James Bond and smoking in films...

chrisisall

In the early Sixties, Bond smoked quite a bit. Even a comment in YOLT about it being "bad for your chest".
Moore had an occasional cigar.
Dalton brought him back to cigarettes (albeit not constantly).
Brosnan seemed to quit ("filthy habit") until the Cuban cigar in DAD.

What are your views on this?
Personally, I feel the character of Bond is at peace with not living to a ripe old age, indeed, he is contemptuous of death, and indulging in vice is in his nature.
Not a good message for the kids, though.... 8-)

Thoughts?

Loeffelholz

I'd prefer that he smoked (say, seventy a day), but I understand why he doesn't. Smoking is a time-honored cinematic device, a way to slow things down in order for us to watch characters think, and relate to one another. My own Oscar Jade novel series, set in the 1940s, features a private eye who smokes constantly (Lucky Strikes), offers them in conversation, and they're either accepted or rejected...it's part of the milieu. But I've never smoked a single cigarette in my 50 years of life, nor would I.

Times have changed, and it's a pity. Cinematic smoking doesn't, or shouldn't, hurt anyone. People make their own informed or stupid decisions in life, and a character on the big screen shouldn't be ceded that kind of power.

GordoLeiter

I wonder how it would be like if Bond were chew tobacco instead of smoking.

Woman : Who are you?
Bond : Bond *nom nom* Jamesh Bond *spit*

Dutchfinger

I recently found this on the trivia page of Pierce Brosnan's IMDB page:

"It would have been great to light up and smoke cigarettes, for instance. It would have been great to have the killing a little bit more real and not wussed down. It's all rather bland. "

Don't know in what kind of an interview he stated that, but I guess he wanted to do so as well ....
Hell, they already had to put up a smoking warning in the credits of LTK... Even though it was something the Bond from the older movies and the novel's did a lot, it doesn't bother me to much that he doesn't do it anymore in recent films...

GordoLeiter wrote:

I wonder how it would be like if Bond were chew tobacco instead of smoking.

Woman : Who are you?
Bond : Bond *nom nom* Jamesh Bond *spit*

)

DEFIANT 74205

If that's the way he was written by Fleming, then that's the way he is meant to be. If he was written as a character who smokes 70 cigarettes a day, then I'd rather see Bond the way he was written rather than bowing to politically correct pressure from various health groups.

FFS he's a fictional character, and if people can't see that and instead think of him as a role model, then ... 8-)

Napoleon Plural

Well, I disagree, though not strongly.

It's obvious that folk do try to take after Bond, as you can see from the Memorabilia thread where they all try to locate some long lost item of clothing. Okay, that's self-aware, but smoking looks so goddam cool, others will generally pick it up, and those who are trying to quit will find it harder. I like the JD whisky t-shirt you see around, but would not wear it because, well, anyone trying to quit booze will find it harder seeing such a shirt adorned on my hunky body, well, alright, you know what I mean.

Sure Bond smoked in the 60s, they all did back then, it's the Mad Men era. In the same way that back then, men used to box if in the services, and that is reflected in Bond's physique with Connery and Lazenby. Now they look buff and go to the gym, and that is reflected in Craig's look.

It was Campbell who stopped Bond smoking, because it causes cancer. 70 a day Loeffs? That's going some. But some of us see Bond as an aspirational character, others seem him as an interesting somebody else, there is that conflict in interest.

chrisisall

Napoleon Plural wrote:

70 a day Loeffs? That's going some.

There is the visual aspect as well, we shant want to see a character smoking all the time during a film anymore that we'd like to see him eating in every scene- it's just not that interesting. Anyone remember Richard Baseheart smoking in practically EVERY scene in Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea's first series? It was like one long damn cigarette commercial... X-(

GordoLeiter

I always thought a pipe would suit Bond better.....a TOBACCO pipe

chrisisall

GordoLeiter wrote:

I always thought a pipe would suit Bond better.....a TOBACCO pipe

Sherlocks freakin' Holme...?
)

Loeffelholz

Napoleon Plural wrote:

70 a day Loeffs? That's going some. But some of us see Bond as an aspirational character, others seem him as an interesting somebody else, there is that conflict in interest.

Fair enough, but I was quoting a Fleming daily total to make a point. The fellow smoked in the books; he clearly didn't expect to be an old man on an oxygen tank at age 82.

Obviously he can't/shouldn't smoke in every scene, which he would need to do in order to make such a cumulative total 'real.' And my guy doesn't smoke in every scene either. But it's a nice 'go to' at certain moments. An academic debate, to be sure, as the jury's in and Our Hero, 007, doesn't smoke.

JamesBondGuy

I don't think the studio are against showing James Bond smoking, but I don't think it will suit Daniel Craig's James Bond. I see Severine smokes in the Skyfall trailer.

minigeff

Never really thought about a need to have bond smoke.

The whole role model in films is valid though, people do follow films and make decisions based on what their favourite character does, that's why you're reading this....

It's no good saying having bond smoke wouldn't cause people to do it. There's many on here who have Aston Martins, or others who wear Tom bloody Ford, dunghill cufflinks and drink Smirnoff. Would they if bond didn't?

As far as I can see there's no need to see bond smoking. He's got enough daft vices, why throw smoking into the mix?

The thing we have to remember is times have changed, and the bond character changes with them. Smoking is becoming less socially acceptable these days, hence smoking bans and the like. I say each unto their own, if you wanna smoke, fine, but there again, chances are you're not a household name the world over who influences many minds, young and old.

James Suzuki

minigeff wrote:

Never really thought about a need to have bond smoke.

The whole role model in films is valid though, people do follow films and make decisions based on what their favourite character does, that's why you're reading this....

It's no good saying having bond smoke wouldn't cause people to do it. There's many on here who have Aston Martins, or others who wear Tom bloody Ford, dunghill cufflinks and drink Smirnoff. Would they if bond didn't?

As far as I can see there's no need to see bond smoking. He's got enough daft vices, why throw smoking into the mix?

The thing we have to remember is times have changed, and the bond character changes with them. Smoking is becoming less socially acceptable these days, hence smoking bans and the like. I say each unto their own, if you wanna smoke, fine, but there again, chances are you're not a household name the world over who influences many minds, young and old.

Couldn't put iy better, thank you

JamesBondGuy

minigeff wrote:

It's no good saying having bond smoke wouldn't cause people to do it. There's many on here who have Aston Martins, or others who wear Tom bloody Ford, dunghill cufflinks and drink Smirnoff. Would they if bond didn't?

True, but James Bond also kills people, isn't it worse showing than Bond smoking? So if James Bond smokes, I don't think it would make a difference. Drinking alcohol is just as bad in my opinion.

minigeff

JamesBondGuy wrote:

minigeff wrote:

It's no good saying having bond smoke wouldn't cause people to do it. There's many on here who have Aston Martins, or others who wear Tom bloody Ford, dunghill cufflinks and drink Smirnoff. Would they if bond didn't?

True, but James Bond also kills people, isn't it worse showing than Bond smoking? So if James Bond smokes, I don't think it would make a difference. Drinking alcohol is just as bad in my opinion.

No I don't feel bond killing people can be compared to him smoking.

Taking someone else's life is more distant from slowly taking your own.

Sure enough though, there are some out there who do kill after being influenced by a film character, the good people of Colorado know only too well of this. But bear in mind that the majority of these killers are not mentally stable, they have a great problem separating reality from fiction.

I think the main difference is the instantanious situation of taking a life, and also the seriousness of it has that helps people differentiate between it being acceptable or not.

Smoking kills, but very slowly compared to a bullet. Back in 'the day' characters like steve McQueen and james dean looked cool, everyone wanted leather jackets, jeans and a white t shirt, and a fag in their gob. Nowadays we know smoking causes all kinds of issues and deaths, even passively.

Killing however has been known to be fatal pretty much from the year dot. It hasn't got the same image or coolness associated with it, and many killers who copy films and video games don't kill because their favourite character looked cool, but because they believe they had a rational reason, ie 'people are zombies and must be taken out'.

Hope I'm getting my point across here, but I just can't see bond taking out a bad guy comparable to him lighting up.

Bond drinking however is a little closer to smoking. Definitely moreso than killing.

When we see Bond drink, it's usually not it excess. A bourbon with M, a vodka whilst waiting to see who Carver sent, a mint julip with goldfinger. We rarely see bond going out on an all night binge, or putting a traffic cone on M's car in the early hours. However, we have and will see bond hit the bottle to deal with things. Drinking vespers on the plane with Mathis, going 'KIA' in Skyfall. But it's not alcoholism or bond developing a constant need to get sh1tfaced. It's a rarity.

I think it comes down to what's socially acceptable.

Smoking, and drinking are becoming less these days. Not so much with drinking, but there are government campaigns in the UK to advise people to kerb their drinking, watch how much and how often they drink.

On the scale of things, we have drinking, smoking then far far down the line, probably at the end we'd have killing people.

Napoleon Plural

It's intriguing that George Harrison died not of drugs such as acid (he gave that up early on he said, but methinks he had a heroin habit in the early 1970s, you get that sense on Scorcese's DVD doc) but of the cigs, he was a 60 a day man.

I guess cigars are okay for Bond, they're less addictive aren't they? And more celebratory, whereas cigs are just like chomping down on choccie bars for me, just a banality turned necessity thru addiction.

Loeffelholz

All I'll say is that there's no bigger Bond fan than me. I'm 50 years old, and have never smoked a single cigarette. I mourn the loss of self-accountability in modern times. Reminds me of a Bond disclaimer I put together for this site some many years ago; I'm going to try and find it.

We really do pick and choose our fights, don't we? Is Eon liable because Bond drank six Vespers on the plane to Bolivia in the last picture? Hardly moderation. Goodness. They're promoting drunkenness 8-)

minigeff

Loeffelholz wrote:

We really do pick and choose our fights, don't we? Is Eon liable because Bond drank six Vespers on the plane to Bolivia in the last picture? Hardly moderation. Goodness. They're promoting drunkenness 8-)

Oh dear, you missed that bit by the looks of things;

minigeff wrote:

However, we have and will see bond hit the bottle to deal with things. Drinking vespers on the plane with Mathis, going 'KIA' in Skyfall. But it's not alcoholism or bond developing a constant need to get sh1tfaced. It's a rarity.

Anyone who says Bond doesn't influence people is talking out their arse.

Should Bond/EoN/Danjaq/MGM be held accountable? No of course not. I don't think the decision to have bond smoke free was made purely on an accountability matter, like I said I simply think its the character evolving with the times.

I too am a bond fan, and yet I don't drink or smoke, nor do I wear Tom Ford or drive an Aston, or have dunhill cufflinks, but I do have an omega B-)

BIG TAM

Bond's smoking doesn't particularly bother me. Nor does his drinking. Or his rakish seductions. Or his sadistic penchant for chucking people into piranha pools or off rooftops. He's a fictional chap whose characteristics reflect particular periods of time. It's now anathema to take a drag, so Bond refrains. It's a side issue that leaves me neither shaken nor stirred.

Napoleon Plural

I would argue that Bond drinking six Vespers doesn't glamorise drinking because he looks so maudlin and out of it, rather than cool (the point of the scene, not really a dig at Craig). And I guess I'd argue that smoking cigs is worse than drinking alcohol on balance, a winding down at the end of the day drink better for you in moderation that two cigs a day over the decades, less harm on the liver for one than on the lungs for the other; unless you're necking spirits neat I suppose.

And, of course, what you don't get on screen is how cigs make your clothes stink! We've had a ban on smoking in pubs for some years now, and I have to say that I can't imagine how in the old days you'd come back and have to sling your clothes in the laundry basket and slam the lid shut, you couldn't wear the same shirt two days in a row.

From purely a spy's perspective, smelling of cig smoke would mark you out quite a lot, I'd have thought. You notice when someone is heading back into the office after a fag break immediately. Not that driving an Aston Martin DB5 around town is exactly inconspicuous! )