Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I once wrote in another post that I believed that when Fleming was coming up with what Bond looked like, he fell upon Carmichael because he looked similar to his brother Peter, and if fact, he envied his brother who did the tough, adventurous kind of things Bond did and he would not. Carmichael was famous and most knew what he looked like, as opposed to Fleming and his brother.
As for Niven, he and Fleming were friends (they both belonged to the same club and met during the war). It was only natural for him to suggest Niven as he knew him and had seen his films. Niven himself was in the army before WWII, then rejoined during the war and was an officer in the Commandoes. He took part in the Invasion of Normandy, although he was sent to France several days after D-Day. He served in the "Phantom Signals Unit" called the GHQ Liaison Regiment, which located and reported enemy positions, and kept rear commanders informed on changing battle lines. As you see, though he may have played a lot of light comedy and most audiences know him today for that and his great wit, he actually had the wartime background that Fleming admired (being a part of the Commandoes) and despite his un-rugged good looks and mustache, Fleming could see him as Bond. Thankfully, Niven was too old for the part by the time Fleming was trying to get his stories made into films.
I had a problem with Craig's look as well when he first appeared, but his tougher peformances got me past that. I wished he'd dyed his hair for the role (he IS an actor playing a character who's supposed to have black hair), but, that ship has sailed. It's intersting though in this photo I found of him he looks like a young Bond (I put him next to a profile of Fleming).
For me, Bond has always been more than a hair colour, a specific height, or the literary scar on the character's cheek. IMO, it's the spirit and intent of the portrayal. Dalton was very good, but the producers attempted to 'have their cake and eat it too,' inasmuch as Dalton's Bond was forced to deal with some awkwardly 'shoed-in' humour, which didn't serve the franchise well. By the next time they'd gotten up the nerve to do it, Eon finally had the legal rights to the CR novel, and thus seemed motivated to really take a chance, and I believe it's paid off nicely.
Craig's Bond, like Fleming's literary Bond, takes a physical beating. This isn't just about raised eyebrows and ironic smiles; not anymore.
But in that case I wonder what you think about the "scratch my balls" line in CR. Is that very 'Fleming'? Or is this more the raised eyebrows and ironic smiles you both seem to hate....
The "scratch my balls" line isn't my favourite one in the piece, that's for sure. I much prefer: "To the right! To the right!"
Craigger isn't so much the Second Coming of Timothy Dalton, in my opinion, as he is the driver of a high-performance machine that is finally in tune with itself. Dalton was such a welcome change for me, when he came along, that it was easy to forgive the residual silliness that clung to his films like remoras on a shark. The humour in the Craig films (which is there! ) works for me within the context of the stories being told. I trust SF will be much the same.
We all can (and will) disagree on the good and bad points of the Craig Era, but in my opinion his films are more 'Fleming,' and at least they know exactly what they're about. It's a James Bond I'd been waiting all my life to see :007)
The humour in the Craig films (which is there! ) works for me within the context of the stories being told. I trust SF will be much the same.
We all can (and will) disagree on the good and bad points of the Craig Era, but in my opinion his films are more 'Fleming,' and at least they know exactly what they're about. It's a James Bond I'd been waiting all my life to see :007) (...)
One of the best quotes in any Bond movie to me is "Hmfhnmhimf.... I said you are a bloody idiot!" That is pure Bond to me, I don't know why.
For me, Bond has always been more than a hair colour, a specific height, or the literary scar on the character's cheek. IMO, it's the spirit and intent of the portrayal. Dalton was very good, but the producers attempted to 'have their cake and eat it too,' inasmuch as Dalton's Bond was forced to deal with some awkwardly 'shoed-in' humour, which didn't serve the franchise well. By the next time they'd gotten up the nerve to do it, Eon finally had the legal rights to the CR novel, and thus seemed motivated to really take a chance, and I believe it's paid off nicely.
Craig's Bond, like Fleming's literary Bond, takes a physical beating. This isn't just about raised eyebrows and ironic smiles; not anymore.
But in that case I wonder what you think about the "scratch my balls" line in CR. Is that very 'Fleming'? Or is this more the raised eyebrows and ironic smiles you both seem to hate....
A friend of mine was in a special forces unit and had "resistance to interrogation" training. He told me something interesting his instructors said: if you manage to see something funny in the situation or the interrogators you have pretty much won. Perhaps that's what Bond does in that scene?
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
A friend of mine was in a special forces unit and had "resistance to interrogation" training. He told me something interesting his instructors said: if you manage to see something funny in the situation or the interrogators you have pretty much won. Perhaps that's what Bond does in that scene?
Interesting, I must admit that was the impression I got from the scene - Bond knew he was for the chop but still resolutely would not give in. Le Chiffre's desperate frustration with Bond and then White reflects this too.
Craig's Bond is his own animal. CR proved that. All the actors who have played Bond their own way and that why I have enjoyed all of them too. Craig is my favorite by a nose though, simply because he puts the psychology into the character along with the physical menace. Ie, his version is slightly unhinged, - you see the mental war he wages with himself when he kills someone. He surrounds himself with the decent things in life to compensate for the killing and the risk of being killed, and the dark mental scars that can carry - like his literary counterpart. Its also good that (QoS aside) its a solid take on the character that uses the right elements from the books, without relying on them.
I agree with Loeffelholz's post (24) Bond is about the man and who he is - not his height, hair colour or tailor's label.
As to Mr Fleming's Bond sketch, looks more like a young Sir Roger to me, when he was Simon Templar in The Saint!
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
While Craig's Bond and Dalton's Bond has certain similarities, I don't think of Craig's Bond as the "second coming of Dalton" for one reason: Craig's Bond is more physical. Perhaps it was because Craig's Bond came in the same era as the very successful Jason Bourne films, but nonetheless I think there is such a thing as too much. Fleming's Bond wasn't like that. He wasn't in fights every hour. He had a slim physique. That's not to mention the fact that Craig doesn't look anything like Fleming's Bond ...
I feel like Craig has added a lot of good aspects to the character of James Bond, but he just lacks the personality, soul and versatility of Dalton. Dalton could play the dark gritty Bond very well, but also, smile and ride on a ferris wheel with a teddy bear the next moment.
I feel like Craig has added a lot of good aspects to the character of James Bond, but he just lacks the personality, soul and versatility of Dalton. Dalton could play the dark gritty Bond very well, but also, smile and ride on a ferris wheel with a teddy bear the next moment.
You could tell he wasn't comfortable in those scenes, but on the other hand neither would craig! )
I feel like Craig has added a lot of good aspects to the character of James Bond, but he just lacks the personality, soul and versatility of Dalton. Dalton could play the dark gritty Bond very well, but also, smile and ride on a ferris wheel with a teddy bear the next moment.
But smiling and Laughing on a Roller Coaster wouldn't fit Craig's Bond very well.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Craig is my favorite by a nose though, simply because he puts the psychology into the character along with the physical menace. Ie, his version is slightly unhinged, - you see the mental war he wages with himself when he kills someone. He surrounds himself with the decent things in life to compensate for the killing and the risk of being killed, and the dark mental scars that can carry - like his literary counterpart.
Although I like some elements of that, he did seem too traumatised in Skyfall. Obviously not being a spy myself I can't say for sure, but spies have to lead a double life, whereas Craig's Bond's is too mentally unstable to pass as normal. It's interesting that his interpretation feels more like a soldier with war wounds.
Craig is similar to Dalton in the sense that both made the character darker and more human, but Dalton's Bond is a playboy with a nasty streak, seemingly quite good at making friends and is sociable, whereas Craig's Bond looks more ill-at-ease with people.
DC in in a different league to Dalton, he is a better actor and does the action scenes brilliantly, he can be tender with the ladies one minute and killing people without a care the next.
But in that case I wonder what you think about the "scratch my balls" line in CR. Is that very 'Fleming'? Or is this more the raised eyebrows and ironic smiles you both seem to hate....
It's a bit cheesy but it's showing that Bond is able to withstand the pain. I believe in the novel Bond's issue is the pauses between the pain; if it's a continuous pain, he can break past it- a bit like with running, where there's apparantly a moment where you've pushed yourself so hard that it becomes euphoric (a 'sexual twilight' apparantly, in the novel).
Dalton: a highly intense Bond, and some may claim that he was too intense for his own good. However, he could also be effective with the humor and had a peculiar charm to him. He has some great quotes, such as:
"You want it, you keep it, old buddy!"
"Salt corrosion."
"Correct. You should have brought lillies."
"Compliments of Sharky!"
"Stuff my orders. I only kill professionals. (...) Whoever she was, I must've scared the living daylights out of her!"
A great Bond who could've been in more 007 films, but what happened, happened.
Craig: He seems to be perceived as a sort of Dalton 2.0, but I don't quite see that. Yes, like Dalton, the man does his own stunts, but he's nowhere near as intense and lacks quotability, something that was a strong suit of Dalton. He has some quotes here and there, but it just isn't the same. Having said this, his performance in SP impressed me quite a bit, but it's unlikely that I'll ever like him as much as Connery, Moore, Dalton, or Brozzer.
So yeah, to me they are 2 very different Bonds, and I don't see much resemblance between their portrayals.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I suppose one could argue that both actors based their characterization on the Bond of the books. Dalton outright admitted that's where he got his inspiration from. Craig has the hard edge and cold eyes, although I have yet to see an interview where describes his process of portraying Bond in any detail.
Moore admitted he skimmed thru the books and based his Bond on the fact that Fleming's Bond didn't really like killing.
Dalton and Craig, though I see few similarities in performance. Interestingly enough, there are many subtle character traits from the books we don't really see on film. For example, Fleming's Bond is constantly eating scrambled eggs, smokes 70 cigarettes a day and begins his day with 20 pushups. I could picture Craig doing the pushups and Dalton ordering eggs while lunching with Felix Leiter. Dalton's Bond certainly smoked as well.
For me, both Bonds are different approaches to bringing Fleming's Bond to life.
Comments
Certainly not!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
As for Niven, he and Fleming were friends (they both belonged to the same club and met during the war). It was only natural for him to suggest Niven as he knew him and had seen his films. Niven himself was in the army before WWII, then rejoined during the war and was an officer in the Commandoes. He took part in the Invasion of Normandy, although he was sent to France several days after D-Day. He served in the "Phantom Signals Unit" called the GHQ Liaison Regiment, which located and reported enemy positions, and kept rear commanders informed on changing battle lines. As you see, though he may have played a lot of light comedy and most audiences know him today for that and his great wit, he actually had the wartime background that Fleming admired (being a part of the Commandoes) and despite his un-rugged good looks and mustache, Fleming could see him as Bond. Thankfully, Niven was too old for the part by the time Fleming was trying to get his stories made into films.
I had a problem with Craig's look as well when he first appeared, but his tougher peformances got me past that. I wished he'd dyed his hair for the role (he IS an actor playing a character who's supposed to have black hair), but, that ship has sailed. It's intersting though in this photo I found of him he looks like a young Bond (I put him next to a profile of Fleming).
Amen!
One of the best quotes in any Bond movie to me is "Hmfhnmhimf.... I said you are a bloody idiot!" That is pure Bond to me, I don't know why.
A friend of mine was in a special forces unit and had "resistance to interrogation" training. He told me something interesting his instructors said: if you manage to see something funny in the situation or the interrogators you have pretty much won. Perhaps that's what Bond does in that scene?
Interesting, I must admit that was the impression I got from the scene - Bond knew he was for the chop but still resolutely would not give in. Le Chiffre's desperate frustration with Bond and then White reflects this too.
Craig's Bond is his own animal. CR proved that. All the actors who have played Bond their own way and that why I have enjoyed all of them too. Craig is my favorite by a nose though, simply because he puts the psychology into the character along with the physical menace. Ie, his version is slightly unhinged, - you see the mental war he wages with himself when he kills someone. He surrounds himself with the decent things in life to compensate for the killing and the risk of being killed, and the dark mental scars that can carry - like his literary counterpart. Its also good that (QoS aside) its a solid take on the character that uses the right elements from the books, without relying on them.
I agree with Loeffelholz's post (24) Bond is about the man and who he is - not his height, hair colour or tailor's label.
As to Mr Fleming's Bond sketch, looks more like a young Sir Roger to me, when he was Simon Templar in The Saint!
I agree with this , Dalton is a Shakespeare actor, while Craig is just an athlete, for me, there's no comparison at all between them
Personally, Roger Moore is my least favourite Bond, but not because of his hair colour, which is a fair bit darker than Craig's.
Noooooooooooo!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
agree 100%
James Bond- Licence To Kill
I feel like Craig has added a lot of good aspects to the character of James Bond, but he just lacks the personality, soul and versatility of Dalton. Dalton could play the dark gritty Bond very well, but also, smile and ride on a ferris wheel with a teddy bear the next moment.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
But smiling and Laughing on a Roller Coaster wouldn't fit Craig's Bond very well.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Although I like some elements of that, he did seem too traumatised in Skyfall. Obviously not being a spy myself I can't say for sure, but spies have to lead a double life, whereas Craig's Bond's is too mentally unstable to pass as normal. It's interesting that his interpretation feels more like a soldier with war wounds.
Craig is similar to Dalton in the sense that both made the character darker and more human, but Dalton's Bond is a playboy with a nasty streak, seemingly quite good at making friends and is sociable, whereas Craig's Bond looks more ill-at-ease with people.
The perfect Bond.
It's a bit cheesy but it's showing that Bond is able to withstand the pain. I believe in the novel Bond's issue is the pauses between the pain; if it's a continuous pain, he can break past it- a bit like with running, where there's apparantly a moment where you've pushed yourself so hard that it becomes euphoric (a 'sexual twilight' apparantly, in the novel).
Dalton: a highly intense Bond, and some may claim that he was too intense for his own good. However, he could also be effective with the humor and had a peculiar charm to him. He has some great quotes, such as:
"You want it, you keep it, old buddy!"
"Salt corrosion."
"Correct. You should have brought lillies."
"Compliments of Sharky!"
"Stuff my orders. I only kill professionals. (...) Whoever she was, I must've scared the living daylights out of her!"
A great Bond who could've been in more 007 films, but what happened, happened.
Craig: He seems to be perceived as a sort of Dalton 2.0, but I don't quite see that. Yes, like Dalton, the man does his own stunts, but he's nowhere near as intense and lacks quotability, something that was a strong suit of Dalton. He has some quotes here and there, but it just isn't the same. Having said this, his performance in SP impressed me quite a bit, but it's unlikely that I'll ever like him as much as Connery, Moore, Dalton, or Brozzer.
So yeah, to me they are 2 very different Bonds, and I don't see much resemblance between their portrayals.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Me too. But if John Glen had directed Daniel Craig, I think we would have gotten a similar more human Bond out of Craig.
Moore admitted he skimmed thru the books and based his Bond on the fact that Fleming's Bond didn't really like killing.
Dalton and Craig, though I see few similarities in performance. Interestingly enough, there are many subtle character traits from the books we don't really see on film. For example, Fleming's Bond is constantly eating scrambled eggs, smokes 70 cigarettes a day and begins his day with 20 pushups. I could picture Craig doing the pushups and Dalton ordering eggs while lunching with Felix Leiter. Dalton's Bond certainly smoked as well.
For me, both Bonds are different approaches to bringing Fleming's Bond to life.
Not sure anyone could get anything human out of Craig's acting...