Where's the whimsy? Where are the 'Bond moments'?

jamesbondagent007

Now, don't get me wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I'm incredibly excited for Skyfall. I've watched all the TV spots and teasers and listened to the preview of Adele's song over and over. The cast is stellar, the crew is top-of-the-industry, and the film itself looks bold, fresh and contemporary, as well as classic, sophisticated, and traditional in the best sense of the word.

I get a distinct Connery-esque vibe from the promotional material (and the song) that this is not just going to be a terrific action movie, but a quintessential, instant-classic Bond film at that. At least I hope. I love Craig as Bond, and I even enjoyed Quantum of Solace more than most.

Having said all that, this Bond looks even angrier, meaner, and more intense than he did in the last film, which is one of the things that ruined it for so many people. There's maybe one or two shots when he's talking to Q where he has a slight smirk on his face. Other than that, he looks so hell bent on killing as many people as he possibly can that he might burst a blood vessel.

Where's the nonchalance? The wry humor? The tongue-in-cheek stunts?

Now, I woke up this morning to the pleasant surprise of Octopussy being on TV, and I watched a bit of it. Bond gets his tires shot off and drives onto a train track, then disguises himself as a gorilla while looking for the nuclear bomb. Octopussy and Khan talk non-chalantly about their plans for world domination, and the henchmen attack Bond with circus weapons.

Obviously this is an extreme example, but it reminded me of something that the series is at risk of losing if it becomes too self-absorbed and overly-serious. The fun, laugh-out-loud implausibility of a true 'Bond' moment worthy of the accompanying theme song.

It's a fine line to tow to make the audience accept these moments, I'll admit.

Ejector seat, cello case = great. Heck, I even like the moon buggy in DAF.

Moonraker gondola, Parasailing a tidal wave = awful. It's hard to predict what will work and what won't.

In my opinion, the last good moment like that was either Goldeneye tank scene or maybe Q's fishing boat.

Casino Royale had like a 6-second sequence with a bulldozer. That was it, as far as true Bond moments, IMO. Not that Casino Royale wasn't great, it just didn't always feel like Bond. Quantum had next to none. It might as well have been a Bourne film.

Having said all that, I'll probably enjoy the crap out of Skyfall and it'll end up as one of my favorites. But I really hope it lightens up a bit throughout much of the film and has some fun with itself. Maybe he should commandeer an ice cream truck or something. That's what Bond is all about.

HowardB

I don't think you're going to get any Roger Moore moments that's for sure (I wouldn't want that type of nonsense anyway).
I think we will just have to see the film to find out. My guess there may be some black humor. Bond does fall 300ft off a bridge which may not be a chucklefest but pretty wild none the less.
Actually one return to classic Bond is based upon what I've seen in the trailers, stills, etc it looks like Bond beds three different women in the film, which is probably the most in a single film since the Moore era. -{

DTReinsma

HowardB wrote:

it looks like Bond beds three different women in the film, which is probably the most in a single film since the Moore era. -{

Brosnan had three in TWINE.

Halcon

I'm with you on this...there should be a little more non-chalance, which is as much a part of Bond as everything else. Craig portrays this (or his writers) in much more subtle ways.
For example, in CR when he takes the rich guys Rover and crash parks it and throws away the keys (great stuff!), or in QOS when he offers his two cents at the opera scene...

...maybe there are some surprises in Skyfall yet...

minigeff

You'll notice in one shot, as bond aims the trusty walther, he gives a little wink, there's also the cuff shuffling moment when he jumps into the train, the smart arsed smirk as he activates the ppk/s grip, and the 'resurrection' line is delivered with a bit of a witty edge to it.

Although there'll be no slide whistle, I think it's a safe bet that SF will contain quite a few classic bond one liners.

Gassy Man

I really don't need the whimsy to enjoy a Bond movie . . . I want humor, but the borderline camp moments from many of the Moore films, for instance, make me groan when I see them on TV. I don't think that the Bond movies have to be as cold as Quantum of Solace, either, but I'd prefer the blend of humor seen in the classic Bond films. In that respect, I fully anticipate we'll get a good deal of that in Skyfall. Right now, the advertising campaign is all about selling it as a hard-hitting action film, but it's obvious they're returning more to the standard formula of Bond films, particularly those of the last few decades.

Le Samourai

"Where's the whimsy?" Hopefully dead and buried. To me, the true 007 moments are things like the execution of Dent in DN, not the "fun, laugh-out-loud" implausible stuff that more often than not elicited groans and embarrassment from yours truly. I'll satisfy my whimsical spy quotient with Steed and Peel in 'The Avengers.'

I agree with Ian Fleming, who believed the Bond films should be done with a "straight face" and a "desperate sense of urgency."

And I much prefer the subtle humor of Craig's Bond to the overt, often crude puns Pierce Brosnan was saddled with.

jamesbondagent007

Le Samourai wrote:

To me, the true 007 moments are things like the execution of Dent in DN

Sure, I'll agree that the times when Bond switches off his charm and becomes the killer he's paid to be are some of the most effective. The death of Stromberg, Trevelyan and Electra King. Even Dominic Greene.

But that's not all that makes a film Bondian. As I said, it's a fine line to tow between cringeworthy and so-awesome-it-makes-you-laugh, but those moments, when done right, are key. The car on rails isn't a prime example of that, but it's what made the idea come to mind.

The Goldeneye tank chase or the bulldozer in CR didn't make me groan, that was pure Bond. I'd just like to see more of those rare scenes where the 007 guitar riff comes in and you're reminded why you fell in love with Bond films years ago.

77007

No thanks. The films have changed for the better. There's just the the right amount of "Bond" fat trimmed already.

GordoLeiter

Its odd how people diss Craig but yet Dalton's take on 007 is exactly the same as Craig's portrayal. But the producers did say that Skyfall will have SOME Connery elements added to it, like the return of Q and the Goldfinger DB5

The Domino Effect

I think the cuff-shuffle is the most we should expect, and the most we will get. It's a whimsy of nonsense in an otherwise violent world and that suits me perfectly. Thanks to Austin Powers and Johnny Dangerous, I don't think we'll ever see anything anywhere remotely close to the Moore Bonds ever again because otherwise they risk becoming a parody of themselves.

Gala Brand

I'll go out on a limb and predict that we won't see Craig in a gorilla suit anytime soon.

GordoLeiter

Gala Brand wrote:

I'll go out on a limb and predict that we won't see Craig in a gorilla suit anytime soon.

Or a 60 year old Craig shagging a scary looking bond chick

jamesbondagent007

I'm not talking about a gorilla suit. *sigh* Nevermind. I guess I didn't explain what I was talking about well enough.

I just don't want James Bond to be so unrelentingly ruthless is all.

chrisisall

jamesbondagent007 wrote:

I'm not talking about a gorilla suit. *sigh* Nevermind. I guess I didn't explain what I was talking about well enough.

You did, perfectly IMO.

I just don't want James Bond to be so unrelentingly ruthless is all.

I've said this on other threads as well- I don't need every moment to be as serious as an early Fleming novel, and yes, I do like a knowing sense of humour once in a while. Craig threw in a few smashing moments of incredibly subtle humour, but it was REALLY thin.. not so thin that I didn't appreciate it, but let's take an example from TWINE- the unbelieving look on the girl's face regarding Bond's boat in the PTS- that was hilarious, but rooted in a reality of sorts, and definitely not slapstick. BUT, from the same scene, straightening a tie underwater is just ridiculous. So it's a fine line, for me better dead serious than stupid, but I'd like a little ) in the mix when possible.

Mr Beech

"Where's the whimsy? Where are the 'Bond moments'?" - Someone Who Hasn't Seen SkyFall Yet

GordoLeiter

Mr Beech wrote:

"Where's the whimsy? Where are the 'Bond moments'?" - Someone Who Hasn't Seen SkyFall Yet

darenhat

I think the Craig Bonds certainly have their 'appropriate' level of whimsy, it's just a little different than Moore's style. I think of the line about the 'teachers who won the lottery' bit in QOS or Bond being mistaken as a valet in CR. While not as overt as some of the Moore or Connery moments, like Bond driving half a car thru the streets of Paris, I think they are enough to even out the mood for the audience. I've always enjoyed those light-hearted touches in the previous Bonds and wouldn't mind seeing them return (it is escapism after all. Daniel Craig does have a sense of humor that doesn't get exercised nearly enough IMO.

Aside from whimsy, I'd would like to see a bit more departure in terms of production design...the 'look' of Skyfall seems a bit to similar to CR and QOS to me for some reason.

chrisisall

I SO miss Ken Adam....

Mr Beech

GordoLeiter wrote:

Mr Beech wrote:

"Where's the whimsy? Where are the 'Bond moments'?" - Someone Who Hasn't Seen SkyFall Yet

8-)

My point is obviously that there is room for surprise and whimsy. This is a hard thing to really assess without having full scenes in memory for reference.

HalfMonk HalfHitman

Where's the whimsy in Dr. No or From Russia With Love?

Gassy Man

HalfHitman HalfMonk wrote:

Where's the whimsy in Dr. No or From Russia With Love?

In the wit of the set up -- the "three blind mice" being the assassins, for instance, or in Krillencu being shot coming out of Anita Enkberg's mouth promoting a box office disaster -- and in the character moments -- in Bond singing to Honey Rider or in his playfulness with Tania on the train. These are the better moments of "whimsy" because they are restrained. Used properly, they also juxtapose the moments of fun with the dark violence and help make the early Bond films' often perverse sense of the universe palatable. Later, such moments become simple comic relief or self-referential farce and are annoying for just that reason . . . by the Brosnan era, they're not even creative.

chrisisall

HalfHitman HalfMonk wrote:

Where's the whimsy in Dr. No or From Russia With Love?

Three blind mice? Killing a dude with a Bond mask for spectacle? )

Blackleiter

I wholeheartedly agree. I much prefer the few moments of subtle humor of Craig's Bond to Brosnan's smirky wisecracks and Moore's way over-the-top silliness. I wouldn't be opposed to a couple more lighter moments like the parking valet scene in CR, but I really hope Skyfall doesn't go much further into "whimsy" territory than that.

Le Samourai wrote:

"Where's the whimsy?" Hopefully dead and buried. To me, the true 007 moments are things like the execution of Dent in DN, not the "fun, laugh-out-loud" implausible stuff that more often than not elicited groans and embarrassment from yours truly. I'll satisfy my whimsical spy quotient with Steed and Peel in 'The Avengers.'

I agree with Ian Fleming, who believed the Bond films should be done with a "straight face" and a "desperate sense of urgency."

And I much prefer the subtle humor of Craig's Bond to the overt, often crude puns Pierce Brosnan was saddled with.

GordoLeiter

chrisisall wrote:

HalfHitman HalfMonk wrote:

Where's the whimsy in Dr. No or From Russia With Love?

Three blind mice? Killing a dude with a Bond mask for spectacle? )

Actually its TREEEEE BLIND MYCEE according to the singer lol

DEFIANT 74205

jamesbondagent007 wrote:

Having said all that, this Bond looks even angrier, meaner, and more intense than he did in the last film, which is one of the things that ruined it for so many people. There's maybe one or two shots when he's talking to Q where he has a slight smirk on his face. Other than that, he looks so hell bent on killing as many people as he possibly can that he might burst a blood vessel.

Where's the nonchalance? The wry humor? The tongue-in-cheek stunts?
....

I really hope it lightens up a bit throughout much of the film and has some fun with itself. Maybe he should commandeer an ice cream truck or something. That's what Bond is all about.

I couldn't disagree with you more. What you mentioned isn't what makes a film 'Bondian'. The darker, ruthless Bond is the true version that has been lifted up straight from the novels. That Bond is someone which, to quote Fleming himself, "the top gangsters, the top FBI operatives, the top spies and the top counter-spies are cold-hearted, cold-blooded, ruthless, tough killers" (in The Spy Who Loved Me - although in that same novel, Fleming described Bond as someone who has never been able to kill in cold blood). Another quote from the novel Goldfinger: "it was his duty to be as cool about death as a surgeon. If it happened, it happened."

James Bond is a ruthless, cold killing machine. The "angrier, meaner" Bond that you described is the Bond I want to see from here on in. The whimsical moments that you described are not Bond moments. They're polar opposites.

Le Samourai wrote:

"Where's the whimsy?" Hopefully dead and buried. To me, the true 007 moments are things like the execution of Dent in DN, not the "fun, laugh-out-loud" implausible stuff that more often than not elicited groans and embarrassment from yours truly. I'll satisfy my whimsical spy quotient with Steed and Peel in 'The Avengers.'

I agree with Ian Fleming, who believed the Bond films should be done with a "straight face" and a "desperate sense of urgency."

And I much prefer the subtle humor of Craig's Bond to the overt, often crude puns Pierce Brosnan was saddled with.

I agree entirely.

zaphod

jamesbondagent007 wrote:

I'm not talking about a gorilla suit. *sigh* Nevermind. I guess I didn't explain what I was talking about well enough.

I just don't want James Bond to be so unrelentingly ruthless is all.

I do really get what you mean. I also like my Bonds hard edged, but there needs to be a blend of light and shade. I also agree that it's hard to quantify. For me at the heart of it is that our boys life should not be unremittingly grim. He must get to do cool stuff (bedding three Women is a good start) and have 'cool stuff' we must want to aspire to him. So far I would not want The life we have seen with DC. This is not a dig at Daniel, as he is more than capable of delivering it. I like my Bond with a hint of swagger (not too much) and a lot of cool.

BIG TAM

The beauty of humour in the Connery era is that they had taste & balance & were essentially aimed at an older audience. GOLDFINGER is as tongue in cheek as any but never feels silly. Moore's era was clearly aimed at a younger audience & the need to entertain them with slapstick & general tomfoolery.

The tide's now turned towards more realism & less make-believe. This can be still jarring for a series of films that is still essentially considered a fantasy franchise. Though I applaud the more realistic approach even I gulped at Mr. Slate's death in QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

A more realistic approach to killing in a Bond film thus making violence less palatable? That opens a whole other moral debate.

Number24

I prefer the ruthless and "realistic" Bond, but still larger than life and with a little bit of sarcasm and fun. I think the humor in Craig's movies is about right; used sparingly, smart and sarcastic. What I would like to see more of is the snob and the womanizer. I want him to enjoy fine wine and fine women more!

zaphod

Number24 wrote:

I prefer the ruthless and "realistic" Bond, but still larger than life and with a little bit of sarcasm and fun. I think the humor in Craig's movies is about right; used sparingly, smart and sarcastic. What I would like to see more of is the snob and the womanizer. I want him to enjoy fine wine and fine women more!

I think you hit the mark with enjoyment. One of the things I liked about TND was the scenes with Bond smiling and even laughing with a child like glee in the car park scene.

Number24

Actually I think that scene was one of the worst in TND. Bond seemed childish and his glee was inapropriate in light of Paris's death just a minute or two earlier. I was talking about enjoying fine wine, food and the company of beautiful women, not the childish glee from a shiny new toy.