I also bought the highmoor, my issue is that I didn't size down. I washed it in hot water and dried it in heat. It shrunk a bit but the bottom is still big.
I am thinking of waxing it myself with thornproof dressing...
i would argue no. Presumably this jacket will have a different labeled interior (wont be part of the tokito range) and the one bond bore was an original tokito release customised. Barbor didnt specially custom make jacket for the film, the production design took ones and altered them. The originals will have a better pedigree as being closely linked to the film (because thats what bond wore) I wish they wouldnt market it as what he wore on screen because technically, its a copy of an original...as for it being more SA, we might have to wait and see. Again, just what I think
Actually won't the new commander be more of a copy of a Tokito hybrid considering the moving/placement of the buttons by the SF set designers?
If Barbour makes an SA accurate version and sells them for half the price of the Tokito that would be great IMO
no. The team never moved any buttons. The equa-spaced front button fiasco is something barbour did to some of the jackets for a reason no one of us can seem to figure out. All the production team did was remove the zipper that attached the hood and some of the front buttons for the throat latch. I could do everything the production design did and have a SA jacket made from the same materials, boasting the same label and made from the same time period as the film one. These new ones are a modified version of an existing jacket to closer match whats seen but farther from the originals in terms of pedigree. People already know my opinion on this (see the BR thread) but when a company says "limited edition" and even prints the damn statement on the jacket, it should stay that way. The company shouldnt create an almost, 99.9% copy of it and release it to the very same market that the limited edition ones were sold to.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
The thing is though, the LTD Ed label has nothing to do with the Bond screen seen coat, but the design of the original before being modded. It was never released as a Ltd Ed Skyfall coat. This new version is very different from the original as it was meant to be. Bond was never a factor when it was first released, so if they produce another version for the bond community, I don't think many people that bought the original will give a damn as it won't come with any of the extras the original had. It's no different from Omega releasing a Ltd Edition watch and then the same watch to the masses without a 007 hand. The Royal Doulton jack was listed as limited, but now they are making hundreds of them. Many people think it should not have been released as a SKYFALL edition, which is a fair point, but it would still be visually the same dog, which is more than the Barbour edition will be as there are many differences from the first released coat. There's not much to moan about when it comes to the new coat. It's not the same at all.
so because everyone is doing it makes it alright? Sorry, dont buy that argument. Agreed the LTD label has nothing to do with Bond but its the principle of putting it on there in the first place. Companies are saying one thing and doing another. No one can argue that. And it does clearly state "Limited Edition" in my barbour. I would say that the route barbour is taking is that they are following the letter of the law by not re-releasing more tokitos but not the spirit of the law by releasing more jackets that look almost the same and marketing them to the same people. BR just completely ignored their statements here (oh, its a VERY limited edition, a so special run, etc) and then just deleted the limited edition statment from their website which was lower than what Barbour is doing. Apparently every other company associated with Bond is doing this (except for TF, thats why his stuff is so highly regarded and goes for crazy cash) but that still dont make it right.
For instance, California became the first state to regulate the sale of limited edition art prints with the "California Print Law" of 1971 in order to help stop printers from ignoring their stated print runs and just printing as many as they could. Same principle here.
and to restate; the original was a MODDED COAT, not a reissued correct coat lol so doesnt that make the original issues more SA? I think it does.
This is such am interesting debate. My personal stance is that I'm happy to own what I have - a second edition 'original' and I would only want to have that, with it's ( not perfect ) but good pedigree. I actually own two, one is just going to stay in unused condition, with labels and hood etc. May be I'll start wearing it one day if the other one starts to look too old or something happens to it. I just really want to have a back up, as I never want to be without this jacket. The other one, that I wear all the time, I'm going to get the zip and buttons taken off. I don't think I will care about the new one coming out. I guess a lot of us are lucky enough to have these jackets, because we found them early enough, but if I were someone that may be later in the year only just picked up on this stuff, and couldn't find the thing anywhere, I think I'd rather have the new one than nothing at all. And may be it will be cheaper and therefore more accessable for many other fans that would not otherwise be able to benefit from it. I will not worry to much, as I will always be happy in the knowledge that mine is 'more original'. I love how philosophical the whole concept of this jacket has become! Just another reason why it's my number one, above the Menlo and the BR.
"but if I were someone that may be later in the year only just picked up on this stuff, and couldn't find the thing anywhere, I think I'd rather have the new one than nothing at all"
maybe Im just too cutthroat for this forum. if a real fan wanted it, REALLY wanted it, they would have found the forum and pre-ordered one. I put down the cash for mine, same as everyone else and Im not a millionaire by any means. We didnt scale bridges nor did we have the drop over the thousans of people wanting this jacket. We worked for it, we got it so we should keep it. Shoot, it was people on these boards who identified these products (like Szugar on the OB boardshorts). Funny that all these companies began to advertise their products after we did the deligence and showed them that tere was a market.
no. The team never moved any buttons. The equa-spaced front button fiasco is something barbour did to some of the jackets for a reason no one of us can seem to figure out. All the production team did was remove the zipper that attached the hood and some of the front buttons for the throat latch. I could do everything the production design did and have a SA jacket made from the same materials, boasting the same label and made from the same time period as the film one. These new ones are a modified version of an existing jacket to closer match whats seen but farther from the originals in terms of pedigree. People already know my opinion on this (see the BR thread) but when a company says "limited edition" and even prints the damn statement on the jacket, it should stay that way. The company shouldnt create an almost, 99.9% copy of it and release it to the very same market that the limited edition ones were sold to.
Returningson,
Not trying to start an argument with you but buttons aside, if Barbour wants to release an SA spec Skyfall jacket ( by now they have probably procured the rights for it)
I'd presume that would be perfectly legal, ultimately resulting in two very different jackets.
The ''limited edition'' Tokito and the ''Skyfall'' commander.
Barbour is certainly in it for the money, but you still have your ''limited edition'' version. B-)
no. The team never moved any buttons. The equa-spaced front button fiasco is something barbour did to some of the jackets for a reason no one of us can seem to figure out. All the production team did was remove the zipper that attached the hood and some of the front buttons for the throat latch. I could do everything the production design did and have a SA jacket made from the same materials, boasting the same label and made from the same time period as the film one. These new ones are a modified version of an existing jacket to closer match whats seen but farther from the originals in terms of pedigree. People already know my opinion on this (see the BR thread) but when a company says "limited edition" and even prints the damn statement on the jacket, it should stay that way. The company shouldnt create an almost, 99.9% copy of it and release it to the very same market that the limited edition ones were sold to.
Returningson,
Not trying to start an argument with you but buttons aside, if Barbour wants to release an SA spec Skyfall jacket ( by now they have probably procured the rights for it)
I'd presume that would be perfectly legal, ultimately resulting in two very different jackets.
The ''limited edition'' Tokito and the ''Skyfall'' commander.
Barbour is certainly in it for the money, but you still have your ''limited edition'' version. B-)
Ok, really wasnt trying to argue the legalities of the action but as I have repeatedly said its the principle of it. And both jackets are not that different considering both were marketed as JAMES BOND's jacket. Thats it in a nutshell. You cant argue that point. To say otherwise is not true. But you conceded and basically agreed with me that these companies are in it for the money. Screw notions of saying what they mean (and even printing it on a jacket or stating it in bold here on the forum), the pursuit of the almighty dollar just gets me. And the only reason they get away with it is because fans who have a jacket relent and say "well..if this guy wants one too he should get one". I say "no way. If he really was a fan then he would have been in here with the rest of us". And frankly, Im amazed that Im in the minority of people here who feel this way. I dont want to start a hash fest but I also dont want to be fed the same stuff people keep feeding here. That we should be grateful to a company for producing a product that they make a metric ton of money on or that I should feel sorry for the guy who wasnt quick/smart/aware enough to snag one of these jackets. Its all a ploy to ignore a promise made by a buisness to a customer that is very effective.
and to stir the intellectual fire even more, this forum looks down upon and often tries to stop people from simply logging in and trying to sell gear here for twice or three times what they paid. Isnt that what these companies are doing? I mean, its the same principle: Forget any higher, loftier notions and just go after the big dollar. These people's rebuttal arguments are even the same: "Hey, dont hate me. This guy over here wants one so shouldnt he get one?.." Yet no one but me seems to raise any complaints when the companies do it.
i would argue no. Presumably this jacket will have a different labeled interior (wont be part of the tokito range) and the one bond bore was an original tokito release customised. Barbor didnt specially custom make jacket for the film, the production design took ones and altered them. The originals will have a better pedigree as being closely linked to the film (because thats what bond wore) I wish they wouldnt market it as what he wore on screen because technically, its a copy of an original...as for it being more SA, we might have to wait and see. Again, just what I think
Actually won't the new commander be more of a copy of a Tokito hybrid considering the moving/placement of the buttons by the SF set designers?
If Barbour makes an SA accurate version and sells them for half the price of the Tokito that would be great IMO
no. The team never moved any buttons. The equa-spaced front button fiasco is something barbour did to some of the jackets for a reason no one of us can seem to figure out. All the production team did was remove the zipper that attached the hood and some of the front buttons for the throat latch. I could do everything the production design did and have a SA jacket made from the same materials, boasting the same label and made from the same time period as the film one. These new ones are a modified version of an existing jacket to closer match whats seen but farther from the originals in terms of pedigree. People already know my opinion on this (see the BR thread) but when a company says "limited edition" and even prints the damn statement on the jacket, it should stay that way. The company shouldnt create an almost, 99.9% copy of it and release it to the very same market that the limited edition ones were sold to.
Realistically, the "original" that most members have is really a "tokito hybrid" because of the inaccurate button spacing. It's a minor detail, but if we want to be picky...
I think that an official screen accurate jacket is a good idea. The whole argument about "real fans" is a little adolescent IMO. Someone has to be last in line.
dont think adolescents can afford a $700+ jacket (or a $700 peacoat for that matter). No matter juvenile one may think the argument is, it is still a valid one.
Can't say I agree. These pieces of clothing were more then likely old stock, from previous seasons that the majority of people couldn't get. A few lucky ones find some left over stock, and snag it up, and then say "Hey we found the piece, and its last season, and I got the last one." To me, as a fan, that sucks. I'm glad these companies were able to pull out previous seasons stock, and reissue more for more people. That rarely ever happens, especially with companies like Barbour, or Billy Reid. Look at All Saints. They clearly aren't interested in reissuing the proper pants, and getting the SA ones is almost impossible! Yeah it kind of sucks with the "limited" issue, but in all honesty, who really cares when it comes down to it.
We all fork out the cash for a high end, screen accurate piece of clothing, or we get a budget. The hard core fans are going to purchase the high end pieces, and be happy. The people that purchase these, and then try to sell them for double or triple the price back to fans is insane. It is not the same as the companies reissuing more. They are running a business, that's all it comes down to it. I think it's great customer service that they can reissue these so more people can get them. That's my opinion, and as a consumer, AND a fan, I'm glad we have the opportunity to purchase these items.
Well, not to be argumentative and in the spirit of friendly discussion, I don't get what principle is being violated here. Is it just because the original AW11 jacket says "Limited Edition" on the label and now the limit has been expanded? It doesn't say "limited to everyone who bought it before they saw Skyfall"! There was no promise that only pre-2012 To Ki To fans and readers of sites like this one could have the jacket.
Yes, it's not AS limited as it was, but it's not quite unlimited like a can of Coke or an iPhone. They've stopped making the "original" To Ki To Sports Jacket in this incarnation but they could definitely sell more of them if they manufactured more right now. Is the complaint that the collectible value of the original jacket is being diminished by the increased production numbers?
Barbour is a commercial enterprise. They have their staple items that make year after year and sell as many as they can, such as the Bedale waxed jacket. The "Limited Edition" aspect of the Beacon Heritage line, I imagine, is partially necessary because they probably wouldn't sell at bigger numbers at those prices, and perhaps the scarcity aspect is also what allows the prices to be so high. Some of those To Ki To items are, to my untutored eye, pretty ugly and don't seem to be all that hard to find. Others seems to be just as popular as the Sports Jacket was pre-Skyfall. But I don't get the objection to Barbour making more of them once demand for them skyrocketed.
Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they release the Commander but not something very close to or the same as the original Sports Jacket too. Looking at some of the past Beacon Heritage lines (such as this one: http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/01/21/barbour-limited-edition-collection/ ) I would expect several items to come out this fall that aesthetic fans of the Sports Jacket will also like. Will this dilute the feeling of exclusivity that those who have the Sports Jacket now enjoy? Probably, but is that so wrong? Barbour didn't make the original Sports Jacket for "real fans" of James Bond clothing, so it shouldn't be a shock that they would market and sell the jacket to NEW fans who saw the movie and fell in love.
I don't think many adults could afford to spend $700 on a jacket, no matter how much of a fan they may or may not be. I'm not poor by any means, but if not for a fairly substantial Christmas bonus I wouldn't have been able to order myself a jacket when I did. Maybe thinking like this may mean I'm not a real fan, but I wouldn't have been willing to dip into the house fund for a jacket no matter how much I loved it. People have many other expenses and no matter how much they may want something may not have the immediate means to afford it. I'm actually glad there will be a re release of a more screen accurate jacket. It may give some fans that did not have the chance or funds available previously to get this great jacket.
well, sticking to my guns; dont put limited edition on something that wont be. Dont tell us it will be limited and it wont be. Dont rush out an order claiming: This is all we have. No more will be issued and then issue another. Kinda shocked im the only one who feels like this.
A pretty big percentage of the people who comment in this thread wouldn't have a jacket if they hadn't issued more starting in November/December, so yeah, of course we're glad they made more than the original batch. I only found this website because I saw the jacket in the movie and fell in love.
Anyway, just semantics, but it's still a limited edition, they just increased the number (and the number of new batches) that it's been limited to. And the Commander is going to be something different than the original Sports Jacket, but it will make the jackets altered to be SA much less of a rarity. I don't mind. You guys will still be the only ones wearing the right sweater and right jeans dyed to the right color! -{
Don't worry ......to a large extent , I agree with you on this .
I bought my jacket late last Summer when we all found out exactly what it was , and I did the same with the Levi's Menlo .
I was fortunate to be in a position to gain these items when I wanted them , and before the mad rush , and I console myself with the knowledge that I had months of use out of them before Skyfall was even released , and they ARE the originals .
I've even had a few people say (after viewing SkyFall ) that ''James Bond was wearing your jacket'' !!
When the modified re-release comes out , I might start carrying my copy of ''Bond on Set'' everywhere with me , so I can furiously point out my SA button spacing )
well, sticking to my guns; dont put limited edition on something that wont be. Dont tell us it will be limited and it wont be. Dont rush out an order claiming: This is all we have. No more will be issued and then issue another. Kinda shocked im the only one who feels like this.
dont think adolescents can afford a $700+ jacket (or a $700 peacoat for that matter). No matter juvenile one may think the argument is, it is still a valid one.
Adolescents are the ones without mortgages or car payments or children, so generally they're probably in a better shape to buy this stuff than we old folks are... )
I don't recall Barbour making any promises to Bond fans about the To Ki To jacket and its "limited" status. Their limited To Ki To comes with a hood and buttons which we all tore off, and aren't on the new one, so that one's on us.
Frankly, as someone who is saving up for a wedding, along with tuition bills, previous student loan payments, and many other bills, I'm a little offended by anyone saying that "if I was a real Bond fan, I should've just ponied up the $750 or so when we first found out about the jacket." A few years ago I dropped $300 or so on two pairs of Levi Sta Prest, and my hands were practically shaking.
Some of us don't have the money to buy a lot of this stuff, even though we want it with every fiber of our beings. I still consider myself a pretty damn big Bond fan, and I don't consider that a willingness to drain my bank account (and likely enrage my fiance) and necessary step to prove that.
Also, Barbour is a for-profit company. If they weren't doing things to maximize their profits, whoever is in charge should be fired.
Comments
I am thinking of waxing it myself with thornproof dressing...
cool please let me know how that goes.
Actually won't the new commander be more of a copy of a Tokito hybrid considering the moving/placement of the buttons by the SF set designers?
If Barbour makes an SA accurate version and sells them for half the price of the Tokito that would be great IMO
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/40364/reissue-of-barbour-jacket-as-official-accurate-bond-jacket/
For instance, California became the first state to regulate the sale of limited edition art prints with the "California Print Law" of 1971 in order to help stop printers from ignoring their stated print runs and just printing as many as they could. Same principle here.
and to restate; the original was a MODDED COAT, not a reissued correct coat lol so doesnt that make the original issues more SA? I think it does.
maybe Im just too cutthroat for this forum. if a real fan wanted it, REALLY wanted it, they would have found the forum and pre-ordered one. I put down the cash for mine, same as everyone else and Im not a millionaire by any means. We didnt scale bridges nor did we have the drop over the thousans of people wanting this jacket. We worked for it, we got it so we should keep it. Shoot, it was people on these boards who identified these products (like Szugar on the OB boardshorts). Funny that all these companies began to advertise their products after we did the deligence and showed them that tere was a market.
Returningson,
Not trying to start an argument with you but buttons aside, if Barbour wants to release an SA spec Skyfall jacket ( by now they have probably procured the rights for it)
I'd presume that would be perfectly legal, ultimately resulting in two very different jackets.
The ''limited edition'' Tokito and the ''Skyfall'' commander.
Barbour is certainly in it for the money, but you still have your ''limited edition'' version. B-)
I highly recommend Kafka and the service that Robert provided was first class.
I'll certainly shop with them again.
It has the correct buttons, shoulder/elbow material, labels, and fits perfectly.
What size?
I'm 6'2", 210 lbs, 46" chest, 33" waist.
It's a bit tight to get on. I have to make sure I hold onto my shirt/sweater sleeves or they end up around my elbows, but once it's on it fits nicely.
With an XL I'm certain that I would have had to dislocate one of my arms to get the jacket on and I don't really like doing that.
Ok, really wasnt trying to argue the legalities of the action but as I have repeatedly said its the principle of it. And both jackets are not that different considering both were marketed as JAMES BOND's jacket. Thats it in a nutshell. You cant argue that point. To say otherwise is not true. But you conceded and basically agreed with me that these companies are in it for the money. Screw notions of saying what they mean (and even printing it on a jacket or stating it in bold here on the forum), the pursuit of the almighty dollar just gets me. And the only reason they get away with it is because fans who have a jacket relent and say "well..if this guy wants one too he should get one". I say "no way. If he really was a fan then he would have been in here with the rest of us". And frankly, Im amazed that Im in the minority of people here who feel this way. I dont want to start a hash fest but I also dont want to be fed the same stuff people keep feeding here. That we should be grateful to a company for producing a product that they make a metric ton of money on or that I should feel sorry for the guy who wasnt quick/smart/aware enough to snag one of these jackets. Its all a ploy to ignore a promise made by a buisness to a customer that is very effective.
Thanks, good to know you got the correct buttons on the XXL!
Realistically, the "original" that most members have is really a "tokito hybrid" because of the inaccurate button spacing. It's a minor detail, but if we want to be picky...
I think that an official screen accurate jacket is a good idea. The whole argument about "real fans" is a little adolescent IMO. Someone has to be last in line.
We all fork out the cash for a high end, screen accurate piece of clothing, or we get a budget. The hard core fans are going to purchase the high end pieces, and be happy. The people that purchase these, and then try to sell them for double or triple the price back to fans is insane. It is not the same as the companies reissuing more. They are running a business, that's all it comes down to it. I think it's great customer service that they can reissue these so more people can get them. That's my opinion, and as a consumer, AND a fan, I'm glad we have the opportunity to purchase these items.
Yes, it's not AS limited as it was, but it's not quite unlimited like a can of Coke or an iPhone. They've stopped making the "original" To Ki To Sports Jacket in this incarnation but they could definitely sell more of them if they manufactured more right now. Is the complaint that the collectible value of the original jacket is being diminished by the increased production numbers?
Barbour is a commercial enterprise. They have their staple items that make year after year and sell as many as they can, such as the Bedale waxed jacket. The "Limited Edition" aspect of the Beacon Heritage line, I imagine, is partially necessary because they probably wouldn't sell at bigger numbers at those prices, and perhaps the scarcity aspect is also what allows the prices to be so high. Some of those To Ki To items are, to my untutored eye, pretty ugly and don't seem to be all that hard to find. Others seems to be just as popular as the Sports Jacket was pre-Skyfall. But I don't get the objection to Barbour making more of them once demand for them skyrocketed.
Frankly, I'll be a little surprised if they release the Commander but not something very close to or the same as the original Sports Jacket too. Looking at some of the past Beacon Heritage lines (such as this one: http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/01/21/barbour-limited-edition-collection/ ) I would expect several items to come out this fall that aesthetic fans of the Sports Jacket will also like. Will this dilute the feeling of exclusivity that those who have the Sports Jacket now enjoy? Probably, but is that so wrong? Barbour didn't make the original Sports Jacket for "real fans" of James Bond clothing, so it shouldn't be a shock that they would market and sell the jacket to NEW fans who saw the movie and fell in love.
Anyway, just semantics, but it's still a limited edition, they just increased the number (and the number of new batches) that it's been limited to. And the Commander is going to be something different than the original Sports Jacket, but it will make the jackets altered to be SA much less of a rarity. I don't mind. You guys will still be the only ones wearing the right sweater and right jeans dyed to the right color! -{
I bought my jacket late last Summer when we all found out exactly what it was , and I did the same with the Levi's Menlo .
I was fortunate to be in a position to gain these items when I wanted them , and before the mad rush , and I console myself with the knowledge that I had months of use out of them before Skyfall was even released , and they ARE the originals .
I've even had a few people say (after viewing SkyFall ) that ''James Bond was wearing your jacket'' !!
When the modified re-release comes out , I might start carrying my copy of ''Bond on Set'' everywhere with me , so I can furiously point out my SA button spacing
Adolescents are the ones without mortgages or car payments or children, so generally they're probably in a better shape to buy this stuff than we old folks are...
I don't recall Barbour making any promises to Bond fans about the To Ki To jacket and its "limited" status. Their limited To Ki To comes with a hood and buttons which we all tore off, and aren't on the new one, so that one's on us.
Some of us don't have the money to buy a lot of this stuff, even though we want it with every fiber of our beings. I still consider myself a pretty damn big Bond fan, and I don't consider that a willingness to drain my bank account (and likely enrage my fiance) and necessary step to prove that.
Also, Barbour is a for-profit company. If they weren't doing things to maximize their profits, whoever is in charge should be fired.