Will Connery's first five Bond films ever be topped?

SilentSpy

I just listened to a recent speech by Michael Wilson. What kind of surprised me was him talking about basically listening to reports about what should be in a Bond film. You would think that he wouldn't need a report after being around Bond films for so long. It also made me come up with this topic.

Every time a new actor plays Bond I always think that they might have the chance to top Connery's first five Bond films. So far no one has. I believe only Timothy Dalton has come close with his two films. George Lazenby was perfect with his one film. Now, after Michael Wilson's speech I'm almost 100% sure no one will top Connery's five. It's not just stronger influence by Fleming's books either. I think it's the lack of risk.

In a recent issue of Total Film magazine with the "Top 50 Bond Moments." There is an interesting quote by Doug Liman.

"When I made The Bourne Identity, what I really wanted to do was get hired by the Broccolis to do a Bond film. And they wouldn't hire me! They said I was too much of an independent thinker, and they had a specific formula, and that's all they wanted, and they didn't want it to be re-invented or re-imagined...And I went and made The Bourne Identity and the Broccolis went and changed their formula to copy The Bourne Identity!"

vanguard

Please tell us why you think the Aussie model was perfect on OHMSS. I think his innocence and naïveté worked effectively but it was not something that looked like he could sustain over the long haul. Fleming's Bond may not have had the wit and charm of Connery's Bond but that was a certain template and Lazenby was not equipped to handle either. Daniel Craig has done more in his two films than Dalton, IMO.

Scrummy64

Of the 20 Classic Bond films, none of Connery's are in my top 5. All of them but Thunderball are in my top 10, but my favourites all belong to Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan: On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights, Licence to Kill and GoldenEye.

I would agree that most of Connery's films were fundamentally better than almost all of the others, From Russia with Love in particular, and it's worth noting that I do still LOVE every single one of Connery's films, but in terms of sheer enjoyment I think all those others top them (although I haven't watched Goldfinger in a long time, so maybe that should be up there in place of Live and Let Die).

I liked OHMSS so much because you can connect with the characters more than in any other Bond film. I liked LaLD's bizarre change in tone and setting, and the memorable villains. TLD is probably my all-time favourite, simply because it is incredibly entertaining (my lasting memory of it will always be the plane sequence), and has a great Bond girl (even if the two main villains aren't great). LtK has an absolutely phenomenal villain, a dark tone, an exotic setting and some great stunt sequences. GE is mostly due to nostalgia, as it was my first Bond film, and watching it again recently it didn't seem quite as good as I remembered on the whole, but the villain is fantastic again, the finale is my all-time favourite in terms of sheer dramatic tension, and it's generally very memorable.

Blackleiter

You all know my bias, but I have a hard time believing that anyone will top Connery's portrayal of Bond. He achieved a mixture of charm, wit and menance that is difficult to duplicate, much less top, and none of the subsequent Bond actors have done it so far. And although I suppose just in terms of construction and execution of a film as a whole there might have been a couple that were on par with some of Connery's first 5 (On Her Majesty's Secret Service and Casino Royale come to mind), for me Sean Connery's performance trumps the other aspects of the later films. Perhaps Skyfall or whatever comes after will sway my opinion, but so far, no.

Virgil37

Connery will always have the advantage of being the first, and his first three movies basically invented the modern action cinema, IMO, so they have more value. That being said, until CR came along I would have replied no, Connery´s first movies can´t be topped. In CR they did it, it´s up there with FRWL in my list.
As for TB and YOLT, IMO they have been topped a few times.

Thunderpussy

Connery is the perfect example of the right guy at the right time, as well as
all the right technicians coming together at that One moment in time to
produce an almost Perfect Masterpiece,
So IMHO no, The first few Connery Bonds will never be Topped, Just as
the first three Star Wars movies will never be topped, they where simply
perfect for their Time.

SilentSpy

vanguard wrote:

Please tell us why you think the Aussie model was perfect on OHMSS. I think his innocence and naïveté worked effectively but it was not something that looked like he could sustain over the long haul. Daniel Craig has done more in his two films than Dalton, IMO.

I first watched OHMSS when I was young and after seeing Connery and Moore play Bond. I turned it off after the "this never happened to the other fellow" line. Years later I watched the movie again and began to like the movie a lot. The movie really gets good when Bond goes to Switzerland. I say Lazenby was perfect because he didn't make anymore and got out before making a bad Bond film.

I still think Dalton is better than Daniel Craig. Dalton made two strong Bond films. Daniel Craig made one good origin of Bond film and another that is a mess along the lines of the Brosnan type of action Bond films. What I'm getting at is the run of Connery Bond films.

chrisisall

Connery's best Bonds are like Chris Reeve's first two Superman movies; the actors were iconic in the roles, and they INVENTED the 'perfect' takes on the characters IMO.
That said, Dalton was amazing, Brosnan was a perfect 'good' Bond, and Craig captures 'fierce' like no other.
A similar debate over the best flavour ice cream comes to mind... )

BIG TAM

On balance I don't believe the six films from the '62-'69 period can ever be topped because everything that comes afterwards essentially remakes them or at least contains strong elements. Therefore they are the originators. Even YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, for all its faults, ushers in the notion of the epic Bond where sets & spectacle dominate, but I would say in that one instance THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (its most unashamed remake) is the better film.

As for whether anything new can be done with Bond, well probably not. Certainly not within the framework of what constitutes a James Bond film at present. Any new Bond would have to go fairly radical to be its own film. And if it deviates too much then it ceases to be a James Bond film. Such is the Catch-22 situation the producers find themselves in. Pierce Brosnan seemed to recognise this & one can see in interviews that it was irksome to him.

One wonders if Quentin Tarantino's ideas for CASINO ROYALE may have shaken the series to its core. He'd certainly be able to write grandstanding villain dialogue. But would his penchant for non-linear narrative make it too difficult to accept in the context of what's gone before? We'll never know but imagine for a moment his take on Dr. Shatterhand's Garden of Death. In fact just watch the climax of KILL BILL VOL. 1 & there you basically have it.

SilentSpy

Quentin Tarantino hasn't made a bad movie yet and I doubt that Bond would have messed up his streak. At this point it might have been better for Tarantino to do a one shot period piece that tied up with Dr. No. I get excited just thinking about it. That would be the Casino Royale movie to see. And if he was going to tie into Dr. No and make something seriously classic I can understand why Tarantino would still be a bit upset.

After that, then let the producers do a complete reboot. I did think that Daniel Craig had the best chance of equaling Connery's Bond films. Quantum of Solace was shocking to me. CommanderBond.net just put up this review of yet another person disliking the movie:

http://commanderbond.net/14951/kermode-and-mayo-james-bond-special.html

With all the people (at least male actors) in Skyfall it should be one of the best Bond films. At best it should be like The Spy Who Loved Me for Roger Moore. Namely, one that they really get all the Bond elements and Daniel Craig's style together for a good Bond film.

GordoLeiter

Quinten Tarantino directing a Bond movie.....hmmm....

*Oddjob throws his hat, Felix gets decapitated and a fountain of blood sputs from his body*

......yeah O_O

welshboy78

Well firstly I personally would have said "Will Connerys first FOUR films ever be topped" In my opinion YOLT is not a strong Bond film.

I would say Casino Royale is up there with those first 4, if Skyfall is special (I have a hunch it's going to be a cracker) then maybe we will have a competition on our hands if they can knock out another film within 2 years

chrisisall

welshboy78 wrote:

Well firstly I personally would have said "Will Connerys first FOUR films ever be topped" In my opinion YOLT is not a strong Bond film.

IMO, they have never been topped, only equaled, rarely.

OHMSS
TLD
LTK
GE
TND
CR

welshboy78

chrisisall wrote:

welshboy78 wrote:

Well firstly I personally would have said "Will Connerys first FOUR films ever be topped" In my opinion YOLT is not a strong Bond film.

IMO, they have never been topped, only equaled, rarely.

OHMSS
TLD
LTK
GE
TND
CR

I would agree with that list except maybe TND

chrisisall

welshboy78 wrote:

I would agree with that list except maybe TND

Yeah, I had to think about adding that one, but it's just so damn entertaining, and I love the small touches like Bond drinking Vodka before an expected shoot out, and Wai-Lin's character, and Stamper's recall to Grant... for all its faults I feel TND succeeded overall similarly to DN or GF.

Watchers Film Show

Connery will of course always be the architype in the role - by what all other actors will be judged by.

Is this right? part yes and part no! Bond has become a role by now that can be played by pretty much anyone - in the same way that Sherlock Holmes and Hamlet - the role is the star. James Bond is the star not the actor?

But will the the first five films ever be topped - no. Why? Because in essence they are the blueprint that all the rest adire too - the onlyt way to topp them would be to come up with a completly new idea - which in itself creates a problem? As there is no new idea? discuss?

Number24

While the first three Connery Bonds are favourites of mine, I think the rest of his Bonds were mediocre. So I think TB and YOLT has been topped, probably more than once. Certainly CR is better than SC's fourth fifth.

SilentSpy

welshboy78 wrote:

Well firstly I personally would have said "Will Connerys first FOUR films ever be topped" In my opinion YOLT is not a strong Bond film.

I would say Casino Royale is up there with those first 4, if Skyfall is special (I have a hunch it's going to be a cracker) then maybe we will have a competition on our hands if they can knock out another film within 2 years

It's about Connery's run. How from Dr. No to Thunderball and in some ways YOLT, the movies keep getting better. Or at least don't drop off in quality.

chrisisall wrote:

welshboy78 wrote:

I would agree with that list except maybe TND

Yeah, I had to think about adding that one, but it's just so damn entertaining, and I love the small touches like Bond drinking Vodka before an expected shoot out, and Wai-Lin's character, and Stamper's recall to Grant... for all its faults I feel TND succeeded overall similarly to DN or GF.

Those small bits in TND are the only good parts of the movie. A good movie should be more than just a few scenes. No way is TND as good as Dr. No or Goldfinger. I see TND as one of the main examples of the bad action movie type of Bond film.

chrisisall

SilentSpy wrote:

I see TND as one of the main examples of the bad action movie type of Bond film.

Eh, I'd hang that sign on DAD.

SilentSpy

chrisisall wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

I see TND as one of the main examples of the bad action movie type of Bond film.

Eh, I'd hang that sign on DAD.

True, Die Another Day and Quantum of Solace are in that group too.

Halcon

welshboy78 wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

welshboy78 wrote:

Well firstly I personally would have said "Will Connerys first FOUR films ever be topped" In my opinion YOLT is not a strong Bond film.

IMO, they have never been topped, only equaled, rarely.

OHMSS
TLD
LTK
GE
TND
CR

I would agree with that list except maybe TND

TND, many good moments but not one of the best. It proves that these movies are all great in the eye of individual fans...

I happen to love Octopussy and it would be in my top 5 as unequaled.

chrisisall

Halcon wrote:

I happen to love Octopussy and it would be in my top 5 as unequaled.

A much as people say TSWLM is Moore's best Bond movie, there's a case to be made that it's REALLY Octopussy. I had such fun seeing that last month (for the first time in decades), and aside from 2 moments (you know them), the film worked in a big way IMO. -{