Will Skyfall be as bad as the last two Bond films?

osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
It certainly can't be as bad as Quantum of Solace.
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  • jasper_lamar_crabbjasper_lamar_crabb Posts: 169MI6 Agent
    Let's hope so, given that the last two films were the best the series offered in 20 years, with Casino Royale in particular being one of the great Bond films.

    The Craig era has been so refreshing after the banality and mediocrity of the Brosnan films.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    This is all a matter of personal taste. Casino Royale, to my mind, is one of the best films in the series; and, while QoS is nowhere near is good as CR, I'd put it more in the middle of the pack. So. . .in my never-humble opinion, Skyfall does not need to atone for the "sins" of the two previous films--I hope it builds upon what we all love about Bond and that it stands on its own as a great movie.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    edited July 2012
    Let's hope so, given that the last two films were the best the series offered in 20 years, with Casino Royale in particular being one of the great Bond films.

    The Craig era has been so refreshing after the banality and mediocrity of the Brosnan films.


    I think Craig is certainly better than Brosnan, and Casino Royale was better than the Brosnan films. But I don't think it is as good as the classic Connery ones.
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    This is all a matter of personal taste. Casino Royale, to my mind, is one of the best films in the series; and, while QoS is nowhere near is good as CR, I'd put it more in the middle of the pack. So. . .in my never-humble opinion, Skyfall does not need to atone for the "sins" of the two previous films--I hope it builds upon what we all love about Bond and that it stands on its own as a great movie.


    I can't agree that QoS is in the middle of the pack. It was truly awful.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    How about some constructive discussion and not throwing half-sentences on the board.

    Osris: So you don't like Quantum and you don't like CR.
    Why?
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Moore ThanMoore Than EnglandPosts: 3,173MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    This is all a matter of personal taste. Casino Royale, to my mind, is one of the best films in the series; and, while QoS is nowhere near is good as CR, I'd put it more in the middle of the pack. So. . .in my never-humble opinion, Skyfall does not need to atone for the "sins" of the two previous films--I hope it builds upon what we all love about Bond and that it stands on its own as a great movie.

    I agree wholeheartedly except to say Quantum of Solace is nearer the bottom of the pack in my case. I've been following the production of Skyfall quite closely and I have the same kind of positive vibe that I felt before Casino Royale, and that turned out rather well.
    Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,755MI6 Agent
    My goodness is this a very subjective, loaded thread.
    All I can say, after viewing both the teaser trailer and new full trailer both in IMAX is that it does appear that "Skyfall" may deliver the goods.
    Now what the goods are can be highly subjective. I agree pretty much 100% with Hardyboy and I get the feeling that EON, Sony, and MGM are really pushing "Skyfall" to be a huge, huge megahit; sort of the reboots "Goldfinger".
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    this a very subjective, loaded thread.

    Aren't they all, as they all come from our own opinions. ;)

    I recall reading from one Craig fan that he was the ONLY actor to of been able to play
    the torture scene in CR. Really ?
    Connery couldn't of done a decent job or Dalton ?

    WE all state our own opinions as FACTS.

    As for Skyfall. I'm no Craig fan, to me he's OK but no great shakes ( Can't see the Great Actor
    in him his Fans see, Then again mabey I'm wrong, just can't see it ).
    Casino Royale was a Great Film, nicley shot and a Good script, a little too long for my liking
    could of cut around fifteen minutes off it, But still a great film.
    Then came QOS. :#
    The script ( back to just my opinion territory ;) ) was bad, really BAD. the camera work and editing
    was frantic and so fast Many couldn't tell WTF was going on. To me it's simply a badly made movie, as
    if they decided to get the bourne crew in to do a Transporter film and have the script written by the cast
    and crew of Desperate housewives, while letting the lead actor and Director to change it as they liked.
    I feel many dislike QOS because Many of us ( There I go speaking for others again ) Don't even
    regard it as a Bond Film.
    Now after all the scarcasm comes SKYFALL.

    Even after all that I've written, I'll forgive them QOS. ( Isin't that big of me ) :D
    If SF turns out even half as good as it's looking to be, Mabey it's a bit of Fan euphoria
    on my part, But Given that at the conference everyone kept mentioning CR. I'm hopping
    they've dropped the shakey camera work have worked on a decent script and have given
    Bond a decent villian to go after.
    From clips from various trailers etc, I get the feeling they Might of got the mix right to
    keep the films hard edged, More realistic yet keeping some of the more traditional elements
    for old dinos like me.
    so,

    Will Skyfall be as bad as the last two Bond films?

    No I'm hopping it will be Much better, Fingers crossed it will be 1977 all over again with BOND
    Being one of the biggest hits of the year.
    Who Knows even I might become a Craig fan, after All. :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
    No I'm hopping

    No wonder you couldn't understand QoS with all that hopping....put your other foot down and take a break :D
    YNWA 97
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Damn my iratic typing. :))
    Explains why I found the camera work so Shaky ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Gawd dayem, I thought I was opinionistic!

    I personally loved CR, it was a fresh start and certainly what the franchise needed after DAD.

    Yes we all say brosnan films weren't as good. This WASN'T brosnan's fault, he was given crap scripts, and with DAD, a weirdo director. Started great with GE but things started to slide with TWINE, IMO.

    Anyway, enough of brossa.

    In reply to the wholly negative and opinionated thread question/title;

    CR and QoS were certainly by no means 'bad'. Ok, so due to the writers strike, DC and MF had to tinker with the QoS script and things didn't go well, neither did the editing. But it wasn't as dire as osris insinuates.

    If Skyfall gets bad reviews I'll eat my Aston Martin cap. Seriously. There's things in there for everyone and I'll be highly surprised if the majority are disappointed with it.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
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  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    Wow! That subject title was so loaded that even TP had to speak out in defense of the Craig Bonds! (sort of). I mean come on, man! Why lead with assumption that the last TWO Bond movies were universally viewed as bad? (Casino Royale was certainly not viewed that way by and large). Could we try for a little more subtlety and nuance next time? Perhaps the title of your thread should have been - "I hated Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, and expect to hate Skyfall as well. How about you?
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    How about some constructive discussion and not throwing half-sentences on the board.

    Osris: So you don't like Quantum and you don't like CR.
    Why?

    Sorry for being provocative.

    I don’t like Quantum for the same reasons as Thunderpussy doesn’t:

    “The script (back to just my opinion territory ) was bad, really BAD. the camera work and editing
    was frantic and so fast Many couldn't tell WTF was going on. To me it's simply a badly made movie, as if they decided to get the bourne crew in to do a Transporter film and have the script written by the castand crew of Desperate housewives, while letting the lead actor and Director to change it as they liked.”

    And most of the criticisms I’ve read of the film have been along those lines, and I can’t find too many good reviews of it.

    I don’t like Casino Royale because, like Quantum, it is not really a Bond movie to me. Yes, it has more of a link to them than Quantum, but not much. I don’t think it is even that near to the Fleming novel in attitude, style or sophistication.

    Although Craig is the best all round actor the series has had, he plays Bond more in the way Richard Burton would have played him: too brooding and sullen. Craig would make an excellent Alec Leamas in a remake of The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, as would Russell Crowe, I think. Bath actors not only look like Burton but also share his screen persona.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I used to hate TMWTGG, for similar reasons, thought it was a really poor outing for 007. Yet now
    I have a lot of affection for it. So mabey QOS will grow on me over time,I've reached the stage that
    I do think it's better than NSNA. :))
    Although whats done is done, QOS is out there you either have to ignore it or accept it as is,
    warts and all. :# From what little I've seen ( badly filmed 2nd trailer etc ) I'm excited by the new
    film. I do think they'll get back to a more CR type film, seemes to be a slightly lighter touch and
    they've had plenty of time to put out a good script.
    IMHO I feel the producers where stung by the mixed reviews of QOS after the universally good
    reviews for CR, so I fully expect Skyfall to be another well made and filmed movie. It has a good cast
    with the DP from CR returning so it should look good.
    As with a cheeky child I can forgive the Bond series anything, and I'm looking forward to the release
    of SF. :007)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • zaphodzaphod Posts: 1,183MI6 Agent
    Wow! That subject title was so loaded that even TP had to speak out in defense of the Craig Bonds! (sort of). I mean come on, man! Why lead with assumption that the last TWO Bond movies were universally viewed as bad? (Casino Royale was certainly not viewed that way by and large). Could we try for a little more subtlety and nuance next time? Perhaps the title of your thread should have been - "I hated Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, and expect to hate Skyfall as well. How about you?

    Good call. That at least would have been clear rather than the attempt to smuggle opinion in as fact. Of course it's all opinion, it's the assumption that is wrong. Otherwise how can you account for someone (like me) who loved CR yet find QOS to be almost unwatchable. it gets even more complicated when you factor in how it's possible to rate CR really highly and yet still have reservations re DC ( he has grown on me overtime) I doubt however that many can like QOS and have issues with DC as it seemed like such a DC vehicle/show ( a little like LTK and Dalton)
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    HowardB wrote:
    All I can say, after viewing both the teaser trailer and new full trailer both in IMAX is that it does appear that "Skyfall" may deliver the goods.


    I just saw the trailer on YouTube and it looks awful...just like any other generic action movie. Maybe it's just a bad trailer, and the movie will be better.
  • jasper_lamar_crabbjasper_lamar_crabb Posts: 169MI6 Agent
    osris wrote:
    I just saw the trailer on YouTube and it looks awful...just like any other generic action movie.
    It is impossible for anyone to make such a judgment based on the small amount of footage presented in the trailer, so I don't know why anybody would attempt to express disgust with it.

    I will also add that Casino Royale in particular is objectively one of the best films of the series, regardless of how much one enjoys or hates the experience of watching it.
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    osris wrote:
    I just saw the trailer on YouTube and it looks awful...just like any other generic action movie.
    It is impossible for anyone to make such a judgment based on the small amount of footage presented in the trailer, so I don't know why anybody would attempt to express disgust with it.

    I will also add that Casino Royale in particular is objectively one of the best films of the series, regardless of how much one enjoys or hates the experience of watching it.



    All I said was that the trailer was bad. I did say that the film might not be bad.

    I don't understand how any film can be "objectively one of the best". I would think all opinions of art are subjective. Only science can be objective.
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    QOS is no better than any Broz movie, though better than all Rog's with the exception of SPY. It's better than SC's last three (of seven).

    CR is classic Bond. Better than TLD, though not LTK, nor Sean's first four nor OHMSS.

    DoubtT SKYFALL will beat any of those, though as I've not seen it I'll give it a chance.

    Does that make MY position clear????
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    I think fact and opinion are getting blurred here.

    It's all down to personal taste. None of us have seen enough to judge how the film will fare and if it'll be better/worse than what we thought CR/QoS was like.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
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  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    I agree that the trailer looks terrible. . .because all I saw was a pirated version taken from a cellphone camera, with garbled sound and people's heads covering 2/3rds of the screen.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • zaphodzaphod Posts: 1,183MI6 Agent
    osris wrote:
    osris wrote:
    I just saw the trailer on YouTube and it looks awful...just like any other generic action movie.
    It is impossible for anyone to make such a judgment based on the small amount of footage presented in the trailer, so I don't know why anybody would attempt to express disgust with it.

    I will also add that Casino Royale in particular is objectively one of the best films of the series, regardless of how much one enjoys or hates the experience of watching it.



    All I said was that the trailer was bad. I did say that the film might not be bad.

    I don't understand how any film can be "objectively one of the best". I would think all opinions of art are subjective. Only science can be objective.

    Now we are getting into deep deep water...semiotics and aesthetic principles. There are standards for critique of Art but they fall short of 'objective' it also turns out that science is always mediated by cultural and socio- economic filters and may struggle to be as 'objective' as it would like or have us believe.That said I think to claim objective standards for a view is a bit much. Certainly not without much more argument than ' because I say so'
  • zaphodzaphod Posts: 1,183MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    I agree that the trailer looks terrible. . .because all I saw was a pirated version taken from a cellphone camera, with garbled sound and people's heads covering 2/3rds of the screen.


    I did see enough to be really keen to see more
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    The problem, friend, is that you started with the premise that the last two Bond films were bad. I know you explained that you are only stating your opinion, but again the title to your thread doesn't read that way. So it's no surprise that one would assume that not only do you believe the Skyfall trailer looks bad (an opinion I do not share), but that because of your obvious dislike of Daniel Craig's Bond, you think the movie will be bad as well. It's called bias, and it seems that's what's at play in this case. Perhaps I'm wrong, and certainly you are entitled to your views, but that is certainly the way your views are coming across to me, and apparently to several others who have read your posts
    osris wrote:
    osris wrote:
    I just saw the trailer on YouTube and it looks awful...just like any other generic action movie.
    It is impossible for anyone to make such a judgment based on the small amount of footage presented in the trailer, so I don't know why anybody would attempt to express disgust with it.

    I will also add that Casino Royale in particular is objectively one of the best films of the series, regardless of how much one enjoys or hates the experience of watching it.



    All I said was that the trailer was bad. I did say that the film might not be bad.

    I don't understand how any film can be "objectively one of the best". I would think all opinions of art are subjective. Only science can be objective.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,755MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    I agree that the trailer looks terrible. . .because all I saw was a pirated version taken from a cellphone camera, with garbled sound and people's heads covering 2/3rds of the screen.

    Looked a little better on a 70ft wide IMAX screen :))
    Just an aside: the other trailers shown at the IMAX of note w/ TDKR were "The Bourne Legacy", "The Hobbit", some Disney "Wizard of Oz" prequel and a teaser for the new Superman film "Man of Steel". "Skyfall" was the only one that actually grabbed the attention of and quieted down a pretty rambunctious packed house.
  • 001001 ClassifiedPosts: 68MI6 Agent
    If anything, Skyfall seems to be acknowledging the early days of 007. All I've seen of it are Bond in classic form. Istanbul, 90% of his wardrobe is suits, the DB5, and even Mendes said that a piece of the film was designed to feel like it came straight out of the 60's. It's shaping up to be a very good addition to the series, IMHO.
    -{
    001.gif
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Hardyboy wrote:
    This is all a matter of personal taste. Casino Royale, to my mind, is one of the best films in the series; and, while QoS is nowhere near is good as CR, I'd put it more in the middle of the pack. So. . .in my never-humble opinion, Skyfall does not need to atone for the "sins" of the two previous films--I hope it builds upon what we all love about Bond and that it stands on its own as a great movie.

    Well said, my learned colleague {[]
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    The problem, friend, is that you started with the premise that the last two Bond films were bad. I know you explained that you are only stating your opinion, but again the title to your thread doesn't read that way. So it's no surprise that one would assume that not only do you believe the Skyfall trailer looks bad (an opinion I do not share), but that because of your obvious dislike of Daniel Craig's Bond, you think the movie will be bad as well. It's called bias, and it seems that's what's at play in this case. Perhaps I'm wrong, and certainly you are entitled to your views, but that is certainly the way your views are coming across to me, and apparently to several others who have read your posts
    osris wrote:
    It is impossible for anyone to make such a judgment based on the small amount of footage presented in the trailer, so I don't know why anybody would attempt to express disgust with it.

    I will also add that Casino Royale in particular is objectively one of the best films of the series, regardless of how much one enjoys or hates the experience of watching it.



    All I said was that the trailer was bad. I did say that the film might not be bad.

    I don't understand how any film can be "objectively one of the best". I would think all opinions of art are subjective. Only science can be objective.



    What’s wrong with having a point of view (“bias”, as you term it)? Do I have to like Craig’s Bond to comment on QoS or CR? Most people are divided on the quality of QoS, anyway, so what I’ve said is hardly controversial.

    The trailer for Skyfall, to me, just seemed very bland. There was nothing in it that spelled out it was a Bond film. It could have been a trailer for any spy-based thriller, like Bourne etc. And the action clips (what few were shown, and lasting only seconds) seemed run of the mill.

    Maybe the film might be better, but the trailer certainly gives no indication of this, or at least the trailer I saw on YouTube. Maybe the Imax version some people saw is better, I haven’t seen it.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agreat man once said ( I think it was me ) :)
    We all join AJB with fixed ideas and hardly ever change our minds.
    Luckily I have no mind to change. :))
    Fans of the reboot love the new movies and direction they're taking. and Good for them. -{
    Others,
    Dislike it and are unhappy about the new direction. -{ and good for them too.
    I'm somewhere in the middle, as I dislike both Groups. and am secretly working on a take over of AJB
    I have many sleepers in place ( usually reading one of my posts turns people asleep ) soon on my
    Command they will make their move, and Absolutely Roger Moore will rise. :))

    I'm getting really mixed up as a Bond fan.
    I don't like Craig as Bond But Liked the trailer and feel excited about Skyfall.
    I should be slagging it off and saying how Bad Craig looks etc, But I can't.
    I'm feeling really good about it so far and hope ( I've stopped hopping, for now ) :#
    That it's going to hit the ball out of the park, and that's from watching a crappy
    pirate copy of the 2nd trailer. So I should be ecsatic when the proper One is released.
    I'm in my Happy place right now and I'm of to hug a kitten and listen to some
    Kenny G. :007)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Ens007Ens007 EnglandPosts: 863MI6 Agent
    The problem, friend, is that you started with the premise that the last two Bond films were bad. I know you explained that you are only stating your opinion, but again the title to your thread doesn't read that way. So it's no surprise that one would assume that not only do you believe the Skyfall trailer looks bad (an opinion I do not share), but that because of your obvious dislike of Daniel Craig's Bond, you think the movie will be bad as well. It's called bias, and it seems that's what's at play in this case. Perhaps I'm wrong, and certainly you are entitled to your views, but that is certainly the way your views are coming across to me, and apparently to several others who have read your posts

    Sums up my thoughts too ^^

    When I first read the thread title, I thought that this was going to be a veiled attempt at Craig bashing or just some good old fashioned WUMMING ... each to their own of course with views about the films, as that is what this great forum is all about. However as has been alluded to elsewhere here, the apparent bluntness of the thread title has probably provoked some of the 'negative' reactions.

    I personally can't wait to see the full trailer, as the teaser more than wetted my appetite.
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