If there is a market for an item, why shouldn't a store or individual be allowed to profit? I didn't get my degrees and work 40 plus hours a week to not make money in this world.
I was lucky enough to get my jacket for about $10.00. Not considering my time in the equation. I purchased the last one jcrew had from their liquor store in NYC and had it shipped to New Jersey where there is no sales tax. They gave me the 30% discount they offered at the time for a total of $524. Unfortunately the jacket was too small. So, I sold it on eBay. It didn't sell for over $1100 but I was happy with my investment.
The winning bid was enough to cover the first jacket and almost cover the one I got from Kafka for $534 + $52 customs fee. I almost ordered another from jcrew when they had preorders available with the same 30% discount. I figured the market would have been flooded by now but I guess I was wrong about that and could have at least offered it up at retail for a small gain.
The staff at the Barbur stores in NYC were not happy to hear that jcrew was selling them with the 30% off promotion.
I think the question is, what you are up to with the jacket. If you really want to wear it, like most of us I think, the original ToKiTo makes much more sense then the new Commander. It's designed for wet weather, like in Scotland, and you need to have all the flaps and buttons and the hood to feel comfortable. The new Commander Jacket seems to me like a replica (rebuilt something, that was there before). Maybe it is more SA then the ToKiTo, but it will definitely lack of practical value. It's like a very detailed and SA replica of a Walther PPK...if you can't fire it, it never will be a real gun.
I don't like what Billy Reid does with their peacoat. A limitation may justify a higher price. But now they sell the peacoat regularly for the same price. In a way Barbours way is a bit more honest. I don't think (and hope) the ToKiTo comes back again. Instead they make a new one, exactly how the bond-fans want it to be. Supply and Demand...at the end, they all just wan't to make money.
If there is a market for an item, why shouldn't a store or individual be allowed to profit? I didn't get my degrees and work 40 plus hours a week to not make money in this world.
I was lucky enough to get my jacket for about $10.00. Not considering my time in the equation. I purchased the last one jcrew had from their liquor store in NYC and had it shipped to New Jersey where there is no sales tax. They gave me the 30% discount they offered at the time for a total of $524. Unfortunately the jacket was too small. So, I sold it on eBay. It didn't sell for over $1100 but I was happy with my investment.
The winning bid was enough to cover the first jacket and almost cover the one I got from Kafka for $534 + $52 customs fee. I almost ordered another from jcrew when they had preorders available with the same 30% discount. I figured the market would have been flooded by now but I guess I was wrong about that and could have at least offered it up at retail for a small gain.
The staff at the Barbur stores in NYC were not happy to hear that jcrew was selling them with the 30% off promotion.
And we are back to the same arguments again. "Why shouldnt a company make profit"? I have nothing against that, I live in the real world just like the rest of you. However that doesnt override my argument that when company that decides to print Limited Edition on their jacket's lining as well as state in their descriptions of it being released in extremely limited quantities and then decides to just ignore all of that by making more of the same jacket and market it to the same people, thats wrong. Plain and simple.
No one can argue against this. I know people here are just stoked that they got a jacket. Its totally natural and our immediate feelings are to applaud the company for doing so. But in the coming year when thousands of these jackets are floating around I do think that decreases the attractiveness of it. Thats my opinion. Some are fine with this. Others are not. And thats really all it comes down to. I dont feel the need to talk about this further as there is really nothing to be gained.
splitting hairs. Same jacket because its marketed as the Skyfall jacket. So were all the tokitos. When you have two jackets both marketed to the same customer base as being worn by one character, despite tiny differences, they are the same jacket. and please dont state that Barbour didnt market the originals as James bond's jacket. You can see their blog entry where they personally highlight the jacket's involvement in the film.
I agree. Limited edition should be limited. Preferably with a number the item is limited too. I have guns that are valued based on the quantity produced. If HK decided to start selling them again, I would be pissed.
There is also a part of me that does not want anyone else to be able to buy this (or reproduction version) jacket. That's just selfish and narcissistic but oh well.
Anyone tried to make anything to cover the zipper up yet? I was thinking about sewing a strip of similar material to a zipper half to go on the jacket when I'm not using the hood.
Yeah, limited edition should mean limited edition. You pay a premium for that so it is wrong if a company then decides to re-brand and put them out again because initial demand out-stripped supply.
Anyone have any idea what the new version will sell for? If its any less than the Sports jacket then that's really rubbing salt into wounds.
finally others see the light lol. I actually think the sports jacket is selling for the same price as the barbour? Its release is down the road a ways but wasnt there an MSRP stated somewhere?
According to the image posted, the price seems to be around or higher than the Sport.
All these conversations are interesting but it doesn't take away the fact that the Sport jacket will be unique. Sure, the commander is a somewhat re branded Sport but it will be different. Therefore, in the short term, I don't think there will be any new TKT available and this should render the limited description valid. At the end, only a die hard bond fan or barbour enthusiast would know the difference and appreciate the value. As long as we recognize it ourselves, as individuals and as a group of dedicated fans then that's the most important. However, as a fan with a kid on the way and already ordered a BR, I am torn because as much as I want the Sport, I can't at the moment, so what Barbour and BR did was actually many fans saving grace. Giving us time to get the items we want while satisfying those who did the hard work and got it first (and who can afford to). The price that was paid not only covers the limited edition premium but Barbour jackets have been traditionally costly. The 399 pounds is not that high compared to their traditional offerings.
Rest assure that we all want to be first and unique as we are devoted to living like Bond but let's do it in such a manner that is enjoyable.
splitting hairs. Same jacket because its marketed as the Skyfall jacket. So were all the tokitos. When you have two jackets both marketed to the same customer base as being worn by one character, despite tiny differences, they are the same jacket. and please dont state that Barbour didnt market the originals as James bond's jacket.
They certainly didn't when I bought it in August. The "limited" claim was tied to their collaboration with the designer (and I'm curious to know where he stands on the re-issue).
Also, notice the word "Skyfall" does not appear in that caption. I'm sure they'll blog about it and PR it but I bet they haven't licensed it as a Skyfall item.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
If it was an ornament or collectible it would perhaps be seen as irksome. But we are talking about a piece of clothing that is going to be worn. Who is going to wrap one of these up in a box as a collectors item and not wear it? That would just be daft. You are going to wear it, it will become dirty and worn out. Then it's worth nothing anyway. When first released it had no Skyfall connection. So the Limited label wasn't ever aimed at us. The people complaining vigorously about it seem to like the fact that they have something others don't and would deny those others of ever getting one as it may ruin their elite status as an owner. Well, in any case, that isn't true as this is labelled differently and has none of the extras the original had. Get a grip, it's just a damned coat. The price makes it unavailable to most anyway, and the re-edition won't affect the originals price. There's nothing to gripe about. Limited could mean ten or ten thousand.
I see the same jacket and any reasonable person would to. Do you know why? They were both Marketed as being worn in skyfall. And, as pointed out; one is limited the other is not. Now to counter an argument that will probably come out: just because an individual website didnt necessarily make the skyfall reference (although almost all of them did, why wouldnt they) barbour made the biggest when they showcased their tokito jacket on their blog. Is that marketing? Yep. And now with this new jacket, barbour is putting it in the description that this jacket was worn by Bond. So, we have two jackets both being marketed as Bond's. Point proven i would think.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
When it was first released as a Ltd Ed, it had nothing at all to do with Skyfall. The production bought it well after it was released. The coat was not designed for Bond in any way shape or form and was for sale to the general public a long time before EON chose it to use in the film.
Sure, when they were made aware it was going to be used in the film, they mentioned it in the sales blurb. But it was never a factor in the limited status when first released.
Your point isn't even valid, let alone proven. It is moot. What do you think you will lose because of this new coat. Or more importantly, what gain do you think you will lose? It is branded differently, it has none of the extras either. Why do you care so much that you would deny others from buying a similar product that Bond is seen wearing. Not 100% the same at all.
I remember Sunspel releasing their CR polo. It was labelled as limited at the time too. They made thousands more after and still do. They changed the label and shade of blue just very slightly and people were narked because of it as it wasn't accurate to them, despite being virtually indistinguishable from the original. Did the original Sunspel buyers complain... no. And why should they. They have their 100% screen accurate piece and it is more desirable than the 99.5% accurate re-release. The originals are still more desirable and you don't need to go all Golem and possessive about more people being able to buy what you thought was a coveted and elite item. That still won't change with the new release. The original is branded very differently and will always be distinguishable.
You're supposed to see the same jacket, that's the whoe point. But not the same exact jacket that was branded as To Ki To, bit instead the same as what appeared on screen. This is how they think they can make the most money, and why shouldn't they?
We will all know, as will To Ki To enthusiasts, that it's the same but not the same. Whether they release something else even closer to the original remains to be seen. I can kind of see how this would be annoying if you want more of an air of exclusivity, but what Barbour is doing makes sense for them.
yeah, really kinda dont care about this any more. Arguing over definitions of what a limited edition is and differences between two jackets that are the same. Migraines now.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
It is a business afterall. Not a charity. And times are very hard for brands like these. If they don't capitalise on opportunities like this, they may not survive. They are doing nothing wrong. If they released the jacket exactly the same, with the same labelling and hood etc etc, then it would be stepping over the mark. But they aren't.
funny how thats over the mark. Im glad the line is drawn somwhere. The only thing I think everyone can agree on is the futility of this argument. Our discussions wont stop those from buying one who want one.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
The line has to be drawn somewhere. And our opinions don't matter either way. I have the original and don't care whether they release another similar jacket. You do. Why is that? And really who cares? I will wear mine until it is no longer wearable, or I become bored with it. I don't plan to make any financial gain, or to put it in a box or on display. I'd rather see someone else on the street wearing it as well and give them a passing nod rather than walk about thinking I have a rare jacket on my back. Each to their own, we are all different. At the end of the day, it's only another Bond fan that will recognise it for what it is. Everyone else will see it as just another green jacket I wear when out in the field. No one else cares, or will know what it is connected with other than the outdoors.
Ultimately, the real line is drawn by Barbour's customers -- will they lose any because they made another run of the Limited Edition To Ki To Sports Jacket? Probably not as many as they gained by selling all those pre-orders and probably not as many as they'll gain when the Commander comes out.
Anyway, everyone is entitled to his feelings about this, but I'm grateful for this forum and thread which was a great help to a lot of us.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
I doubt many that bought the coat were long standing Barbour customers anyway. It was just the Bond connection that made them buy it. Just as people would never have bought Tom Ford before QoS. So Barbour won't lose anything from this, just gain. And gain a lot I should imagine. Tom Ford never lost out from blatantly copying Sunspel, Oliver Peoples and Brioni. Now that was pretty bad )
No hood, no zips, much more fitted around the chest and shoulders. It's coming out AW13. Was informed not to buy the current Sports Jacket, as this one is due later in the year.
No hood, no zips, much more fitted around the chest and shoulders. It's coming out AW13. Was informed not to buy the current Sports Jacket, as this one is due later in the year.
Still too many buttons for SA, thought that triangle patch is kinda cool.
No hood, no zips, much more fitted around the chest and shoulders. It's coming out AW13. Was informed not to buy the current Sports Jacket, as this one is due later in the year.
Still too many buttons for SA, thought that triangle patch is kinda cool.
If it was an ornament or collectible it would perhaps be seen as irksome. But we are talking about a piece of clothing that is going to be worn. Who is going to wrap one of these up in a box as a collectors item and not wear it? That would just be daft. You are going to wear it, it will become dirty and worn out. Then it's worth nothing anyway. When first released it had no Skyfall connection. So the Limited label wasn't ever aimed at us. The people complaining vigorously about it seem to like the fact that they have something others don't and would deny those others of ever getting one as it may ruin their elite status as an owner. Well, in any case, that isn't true as this is labelled differently and has none of the extras the original had. Get a grip, it's just a damned coat. The price makes it unavailable to most anyway, and the re-edition won't affect the originals price. There's nothing to gripe about. Limited could mean ten or ten thousand.
Comments
I was lucky enough to get my jacket for about $10.00. Not considering my time in the equation. I purchased the last one jcrew had from their liquor store in NYC and had it shipped to New Jersey where there is no sales tax. They gave me the 30% discount they offered at the time for a total of $524. Unfortunately the jacket was too small. So, I sold it on eBay. It didn't sell for over $1100 but I was happy with my investment.
The winning bid was enough to cover the first jacket and almost cover the one I got from Kafka for $534 + $52 customs fee. I almost ordered another from jcrew when they had preorders available with the same 30% discount. I figured the market would have been flooded by now but I guess I was wrong about that and could have at least offered it up at retail for a small gain.
The staff at the Barbur stores in NYC were not happy to hear that jcrew was selling them with the 30% off promotion.
I don't like what Billy Reid does with their peacoat. A limitation may justify a higher price. But now they sell the peacoat regularly for the same price. In a way Barbours way is a bit more honest. I don't think (and hope) the ToKiTo comes back again. Instead they make a new one, exactly how the bond-fans want it to be. Supply and Demand...at the end, they all just wan't to make money.
And we are back to the same arguments again. "Why shouldnt a company make profit"? I have nothing against that, I live in the real world just like the rest of you. However that doesnt override my argument that when company that decides to print Limited Edition on their jacket's lining as well as state in their descriptions of it being released in extremely limited quantities and then decides to just ignore all of that by making more of the same jacket and market it to the same people, thats wrong. Plain and simple.
No one can argue against this. I know people here are just stoked that they got a jacket. Its totally natural and our immediate feelings are to applaud the company for doing so. But in the coming year when thousands of these jackets are floating around I do think that decreases the attractiveness of it. Thats my opinion. Some are fine with this. Others are not. And thats really all it comes down to. I dont feel the need to talk about this further as there is really nothing to be gained.
There is also a part of me that does not want anyone else to be able to buy this (or reproduction version) jacket. That's just selfish and narcissistic but oh well.
Anyone tried to make anything to cover the zipper up yet? I was thinking about sewing a strip of similar material to a zipper half to go on the jacket when I'm not using the hood.
Anyone have any idea what the new version will sell for? If its any less than the Sports jacket then that's really rubbing salt into wounds.
It will now be wrong for Barbour to charge ToKiTo prices but, equally, unfair on those that have already shelled out at those prices.
Bad on Barbour every which way.
All these conversations are interesting but it doesn't take away the fact that the Sport jacket will be unique. Sure, the commander is a somewhat re branded Sport but it will be different. Therefore, in the short term, I don't think there will be any new TKT available and this should render the limited description valid. At the end, only a die hard bond fan or barbour enthusiast would know the difference and appreciate the value. As long as we recognize it ourselves, as individuals and as a group of dedicated fans then that's the most important. However, as a fan with a kid on the way and already ordered a BR, I am torn because as much as I want the Sport, I can't at the moment, so what Barbour and BR did was actually many fans saving grace. Giving us time to get the items we want while satisfying those who did the hard work and got it first (and who can afford to). The price that was paid not only covers the limited edition premium but Barbour jackets have been traditionally costly. The 399 pounds is not that high compared to their traditional offerings.
Rest assure that we all want to be first and unique as we are devoted to living like Bond but let's do it in such a manner that is enjoyable.
They certainly didn't when I bought it in August. The "limited" claim was tied to their collaboration with the designer (and I'm curious to know where he stands on the re-issue).
A handy guide for newcomers!
Limited:
Not limited:
Also, notice the word "Skyfall" does not appear in that caption. I'm sure they'll blog about it and PR it but I bet they haven't licensed it as a Skyfall item.
Sure, when they were made aware it was going to be used in the film, they mentioned it in the sales blurb. But it was never a factor in the limited status when first released.
Your point isn't even valid, let alone proven. It is moot. What do you think you will lose because of this new coat. Or more importantly, what gain do you think you will lose? It is branded differently, it has none of the extras either. Why do you care so much that you would deny others from buying a similar product that Bond is seen wearing. Not 100% the same at all.
I remember Sunspel releasing their CR polo. It was labelled as limited at the time too. They made thousands more after and still do. They changed the label and shade of blue just very slightly and people were narked because of it as it wasn't accurate to them, despite being virtually indistinguishable from the original. Did the original Sunspel buyers complain... no. And why should they. They have their 100% screen accurate piece and it is more desirable than the 99.5% accurate re-release. The originals are still more desirable and you don't need to go all Golem and possessive about more people being able to buy what you thought was a coveted and elite item. That still won't change with the new release. The original is branded very differently and will always be distinguishable.
We will all know, as will To Ki To enthusiasts, that it's the same but not the same. Whether they release something else even closer to the original remains to be seen. I can kind of see how this would be annoying if you want more of an air of exclusivity, but what Barbour is doing makes sense for them.
Anyway, everyone is entitled to his feelings about this, but I'm grateful for this forum and thread which was a great help to a lot of us.
No hood, no zips, much more fitted around the chest and shoulders. It's coming out AW13. Was informed not to buy the current Sports Jacket, as this one is due later in the year.
I know, I could take it to a tailor but if you're not living on the edge... you're taking up too much room.
Still too many buttons for SA, thought that triangle patch is kinda cool.
What is SA?
Word