Is MR rock bottom for anyone else?
Jarvio
EnglandPosts: 4,241MI6 Agent
It was always a toss-up between MR and DAD for my least favourite of all 22 official EON bond films. So I decided to watch them back to back last night, to finally make my decision once and for all.
As much as I think DAD is a weak bond film, I found it to be better than MR.
Reasons why MR is my least favourite:
- The jaws love scenes are the most terrible scenes ever and have no place in a bond movie
- James bond does not belong in space
- Laser guns
- Super race plot
Ok, that's 4 reasons. But they are 4 HUGE reasons. They all destroy the film as far as I'm concerned.
It's a shame, because MR has one of the greatest scenes in a bond movie ever - the centrifugal scene. Really enjoyed that. And the chang fight scene is pretty good also. But other than that, MR is destroyed by those 4 things I mentioned above. Such a shame because I love all the other Moore bond films.
Oh, and to be controversial, I hate MR's PTS too. I have no idea why it is so popular. Jaws flapping his wings to circus music, and then surviving the fall? Yep, for me it is the worst PTS in the entire series (at least the song is good though).
So I guess my question is:
- I know many rank MR low, but is there anyone else on this forum, other than me, that ranks it as the very worst?
As much as I think DAD is a weak bond film, I found it to be better than MR.
Reasons why MR is my least favourite:
- The jaws love scenes are the most terrible scenes ever and have no place in a bond movie
- James bond does not belong in space
- Laser guns
- Super race plot
Ok, that's 4 reasons. But they are 4 HUGE reasons. They all destroy the film as far as I'm concerned.
It's a shame, because MR has one of the greatest scenes in a bond movie ever - the centrifugal scene. Really enjoyed that. And the chang fight scene is pretty good also. But other than that, MR is destroyed by those 4 things I mentioned above. Such a shame because I love all the other Moore bond films.
Oh, and to be controversial, I hate MR's PTS too. I have no idea why it is so popular. Jaws flapping his wings to circus music, and then surviving the fall? Yep, for me it is the worst PTS in the entire series (at least the song is good though).
So I guess my question is:
- I know many rank MR low, but is there anyone else on this forum, other than me, that ranks it as the very worst?
1 - LALD, 2 - AVTAK, 3 - LTK, 4 - OP, 5 - NTTD, 6 - FYEO, 7 - SF, 8 - DN, 9 - DAF, 10 - TSWLM, 11 - OHMSS, 12 - TMWTGG, 13 - GE, 14 - MR, 15 - TLD, 16 - YOLT, 17 - GF, 18 - DAD, 19 - TWINE, 20 - SP, 21 - TND, 22 - FRWL, 23 - TB, 24 - CR, 25 - QOS
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Comments
I don't mind the space theme as the Novel was about a Rocket.
Although putting Bond in space Might have been one small step too far.
I like the super race Idea there are still many Racist and Far right groups
who still believe in this sort of rubbish.
So in many ways it would be near the Bottom of my List of Bonds.
Having said that When I'm in the mood it's great fun. I love the PTS
( would be better without Jaws) a brilliant Idea. -{
The Chang fight I always thought looked Dull, as if Both actors
weren't really that into it.
I have no issue with Bond being in space. It's not as if he is fighting aliens. Bond is in the realms of reality, being on a space shuttle and an orbiting space station. To me, it's more in the realms of reality than the parasurfing sequence in Die Another Day. I freely admit I enjoy the space sequence apart from the laser fight. I particularly enjoy the reveal of Hugo Drax's space station to John Barry's superb music, Drax's speech, plus Bond and Goodhead in the shuttle chasing the globes into the Earth's atmosphere. The effects were very good for the day and have stood the test of time well, IMO.
As for the PTS. I agree Jaws flapping like a bird is silly and unnecessary but what comes before that is pretty spectacular. Here are other examples of why Moonraker is not rock bottom (apart from Roger
And yet....
It looks brilliant. This was a time when an extravagant film was actually that. It cost $30 million back in 1979 & wow, it looked it. Wonderful locations, production design, music, effects, action & stunts. And Roger Moore at his suave best.
MOONRAKER's a mischievous beast. On paper I should hate it but it's like a cheeky child that constantly wins me over with big doe eyes.
Perhaps I'm a hypocrite given my less than enthusiastic feelings towards YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, but I can't help it. It's a joy, for me at least.
Well, not to hurt Moore fans, but most of his entries for me were the low points of the series, mainly due to the emphasis on the baffoonery moments and making Bond so schizoid - one moment he's deadly serious about his mission and the next he swinging through jungle trees accompanied by a Tarzan call. Don't get me wrong - I like Moore and enjoyed some of his performances in the role when he was trying to play it straight in certain scenes, and I liked him in other films outside the series (like The Saint). For me, MR and TMWTGG were truly the lowest points. I won't go into the dozens of reasons why, but let me just say I haven't had the stomach to watch them in many years. I gave them a quick fast forward through recently, and my opinion has not softened with time. I enjoyed FYEO and OCTPSY to a degree because they tried to get back to a tougher, Fleming style Bond and plots, but they spoiled them by the sniggering schoolboy humor. It's a pity they did MR when Moore was Bond - had it been any of the other actors and had they made it a realistic updated version of the actual story, it would have probably had been one of the best films.
What is it about AVTAK that you hate? For me, AVTAK is far more enjoyable than MR
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
- Roger Moore: too old and tired and less credible than ever
- Stacy Sutton: possibly the worst Bond girl of all with her constant screeching and total lack of chemistry with Sir Roger
- Plot: Generally boring and slow-moving
- Action scenes: Mostly unexciting (e.g. the fire engine chase)
- The usual silly humor: "California Girls", anyone?)
- Grace Jones: Not bad as the villain's henchwoman; terrible as a sexual tryst for Bond
There are other reasons I place AVTAK at the bottom of my list, but I promised the short version.
That's fair enough reasoning, but I have to disagree about the action scenes - I find them very exciting and it's one of the reasons why the film is high on my list. Different strokes and all that though...
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
The rest I will watch for free!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I agree with these points. However Moonraker is still not my worst Bond film. The worst to me was TMWTGG. I really don't watch that movie much except for the ending where it actually becomes a Bond movie on the island. But when Die Another Day came out and then Quantum of Solace, those two almost immediately jumped to the bottom. Those are two Bond movies I only watch for the scenes. I don't own them either. Also, they both came after pretty good entries where you thought the producers had things under control.
If you look at Moonraker as a big fantasy Bond movie. Especially as kind of a two part to TSWLM. Then it's pretty good. I love the fantasy dream like music. The majority of girls in Moonraker are hot. Drax is a good villain. Maybe I like Moonraker so much because I watched it when I was younger.
Its what happens when the producers stopped trying to be original and just followed trends. MR doesn't even try to hide the fact that it is totally unoriginal. It was obviously designed to latch onto the science fiction vogue of the day. The sampling from Close Encounters for the door code and the Magnificent 7 music just scream' were fresh out of ideas'.
Its not even a proper storyline, its just a number of exotic loactions strung together by a paperthin reason for Bond being in them before the big finale (I hope I'm injecting the right note of scarcasm here) in outer space.
Its a movie that doesn't know where to stop. The opening sequence with Bond retreiving the parachute was brilliant and then they ruined it by adding Jaws. The gondola chase wasn't exactly original but it was OK until it turned into a hooovercraft. I think at that point I tried to crawl under my seat in the cinema and preptend I wasn't actually a Bond fan but had come into the theatre by mistake thinking it was a documentary about birds.
Its one of those movies where there is so much wrong with it that its easier to say what was good. For me there is only two sequences worth the price of the cinema ticket:
1. The opening sequence before Jaws appeared.
2. The centrifugal trainer
There are two things I have never understood about MR:
1. Why did the producers call the Bond girl Holly Goodhead rather than Gala Brand from the book, and more perplexing
2. Why does Bond not carry his Walther PPK in the entire movie. All he would have had to do was shoot Jaws on the other cable car.
The only thing good about MR was that it lead to FYEO.
It's not my favourite movie but it has certain good elements.
Yes, there are comedic elements and Jaws unfortunately is part of many of them.
But if you agree for one moment, that some super-industrial is really able to start his own space programm (and that became already reality as ISS flights are recently performed by private companies), the entire plot is not so much out-of line.
The often criticized laserfights look poorly by todays standards but look at the first Starwars movies to compare what was then state of the at.
I mean, noone really criticizes Dr. No or Goldfinger - particularly FRWL for bad backprojection scenes, so why is everyone jumping on MR?
The movie has so many exciting elements, locations and not to forget the gadgets that I can easily forgive the end of the Bondola sequence, Jaws looking like an ugly bird and some of the outdated space scenes.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I suppose at the time MR was a bit like The Expendables only with more charm; I saw the sequel this year and sometimes it tries to be very serious and tragic, and other times you're meant to switch gear and laugh at the silly injokes. Some people can go along with that; I could with Moonraker but not with Expendables 2, though that was just pretty rubbish anyway. But it requires a certain knowingness, I don't know, a post-modern approach. The Moore films are saying, okay, we know you know this isn't real so we're not going to kid you, but sometimes we need a serious moment or two anyway. The Craig films are more like hey, you want to take this seriously, so we will. If you're prepared to believe, so shall we.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Other highlights for me are
The cable car fight,(though Jaws reaction at the crash is a bit silly)
The Doberman scene (this is very dark scene and at contrast to a lot of this films light tone)
The scene with Drax, (you missed, did i?)
The PTS, title song and score in general
Centrifuge chamber scene
I also dont mind the space scenes, love the score, think Drax is a great villain, like Holly, and while i agree Jaws falling in love was daft and he doesent seem as fearsome, i quite like him coming to Bonds assistance.
Overall a winner for me, but i know i am in the minority here.
Well I know that the "that wouldn't happen" notion applies to most, if not all bond films, but I just think MR took it too far. But even so, even though the space sequence is unrealistic, it also bores me to tears. And the jaws love scenes are just awul. So, moments like that blemish my enjoyment of the film. That is it's biggest crime for me. The level of enjoyment is the number 1 most important thing IMO, and MR has the lowest for me overall.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Say what you will about Die Another Day, but even its worse is still better than Moonraker's crap.
mentioned the dreary title song. Shirley deserved a bit better than that for
her third Bond song.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
So Moonraker might make Ian Fleming turn in his grave but it does so with style and panache. Compare with other bad Bond films like DAF or DAD which are just nasty, tawdry and trashy.