Shooting questions/discussion

chrisisall

I'm shooting my Airsoft PPK, not a real one, but shooting is shooting (for the most part) so good tips from anyone will help.
When you aim, do you use the sight? Or do you hold the gun off your line of sight slightly & do the geometry in your head to hit the target? It seems to be working better for me the second way. Also, I'm getting very similar results both righty & lefty- is that unusual? I would expect to be noticeably better with one or the other...

Silhouette Man

chrisisall wrote:

I'm shooting my Airsoft PPK, not a real one, but shooting is shooting (for the most part) so good tips from anyone will help.
When you aim, do you use the sight? Or do you hold the gun off your line of sight slightly & do the geometry in your head to hit the target? It seems to be working better for me the second way. Also, I'm getting very similar results both righty & lefty- is that unusual? I would expect to be noticeably better with one or the other...

I recently shot my 12 bore shotgun (old one) over heather bog, but can't help you with your question, sorry.

minigeff

Oh dear, "shooting is shooting".... much to learn young padwan.

I've had the pleasure of shooting many different types of firearm, and shot in quite a few different disciplines at competition level, and I can safely say that shooting is not simply shooting. I wish it was though, it'd make it a hell of a lot easier! )

Shooting, as one of my friends sadly found out, is not like the movies. 150yd shots with a smith and wesson .38 snub nose do not happen. Taking refuge behind a wooden table would not save you from an AK47, sparks do not fly from wooden furniture and shotguns do not blow perfectly round holes in bar walls.

With pistol shooting, Jesus, where do I start. You have to taken into account position, stance, breathing, aim (as in which eye is dominant), trigger pull (both first and second stage), follow through technique (chuckle), lighting and wind conditions, ammunition type and then there's the care and maintenance of you pistol. The list is virtually endless.

Rifle shooting is way different to pistol, and shotguns are in a league of their own.

MG -{

chrisisall

minigeff wrote:

Oh dear, "shooting is shooting".... much to learn young padwan.

I was referring to the aiming to hit a target part. I've been into martial arts since 1974, and I can tell you that in the end, a punch IS just a punch, although the road to simplicity can be (and in most instances should be) very complex. B-)

With pistol shooting, Jesus, where do I start. You have to taken into account position, stance, breathing, aim (as in which eye is dominant), trigger pull (both first and second stage), follow through technique (chuckle), lighting and wind conditions, ammunition type and then there's the care and maintenance of you pistol. The list is virtually endless.

Now this fascinates me... which eye is dominant... in the past couple of days of shooting my little toy, I've been looking with both eyes, letting my brain choose which eye's information was the most pertinent to the aiming process... is it preferable to pick what you consider to be your 'stronger' eye & close the other?

Le Samourai

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Oh dear, "shooting is shooting".... much to learn young padwan.

I was referring to the aiming to hit a target part. I've been into martial arts since 1974, and I can tell you that in the end, a punch IS just a punch, although the road to simplicity can be (and in most instances should be) very complex. B-)

With pistol shooting, Jesus, where do I start. You have to taken into account position, stance, breathing, aim (as in which eye is dominant), trigger pull (both first and second stage), follow through technique (chuckle), lighting and wind conditions, ammunition type and then there's the care and maintenance of you pistol. The list is virtually endless.

Now this fascinates me... which eye is dominant... in the past couple of days of shooting my little toy, I've been looking with both eyes, letting my brain choose which eye's information was the most pertinent to the aiming process... is it preferable to pick what you consider to be your 'stronger' eye & close the other?

I determined my dominant eye via the triangle test. See the link for an explanation:

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/eye-dominance.htm

Massad Ayoob is one of my favorite gun writers. Here's his excellent primer on pistol shooting:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

chrisisall

Le Samourai wrote:

I determined my dominant eye via the triangle test. See the link for an explanation:

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/eye-dominance.htm

Hey LS, I tried to do that test, but I can't do it because I can't see the object with both eyes through the opening, and I'm so aware of it because when I hold my hands up, the opject invariably winds up blocked and I have to move my hands right or left forcing me to choose which eye will see the object or not... does that mean no dominance?

Massad Ayoob is one of my favorite gun writers. Here's his excellent primer on pistol shooting:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

Nice article, great stuff on focus shift- makes so much sense, but no mention of closing an eye, so, I guess you don't?

Le Samourai

chrisisall wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

I determined my dominant eye via the triangle test. See the link for an explanation:

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/eye-dominance.htm

Hey LS, I tried to do that test, but I can't do it because I can't see the object with both eyes through the opening, and I'm so aware of it because when I hold my hands up, the opject invariably winds up blocked and I have to move my hands right or left forcing me to choose which eye will see the object or not... does that mean no dominance?

Massad Ayoob is one of my favorite gun writers. Here's his excellent primer on pistol shooting:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

Nice article, great stuff on focus shift- makes so much sense, but no mention of closing an eye, so, I guess you don't?

Google 'eye dominance test' and some other ways of determining your dominant eye will pop up.

Personally, I don't close an eye, but I sort of squint my weaker eye a bit.

chrisisall

Thanks a lot for the info, I will put it to good use shooting print ups of Blofeld & Stromberg! )

chrisisall

Le Samourai wrote:

Google 'eye dominance test' and some other ways of determining your dominant eye will pop up.

Every test seems to indicate that neither is dominant. Although my left eye seems to focus a tad better at distance....

minigeff

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Oh dear, "shooting is shooting".... much to learn young padwan.

I was referring to the aiming to hit a target part. I've been into martial arts since 1974, and I can tell you that in the end, a punch IS just a punch, although the road to simplicity can be (and in most instances should be) very complex. B-)

With pistol shooting, Jesus, where do I start. You have to taken into account position, stance, breathing, aim (as in which eye is dominant), trigger pull (both first and second stage), follow through technique (chuckle), lighting and wind conditions, ammunition type and then there's the care and maintenance of you pistol. The list is virtually endless.

Now this fascinates me... which eye is dominant... in the past couple of days of shooting my little toy, I've been looking with both eyes, letting my brain choose which eye's information was the most pertinent to the aiming process... is it preferable to pick what you consider to be your 'stronger' eye & close the other?

As others have pointed out, there's loads of online tests. You WILL have a dominant eye.

I was told its usually the same as your hand. But saying that, I used to shoot with a guy who was right handed and left eye dominant.

Now some say shoot with both eyes open. Erm no. When you close your weaker eye, you strain your dominant one, you also have to tighten the muscles around your weaker eye in order to close it. These actions lead to headache and muscle spasms. The way I shot pistol was wearing some safety specs (very important) which were tinted yellow. The yellow tint improves contrast with black and white bullseye style targets. I placed a small round black sticker on the inside of my left lense, right in the line of sight. This blocked my left eye's view of the target but allowed ambient light to still get to it, resulting in no straining or headaches.

As for 'styles' of shooting, in target shooting you rest onto your target by either bringing the gun up and sitting your sights on target, or by bringing the gun up and lifting through the target and coming back down to rest at the right point.

Benchrest rifle is totally different and you're using a scope and hardly touching the gun.

Shotgun shooting is utterly different as all you have is a front 'bead', there's no rear sight! And you have to shoot in front of the birds path, this is called 'lead'.

A punch may be just a punch, but a shot is not just a shot

My best advice;

If you seriously want to take up shooting buy a reliable accurate gun. Pistols are harder so start with rifles. Why? Because an inaccurate gun won't tell you if you're shooting correctly as the shots will be so irratic you won't know if its the crap gun or your technique that's not right. This will lead to frustration, and then you'll just give up.

There is no point in an inaccurate gun, much like a knife with a blunt blade.

MG -{

chrisisall

minigeff wrote:

an inaccurate gun won't tell you if you're shooting correctly as the shots will be so irratic you won't know if its the crap gun or your technique that's not right. This will lead to frustration

I would assume that guns are like cars; it takes a few minutes to get used to each new one you use.
I would also tend to assume that a PPK is not a crap gun, is that correct? ?:)

minigeff

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

an inaccurate gun won't tell you if you're shooting correctly as the shots will be so irratic you won't know if its the crap gun or your technique that's not right. This will lead to frustration

I would assume that guns are like cars; it takes a few minutes to get used to each new one you use.
I would also tend to assume that a PPK is not a crap gun, is that correct? ?:)

Well that's a very expansive question isn't it?

The ppk is crap, for sniping ) if however you want something easily concealable and lightweight, then it's great. It all depends on what you want it for. Past 15yds I'd say the ppk would become a bit hit n miss tbh.

chrisisall

minigeff wrote:

Past 15yds I'd say the ppk would become a bit hit n miss tbh.

Is that because it won't shoot reliably straight past that distance?

minigeff

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Past 15yds I'd say the ppk would become a bit hit n miss tbh.

Is that because it won't shoot reliably straight past that distance?

It's because it's got a very short barrel mate.

Plus, a real ppk will have a rifled barrel. Fine spiral shaped grooves in the barrel (rifling) causes the bullet to spin as it passes down the barrel. The spinning bullet is more stable and thus has more accuracy at longer ranges.

Your BB gun will be smoothbore, ie no rifling so it'll lack the accuracy. More expensive BB guns have something called 'hop up' which is where the BB passes over a rubber pad, creating backspin. The BB then spins backwards (look up the bouncing bomb of Barnes Wallace's design for more info on 'backspin') and has slightly more range and accuracy.

My match air pistol had a match grade rifled walther barrel, and was accurate to 20yds. When I say accurate, I could easily hit a teaspoon at 10yds single handed. Held in a vice, at 10yds it will put pellets through the same hole repeatedly.

For the money, they're fun, but BB guns are not what I would call accurate. To become a good shot, you'll need something more accurate and consistent in performance than your BB gun.

I'm not trying to mock you or make you look daft, I'm hopefully giving you some good advice.

MG -{

chrisisall

minigeff wrote:

Plus, a real ppk will have a rifled barrel.
Your BB gun will be smoothbore, ie no rifling so it'll lack the accuracy.
For the money, they're fun, but BB guns are not what I would call accurate. To become a good shot, you'll need something more accurate and consistent in performance than your BB gun.

I will work my way up, but for right now, inside the house, at 10-15 feet, these BB guns are a fun start!

I'm not trying to mock you or make you look daft,

Not a bit of it, my friend! And I appreciate your great info & advice!! -{

chrisisall

Le Samourai wrote:

Google 'eye dominance test' and some other ways of determining your dominant eye will pop up.

Hey, tomorrow's my day off, and I've had a couple of beers, so I did two different tests quickly without over-thinking, and it came out left eye dominant both times. But I'm mostly right handed... so should I shoot righty or lefty? I can shoot left as well... is either way intrinsically better for left eye dominance in your opinion?

minigeff

chrisisall wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

Google 'eye dominance test' and some other ways of determining your dominant eye will pop up.

Hey, tomorrow's my day off, and I've had a couple of beers, so I did two different tests quickly without over-thinking, and it came out left eye dominant both times. But I'm mostly right handed... so should I shoot righty or lefty? I can shoot left as well... is either way intrinsically better for left eye dominance in your opinion?

Shoot with your dominant hand. I'm right eye and right hand dominant, but as I said before, I knew a guy who was left eye, right hand.

minigeff

Just seen over in the collecting forum that the red dot sight has been identified.

Leads me to a question though;

To what range can you use a red dot? I've always used tele's, diopters or iron's, and I know red dots are for closer ranges, but how far would you go out to? 25yds? 50? 75?

Obviously the size of the red dot covers a larger area at further ranges, but how good can it get until that dot starts to get too large to be an accurate aiming point?

chrisisall

minigeff wrote:

Obviously the size of the red dot covers a larger area at further ranges,

I thought a laser was coherent light, meaning the same size dot at any range, only atmosphere diminishes the brilliance. Am I wrong?

minigeff

chrisisall wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Obviously the size of the red dot covers a larger area at further ranges,

I thought a laser was coherent light, meaning the same size dot at any range, only atmosphere diminishes the brilliance. Am I wrong?

A little yeah.

A laser beam is conical shaped. Close to the source, the visible dot of the laser is small and sharp, the energy of the beam being relatively focused. As you travel away from the source, the beam gets wider, and the energy more dissipated. Eventually the energy dissipation and the dot's size becomes so large it's no longer visible.

A red dot sight is very different. A laser is pointed on a piece of glass in the sight. The glass is like a window which you view your target through. The red dot of the laser is imposed on the glass, over your view so you see a red dot on your target.

So, two very different things.

The trouble with lasers is you have to view them either by naked eye, or at range, through a scope. At long range, the red dot is huge, and that's no good for accurate shooting. The other issue is wobble. Imagine looking at a protractor, the difference in distance between a degree at the epicentre may only be a millimetre. However, on the edge of the protractor, it's much more as the degree increments fan out. A laser is the same, a tiny movement on the gun results in a massive wobble at distance. The idea of a sharp red dot of a sniper's sight slowly tracking across the room to rest gently on the head of a hit is utter codshit, besides, why use a targeting system your target can see? Isn't a sniper meant to be the silent unseen killer?

Anyhow, a red dot sight eliminates the wobble, but still a small movement on the gun results in a far distance travelled when targeting something at long range. They're more intended for close quarters or reaction speed shooting, hence my original question;

At what range can a red dot sight be used up to?