Potentially Great Bond Villains Who Disappoint

BIG TAM

My nomination would be Renard in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH. Okay, I know he turns out to be more of a henchman with Elektra as the main foe, but Renard's an untapped mine of possibilities. It's more galling as in Robert Carlyle they have an actor more than capable of being a true threat to Bond. His Begbie in TRAINSPOTTING, for example, is a truly terrifying creation. Imagine that level of demented mania up against 007.
At the start of the film a big deal is made of Renard's slow demise due to a bullet in his brain. The consequence of which is that he attains greater strength every day until his end. But this is left completely unexploited, as if somewhere along the line everyone just felt it easier to forget it. To have Bond go up against a baddie who is essentially indestructible would be brilliant. Not like the cartoon antics with Jaws, but a real bone-cruncher of a face-off.
Then we have screen time. There's nothing wrong with leaving the villain in the shadows until the big entrance, like Dr. No or Red Grant. These build & build offering tantalising titbits along the way. Indeed, Renard's entrance holds the promise of fireworks. Instead, he turns up from out of some mist like a dodgy episode of STARS IN THEIR EYES & does little except play with a hot rock. Too little, too late.
Finally, he's too sympathetic. He gets a bit of a raw deal, being dumped on by Elektra constantly. One wishes he'd just tell her to stuff her barmy plan. And give Bond a good thump into the bargain. And one shouldn't be wishing that from a Bond villain.
So, all in all, I'm not a fan of Renard. Such a pity. The character offered so much.

Smiert-Spionam

Agreed. Good post!

My vote would go to Koskov. Just a largely disappointing villain, more of a bumbling idiot, and should have been written alot better imo.

On the other side of the coin, I feel Scaramanga, Drax and Zorin were all brilliant villains who deserved slightly better films.

don p

yeh koskov was crap,, but ! so was the jo don baker role,,

great to see him return as CIA though lol,, domonic greene, theres a W***a eh,,

Thunderpussy

I'll have to put a word in for Dominic Greene. On first seeing QOS I was very dissapointed in him.
Thought he was a weak villain, and not very memorable. Although on several more viewings I've
come to the conclusion ( Just My Opinion ) that Probably due to the writers strike His role was
under written, hence apart from a couple of scenes He doesn't have much to do.
I do feel though He had the potential to be a Great Villain, love his Delivery of the "Picked
up an Iron "Line, and He has the "Odd" factor that some of the past Villains had.
If only he'd been given a better plot, Sadly I feel Mathieu Amalric was somewhat under used
in the film, Pitty.

BIG TAM

Agreed. Koskov started out quite well, lulling MI6 into believing he was an affible cove. He should then have turned into a ruthless tyrant with a plan a little more daring than just smuggling diamonds for drugs.
And I agree that Scaramanga, Zorin & Drax deserved slightly better films.

Peppermill

I think Koskov was great. A fantastic slimey villain that fools MI6 for almost half of the film. He even gets Baker to wait with killing Bond. However, I can understand why most people don't like him because he is a bit of a wuss.

Allthough I love TSWLM I think Stomberg could have been worked out beter. Make no mistake, I really like Jurgens in the role.

Golrush007

I will put forward a surprising choice... Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

The Blofeld character of From Russia With Love and Thunderball showed great promise and had a sense of genuine villainy and menace. But when he was fully revealed in YOLT, he seemed to me to be a lot less menacing than I would have expected. I'm not a huge fan of Donald Pleasence's Blofeld, as iconic as he may be. He seems far too camp to be a scary villain. In OHMSS, Telly Savalas' got closer to what I think Blofeld should be, but it still didn't feel quite right in my opinion. And the less said about Charles Gray in DAF the better.

don p

it always struck me odd, that bond didnt really take on the kgb much,, or get into any cold war activity. the closest we seen was from russia with love,, and . bond helping the mujahadeen, but we have a new enemy now,, the talaban, and they are in our countries, caysing havoc, why hasnt the film makers used that, now or in the past,

zaphod

Is nobody going to mention Elliott Carver ! Jonathan Pryce just phoned it in, and the part was underwritten.

Blackleiter

Renard is my top pick also, for the reasons you have stated so well.

BIG TAM wrote:

My nomination would be Renard in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH. Okay, I know he turns out to be more of a henchman with Elektra as the main foe, but Renard's an untapped mine of possibilities. It's more galling as in Robert Carlyle they have an actor more than capable of being a true threat to Bond. His Begbie in TRAINSPOTTING, for example, is a truly terrifying creation. Imagine that level of demented mania up against 007.
At the start of the film a big deal is made of Renard's slow demise due to a bullet in his brain. The consequence of which is that he attains greater strength every day until his end. But this is left completely unexploited, as if somewhere along the line everyone just felt it easier to forget it. To have Bond go up against a baddie who is essentially indestructible would be brilliant. Not like the cartoon antics with Jaws, but a real bone-cruncher of a face-off.
Then we have screen time. There's nothing wrong with leaving the villain in the shadows until the big entrance, like Dr. No or Red Grant. These build & build offering tantalising titbits along the way. Indeed, Renard's entrance holds the promise of fireworks. Instead, he turns up from out of some mist like a dodgy episode of STARS IN THEIR EYES & does little except play with a hot rock. Too little, too late.
Finally, he's too sympathetic. He gets a bit of a raw deal, being dumped on by Elektra constantly. One wishes he'd just tell her to stuff her barmy plan. And give Bond a good thump into the bargain. And one shouldn't be wishing that from a Bond villain.
So, all in all, I'm not a fan of Renard. Such a pity. The character offered so much.

chrisisall

Golrush007 wrote:

the less said about Charles Gray in DAF the better.

I don't get it- why does Charles Gray seem to be so despised here? I wouldn't have cast him myself, but I can respect & even enjoy his take on Blofeld. It's a lot better that the one-note that Donald Pleasance handed us IMO.

Wait, I think I know why...

It's just a jump to the left.
)

chrisisall

don p wrote:

it always struck me odd, that bond didnt really take on the kgb much,, or get into any cold war activity. the closest we seen was from russia with love,, and . bond helping the mujahadeen, but we have a new enemy now,, the talaban, and they are in our countries, caysing havoc, why hasnt the film makers used that, now or in the past,

Personally, I like seeing Bond take on extremely intelligent individuals & organizations, not bands of stupid thugs.
Then there's the Superman factor... Max Fliescher had Superman battling the Nazis. So, if we have such great heroes, why isn't the problem gone? Sometimes real life bad guys are best left to real life warriors; leave the fictional heroes to deal with fictional evildoers.
My opinion, anyway.

GoldenEye85

chrisisall wrote:

Golrush007 wrote:

the less said about Charles Gray in DAF the better.

I don't get it- why does Charles Gray seem to be so despised here? I wouldn't have cast him myself, but I can respect & even enjoy his take on Blofeld. It's a lot better that the one-note that Donald Pleasance handed us IMO.

Wait, I think I know why...

It's just a jump to the left.
)

Hey, Rocky Horror is a great movie, lol.

As for what someone else said. My vote has to go for Carver. Great villain with tons of potential and the actor just fumbles out of the gate.

Since they have rebooted, I want to see them use Valentine as a villain. If he's still alive, I wonder if they could get his actor again?

chrisisall

Jamesbond007571985 wrote:

As for what someone else said. My vote has to go for Carver. Great villain with tons of potential and the actor just fumbles out of the gate.

IMO, Carver was THE most realistic OTT villain ever; deception & control of the masses combined with warfare-for-profit is our most imminent threat as a world at this point in history.
It's no wonder then why TND is my absolute favourite Bond movie. -{

Hardyboy

I know a lot of people will want to crucify me for this, but I've always found Christopher Lee's Scaramanga to be a complete dud. Yes, I know there are those who think he's one of the best villains, but I honestly think they're responding to Lee himself (and other villains he's played) and not the harmless character he plays in this film. He likes Bond--he respects Bond--and he's a complete idiot around technology. Real toughness, brilliance, and menace are missing.

chrisisall

Hardyboy wrote:

I know a lot of people will want to crucify me for this, but I've always found Christopher Lee's Scaramanga to be a complete dud.

I think TMWTGG is a loopy mess of sorts, and Lee's villain is half what it could have been, and I totally see your point- however, there's enough else in the film to keep me interested, so it's still my second favourite Moore film.

Dutchfinger

When I read the title of this thread I also immediatly thought of Renard.. Pretty great concept for a villian, however left completly unexplored...

Also, kind of link to this subject.. It just struck me again that the potential of a rather smaller henchman was originally going to be bigger... I once heared that Ricky Jay from TND was going to play a larger role then just be one of Carver's geeks. In real life, he's pretty good at throwing cards, they were originally going to let him do that kind of stuff.. Some scene's were already filmed of him doing that. They proberbly thought it was to silly... (Which kind of makes sense..)

Golrush007

Hardyboy wrote:

I know a lot of people will want to crucify me for this, but I've always found Christopher Lee's Scaramanga to be a complete dud. Yes, I know there are those who think he's one of the best villains, but I honestly think they're responding to Lee himself (and other villains he's played) and not the harmless character he plays in this film. He likes Bond--he respects Bond--and he's a complete idiot around technology. Real toughness, brilliance, and menace are missing.

I get where you are coming from, Hardyboy.

I love Scaramanga when he is just being Scaramanga - ie the smooth assassin. What hurts him as a character is that they tacked on the whole solex thing to his character just so he could have a big hidden base to blow up.

BIG TAM

I like Christopher Lee. One of those actors who naturally exudes menace. But in a way I'd have liked to have seen Jack Palance as Scaramanga more. Even more fearsome in my view.

Napoleon Plural

Brad Whitaker is a good example of almost a good villain, it's interesting in that he's not meant to be iconic and powerful, but a bit vainglorious and self-deceiving. But they don't know how to exploit this, the idea that the main nemesis is a fool still managing to be dangerous and create havoc.

And I don't think Glen exploited the triumverate of villainy in TLD, with Whitaker, the defecter and blond henchman, they don't seem to relate to each other much.

Renard, well, it was probably written for another actor then when it came to casting, forgot to undo all that stuff about him getting stronger. Or perhaps it's a feint, so we think he's the main villain rather than suspecting Electra.

Greene? I had problems with this when the actor said he was basing him on Tony Blair. Now, I find Blair an irritating guy, but he's surely not a conscious villain. It's his righteousness that grates. Greene, well, he should know he's a baddie. Again, writer's strike, but I don't know why they cast an actor like that, as there never is time to give a layered performance. The villain just has to make an impression, like Capone and his white-suited assassin in The Untouchables.

JamesBondGuy

Gustav Graves from DAD is and always will be the most ridiculous villain in my opinion. Brendan Fraser could have played that role much better. )

Manxman

Interestingly, I thought Koskov was a highly effective villain because he was both very understated and subtly repulsive. I imagine him as a man with a very clammy handshake and his habit of invading people's personal space — played very well in several scenes — makes him quite repellent. Also, the character has none of the nobility of the more credible Bond villains who went before (Savalas's Blofeld, Kananga and Scaramanga spring to mind) — he's just a slimy, cowardly bully who will stab those close to him in the back without a moment's hesitation. In this way, the character is much closer to genuinely evil and/or loathsome people I have met in real life.

chrisisall

Manxman wrote:

he's just a slimy, cowardly bully who will stab those close to him in the back without a moment's hesitation. In this way, the character is much closer to genuinely evil and/or loathsome people I have met in real life.

I totally agree. And I feel sorry for those driven to become like that, yet I ALSO see the need to avoid them (kill them in the fictional realm :007) ).
Yeah, I thought he was well acted/presented.