4. The World Is Not Enough
Brosnan's best, IMO. Its flaws are for sticking too much to the formula and not taking neccesary risks (like letting Bond be alone at the end, WITH NO BOND GIRL, ala QOS) and not havin Electra's death end the film. But even as it is, its pretty great, and a clear indication that Bond could survive at the box-office if he goes personal - and both CR and SF proved that.
3. Octopussy
I think most people don't appreciate how much serious is in this film. Yes, half of it is typical Roger Moore Bond, complete with an alligator submarine. But by being a follow-up to FEYO, it follows on that film's seriousness, and that is none more evident in Moore's most balanced performance as Bond since TSWLM - at once as heardened as in FEYO and as witty and lighthearted as in MR. This should've been his last Bond and for a good reason.
2. Die Another Day
I know all the arguments. And yeah, a lot of them make sense. But its still an enjoyable film,and the first half of it is a pretty great Bond film. Had the second half followed up on the first half's seriousness, it might've explored Bond as an aging agent (no pun intended) trying to find his place in the world, while trying to avenge his name. Of course that didn't happen, but its still nowhere near as the worst Bond, or one of the five worst even. I think the awesomeness of CR eclipsed its own accomplishments, but I think its good. Certainly silly, but not sillier than other Bonds, if more OTT. And, if nothing else, Brosnan doesn't dissapoint - OK, he's clearly bored in it in some scenes... But for most of it, he's at his A game. Its a good final performance for him, even if the film isn't as consistent in quality as his turn is.
1. Never Say Never Again
Its not an EON Production. So what? Can we take the film on its own merits? We know the story. And we know whats wrong with it - but shouldn't the inability, rather than unwillingness, of being presented as an EON film, and that company's continual sabotage of the film, make it sufficient for us to give it some slack? Lets get on with it. This is Connery's best performance since the film it remakes, and despite it being a remake, it feels like a great sequel to not only Connery's era, but of Bond in general. The villains are great, and Brandauer's Largo certainly the best Bond villain of the '80's up until the Tears of Allah sequence, and Fatima Blush is the definitive femme fatalle in the entire franchise. And Kershner really let his actors truly inhabit the roles, making his directing fresh in comparison to Glen's sterile AVTAK direction. Finally, Bond is a detective in the film, and the gadgets are few and far inbetween - and during the Moore era, wasn't that great to behold?
Whats really nerving, is how its influence is overlooked. In fact, its really obvious taht EON even took elements from this film, chiefly in GE, where they even took moments from that film wholesale (like Largo's forceful kiss on Domino). And that wouldn't happen had NSNA not been any good at all.
Live and Let Die -- Though not entirely underrated (LALD usually ends up in the "Top Ten") there are a number of people who think it's genuinely terrible. While the dated blaxploitation elements, comic relief (in the guise of Sheriff J.W. Pepper), and a certain inflatable death sequence don't do the film any favors, I still think it's tremendous entertainment.
Tomorrow Never Dies -- Kind of astonishes me that this one doesn't get much love; I honestly think it's nearly as good as GoldenEye, but then again it was my first Bond experience so there is some personal bias involved. The worst thing that I can say about TND is that the climax is kind of drudgery, and I grew tired of Brosnan as a one-man army, but that aside it all holds up rather well on repeat viewings.
The Man With The Golden Gun -- For a while this was my top choice for most underrated Bond film, but my last revisit has made me somewhat reconsider; Golden Gun, for all its mishaps, is never boring. Just about every scene with Christopher Lee is delightful, and hey, I actually like Nick Nack as well.
Moonraker -- Perhaps the only Bond film that walks a fine line between jaw-droppingly psychotic and downright brilliant. Too many are guilty of not giving this film enough credit where it's due, including me; Moonraker basically pushes the Bond formula to the breaking point, and for that alone, it is kind of awesome.
Octopussy -- Currently my number one choice for Most Underrated Bond Film; I am convinced that most people hate Octopussy solely because of the scene with the clown costume. Yes, there are awful sound effects too. But a bad film these do not make, for OP has enough solid acting and incredible stuntwork (some of the best in the entire franchise) to make it one of the stronger entries in the Roger Moore era.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
QOS- A great Bond film for me flaws and all (and there aren't that many). Craig once again knocks it out of the park as Bond, he's the best Bond when it comes to fights and just overall he rocks, the scene when he bleeds out the guy waiting to kill him is the most brutul Bond killing ever. The opening twenty minutes are awesome and the opera and ending scene are great too. Too dark for many Bond purists as they want shaken and stirred not Bond dark and brooding. Pity they are missing out on a mini classic in my eyes.
I find it a bit difficult honestly to come up with six underrated Bond films, whether underrated on AJB or underrated by people who aren't Bond nuts like us. I almost figure you have to make two lists: one for the former and one for the latter. On here, I say the following four films are frankly unnecessarily beaten to a pulp...
-Thunderball. Admittedly, you have uneven pacing in places and I prefer DN, FRWL, and even GF to it, but we're starting to see threads on how this was the worst Bond film of all time. Really? Worse than MR? DAD? C'mon, you still have Connery taking the role seriously and not bored with it, you get two of the series' best Bond girls, and quite frankly, no glaring plotholes. Does it have cliches in hindsight? Of course, but consider when the film was made. Honestly, YOLT probably ages poorer in terms of the actual plot.
-Octopussy. For all the film's flaws, I thought it was one of Moore's better entries. People refusing to watch it and then passing judgement over it as awful due to the fact that they "heard" Bond wears a clown suit as a disguise is quite silly. At least give it a try with an open mind. The flawed chase scene through the jungle and Maud Adams...probably the film's two genuinely weak elements...are often not even mentioned by some people. Yet, the criticism always returns to the clown suit sequence and the film is bashed for that and nothing but in some cases.
-The Man with the Golden Gun: Moore's attempt at a serious Bond portrayal is a bit erratic, but Christopher Lee is an outright terrific villain. Typically, you need two of three things to make a Bond film work: a good Bond, a good villain, and a good Bond girl, in that order. We get a solid Bond, a terrific villain, and while Mary Goodnight falls down, we DO get Maud Adams' exponentially better performance as a Bond girl. Sheriff Pepper and Nick-Nack honestly hurt the film for me, but for a while, you had this one showing up dead last. Honestly, Lee is so good and Moore is actually serious enough for a change that I think it worked as a middle of the pack Bond film; far from a terrible one.
-Diamonds Are Forever: Whenever I see "Connery was bored", I think the person wasn't paying THAT much attention. As I've said, DAF was an EON parody; a stealth adult comedy, basically. Connery, if anything, has FAR too much fun at his own expense (just watch the scene when he switches his ID with Peter Franks). Although the film suffers from DREADFUL release timing, what's done is done. You have to evaluate this one on the basis of its being its own film. The literal refusal of some people to do that has always surprised me. In no way was this film, on its own merits, the worst stand-alone Bond film ever made.
Honorable Mention: Goldfinger. Talk about fluctuating between overrated and underrated! But honestly, I think GF tends to be given a raw deal by some simply because it's picked out as an example of the franchise and was the first formulaic Bond. Of the next three films released, only one--YOLT--is a fomulaic Bond. Until DAF came along, GF was still a very different film. So different that it was presented as a sort of "it's all there" introductory Bond film well into the Moore era. The problem with any movie like this in any film franchise is that it starts drawing flak after a while. It starts getting picked apart for the sake of getting picked apart. And, one could argue, in the same way that it's overrated but still great, people attempting to shred the film simply because of its presentation makes it both overrated and underrated at the same time.
As for Bond fans who think Ian Fleming was the name of one of the AEF's commanding officers during WWI (or just don't care)? That's actually much easier...
I didn't think QOS was dark at all. The only darkness was at the Bond girl's past, but not in the overall atmosphere and tone of the film.
QOS is pretty dark in the Bond Cannon. Only LTK rivals it .
OK, where is that darkness? Because I sure can't see it.
I'd say QoS is more "violent" than "dark", although I agree that Camille's backstory is quite troubling (General Medrano would have made a fine central villain for that matter). There's a bit more blood, and that one gruesome moment of an axe making contact with Dominic Greene's foot... violent, yes, but not to be confused with "dark".
LTK, on the other hand... Leiter's wife is killed following their wedding day... Leiter himself is fed to sharks... Bond feeds a CIA traitor to the same sharks that maimed Leiter... Sharkey is killed and his captors mock his corpse... Krest begs for his life before succumbing to a decompression chamber (with gory results)... Dario is turned into shish kabob... oh, and last but not least, Sanchez is doused in petrol and lit on fire while screaming.
Pretty "dark" if you ask me. I don't think Quantum holds a candle.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
Thunderball
A View to A Kill
Moonraker
Quantum of Solace
Dr No
Octopussy
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I didn't think QOS was dark at all. The only darkness was at the Bond girl's past, but not in the overall atmosphere and tone of the film.
QOS is pretty dark in the Bond Cannon. Only LTK rivals it .
OK, where is that darkness? Because I sure can't see it.
I think the film has a pretty clear dark feel, especially in comparison to CR.
Dark elements for me:
MI6 in gloom and doom mode over the attempt on M
The whole, "we have to get in bed with awful people for oil" theme which casts a pall over everything
The discovery of rampant corruption/sleaze at the highest levels
Bond clearly depressed and/or angry, or at least operating with some very dark unspoken feelings under the surface
Death and disposal of Mathis
Leiter's disgust over CIA corruption
Attempted rape of the waitress in the hotel
The final confrontation of Yusef and an ending which is more measured closure rather than celebration.
1. TWINE - Brosnan's best; acting and direction were superb.
2. OP - A great, fun film; Moore's best IMO.
3. TLD/LTK - I've put TD's films together, as both are very good and do tend to get overlooked. A shame the man was caught up with all that legal wrangling; it would have been nice to see him do a couple more Bonds.
4. MR - Okay, so the film's extremely removed from Fleming (James Bond goes into outer space???), but accept it as escapist fare, and it's fun. Bonus: Jaws returns!!
5. YOLT - Yes, another overblown Bond film, but very well done, and we finally meet Blofeld.
6. OHMSS - Ah yes, the 007 film which Bond fans hardly talk about it public. By George, give the man some credit - he wasn't really that bad!!
"Well, he certainly left with his tails between his legs."
Moonraker - I can't describe how much I love this film.
TMWTGG
LTK
TB - what's with the dislike of TB? I watched it again recently and found it thrilling!
OHMSS
AVTAK
The ones I consider overrated are:
YOLT
DAF
OP
QoS
Goldeneye was my first at the cinema.
I love Moonraker because I was massively into space travel as a kid.
I did a project about the Apollo and Space shuttle missions at Primary school (I even wrote to NASA and got a reply) Moonraker mixed by two passions as a child space and 007.
Plus it's fun and I think Drax is one of the best villains. I recently directed a web series (Blood and Bone China) and asked the actor playing my villain to watch as many films as poss starring Michael Lonsdale.
One of the reasons I don't get on with DAF is because I only saw half of it as a kid.
I VHS recorded it while I was out but the tape ran out and I only ever saw up to where 007 is on top of the elevator in his tux. I didn't see the full version to many years later. So for me DAF isn't burned into my memory from childhood as the others are.
Comments
Brosnan's best, IMO. Its flaws are for sticking too much to the formula and not taking neccesary risks (like letting Bond be alone at the end, WITH NO BOND GIRL, ala QOS) and not havin Electra's death end the film. But even as it is, its pretty great, and a clear indication that Bond could survive at the box-office if he goes personal - and both CR and SF proved that.
3. Octopussy
I think most people don't appreciate how much serious is in this film. Yes, half of it is typical Roger Moore Bond, complete with an alligator submarine. But by being a follow-up to FEYO, it follows on that film's seriousness, and that is none more evident in Moore's most balanced performance as Bond since TSWLM - at once as heardened as in FEYO and as witty and lighthearted as in MR. This should've been his last Bond and for a good reason.
2. Die Another Day
I know all the arguments. And yeah, a lot of them make sense. But its still an enjoyable film,and the first half of it is a pretty great Bond film. Had the second half followed up on the first half's seriousness, it might've explored Bond as an aging agent (no pun intended) trying to find his place in the world, while trying to avenge his name. Of course that didn't happen, but its still nowhere near as the worst Bond, or one of the five worst even. I think the awesomeness of CR eclipsed its own accomplishments, but I think its good. Certainly silly, but not sillier than other Bonds, if more OTT. And, if nothing else, Brosnan doesn't dissapoint - OK, he's clearly bored in it in some scenes... But for most of it, he's at his A game. Its a good final performance for him, even if the film isn't as consistent in quality as his turn is.
1. Never Say Never Again
Its not an EON Production. So what? Can we take the film on its own merits? We know the story. And we know whats wrong with it - but shouldn't the inability, rather than unwillingness, of being presented as an EON film, and that company's continual sabotage of the film, make it sufficient for us to give it some slack? Lets get on with it. This is Connery's best performance since the film it remakes, and despite it being a remake, it feels like a great sequel to not only Connery's era, but of Bond in general. The villains are great, and Brandauer's Largo certainly the best Bond villain of the '80's up until the Tears of Allah sequence, and Fatima Blush is the definitive femme fatalle in the entire franchise. And Kershner really let his actors truly inhabit the roles, making his directing fresh in comparison to Glen's sterile AVTAK direction. Finally, Bond is a detective in the film, and the gadgets are few and far inbetween - and during the Moore era, wasn't that great to behold?
Whats really nerving, is how its influence is overlooked. In fact, its really obvious taht EON even took elements from this film, chiefly in GE, where they even took moments from that film wholesale (like Largo's forceful kiss on Domino). And that wouldn't happen had NSNA not been any good at all.
Tomorrow Never Dies -- Kind of astonishes me that this one doesn't get much love; I honestly think it's nearly as good as GoldenEye, but then again it was my first Bond experience so there is some personal bias involved. The worst thing that I can say about TND is that the climax is kind of drudgery, and I grew tired of Brosnan as a one-man army, but that aside it all holds up rather well on repeat viewings.
The Man With The Golden Gun -- For a while this was my top choice for most underrated Bond film, but my last revisit has made me somewhat reconsider; Golden Gun, for all its mishaps, is never boring. Just about every scene with Christopher Lee is delightful, and hey, I actually like Nick Nack as well.
Moonraker -- Perhaps the only Bond film that walks a fine line between jaw-droppingly psychotic and downright brilliant. Too many are guilty of not giving this film enough credit where it's due, including me; Moonraker basically pushes the Bond formula to the breaking point, and for that alone, it is kind of awesome.
Octopussy -- Currently my number one choice for Most Underrated Bond Film; I am convinced that most people hate Octopussy solely because of the scene with the clown costume. Yes, there are awful sound effects too. But a bad film these do not make, for OP has enough solid acting and incredible stuntwork (some of the best in the entire franchise) to make it one of the stronger entries in the Roger Moore era.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
QOS is pretty dark in the Bond Cannon. Only LTK rivals it .
-Thunderball. Admittedly, you have uneven pacing in places and I prefer DN, FRWL, and even GF to it, but we're starting to see threads on how this was the worst Bond film of all time. Really? Worse than MR? DAD? C'mon, you still have Connery taking the role seriously and not bored with it, you get two of the series' best Bond girls, and quite frankly, no glaring plotholes. Does it have cliches in hindsight? Of course, but consider when the film was made. Honestly, YOLT probably ages poorer in terms of the actual plot.
-Octopussy. For all the film's flaws, I thought it was one of Moore's better entries. People refusing to watch it and then passing judgement over it as awful due to the fact that they "heard" Bond wears a clown suit as a disguise is quite silly. At least give it a try with an open mind. The flawed chase scene through the jungle and Maud Adams...probably the film's two genuinely weak elements...are often not even mentioned by some people. Yet, the criticism always returns to the clown suit sequence and the film is bashed for that and nothing but in some cases.
-The Man with the Golden Gun: Moore's attempt at a serious Bond portrayal is a bit erratic, but Christopher Lee is an outright terrific villain. Typically, you need two of three things to make a Bond film work: a good Bond, a good villain, and a good Bond girl, in that order. We get a solid Bond, a terrific villain, and while Mary Goodnight falls down, we DO get Maud Adams' exponentially better performance as a Bond girl. Sheriff Pepper and Nick-Nack honestly hurt the film for me, but for a while, you had this one showing up dead last. Honestly, Lee is so good and Moore is actually serious enough for a change that I think it worked as a middle of the pack Bond film; far from a terrible one.
-Diamonds Are Forever: Whenever I see "Connery was bored", I think the person wasn't paying THAT much attention. As I've said, DAF was an EON parody; a stealth adult comedy, basically. Connery, if anything, has FAR too much fun at his own expense (just watch the scene when he switches his ID with Peter Franks). Although the film suffers from DREADFUL release timing, what's done is done. You have to evaluate this one on the basis of its being its own film. The literal refusal of some people to do that has always surprised me. In no way was this film, on its own merits, the worst stand-alone Bond film ever made.
Honorable Mention: Goldfinger. Talk about fluctuating between overrated and underrated! But honestly, I think GF tends to be given a raw deal by some simply because it's picked out as an example of the franchise and was the first formulaic Bond. Of the next three films released, only one--YOLT--is a fomulaic Bond. Until DAF came along, GF was still a very different film. So different that it was presented as a sort of "it's all there" introductory Bond film well into the Moore era. The problem with any movie like this in any film franchise is that it starts drawing flak after a while. It starts getting picked apart for the sake of getting picked apart. And, one could argue, in the same way that it's overrated but still great, people attempting to shred the film simply because of its presentation makes it both overrated and underrated at the same time.
As for Bond fans who think Ian Fleming was the name of one of the AEF's commanding officers during WWI (or just don't care)? That's actually much easier...
1. OHMSS
2. LTK
3. DN
4. TB. Yep, on both lists.
I'd say QoS is more "violent" than "dark", although I agree that Camille's backstory is quite troubling (General Medrano would have made a fine central villain for that matter). There's a bit more blood, and that one gruesome moment of an axe making contact with Dominic Greene's foot... violent, yes, but not to be confused with "dark".
LTK, on the other hand... Leiter's wife is killed following their wedding day... Leiter himself is fed to sharks... Bond feeds a CIA traitor to the same sharks that maimed Leiter... Sharkey is killed and his captors mock his corpse... Krest begs for his life before succumbing to a decompression chamber (with gory results)... Dario is turned into shish kabob... oh, and last but not least, Sanchez is doused in petrol and lit on fire while screaming.
Pretty "dark" if you ask me. I don't think Quantum holds a candle.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
A View to A Kill
Moonraker
Quantum of Solace
Dr No
Octopussy
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I think the film has a pretty clear dark feel, especially in comparison to CR.
Dark elements for me:
MI6 in gloom and doom mode over the attempt on M
The whole, "we have to get in bed with awful people for oil" theme which casts a pall over everything
The discovery of rampant corruption/sleaze at the highest levels
Bond clearly depressed and/or angry, or at least operating with some very dark unspoken feelings under the surface
Death and disposal of Mathis
Leiter's disgust over CIA corruption
Attempted rape of the waitress in the hotel
The final confrontation of Yusef and an ending which is more measured closure rather than celebration.
Licence to Kill
Tomorrow Never Dies
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Dr. No
Quantum of Solace
For Your Eyes Only
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
2. OP - A great, fun film; Moore's best IMO.
3. TLD/LTK - I've put TD's films together, as both are very good and do tend to get overlooked. A shame the man was caught up with all that legal wrangling; it would have been nice to see him do a couple more Bonds.
4. MR - Okay, so the film's extremely removed from Fleming (James Bond goes into outer space???), but accept it as escapist fare, and it's fun. Bonus: Jaws returns!!
5. YOLT - Yes, another overblown Bond film, but very well done, and we finally meet Blofeld.
6. OHMSS - Ah yes, the 007 film which Bond fans hardly talk about it public. By George, give the man some credit - he wasn't really that bad!!
Moonraker - I can't describe how much I love this film.
TMWTGG
LTK
TB - what's with the dislike of TB? I watched it again recently and found it thrilling!
OHMSS
AVTAK
The ones I consider overrated are:
YOLT
DAF
OP
QoS
2) The World Is Not Enough
3) A View to a Kill
4) You Only Live Twice
5) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
6) Die Another Day
TMWTGG
TB
LTK
AVTAK
LATD
Out of all the films there is only one I'm not keen
on and that's DAF and I'll still watch it because it's Bond (but not that often)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I love Moonraker because I was massively into space travel as a kid.
I did a project about the Apollo and Space shuttle missions at Primary school (I even wrote to NASA and got a reply) Moonraker mixed by two passions as a child space and 007.
Plus it's fun and I think Drax is one of the best villains. I recently directed a web series (Blood and Bone China) and asked the actor playing my villain to watch as many films as poss starring Michael Lonsdale.
One of the reasons I don't get on with DAF is because I only saw half of it as a kid.
I VHS recorded it while I was out but the tape ran out and I only ever saw up to where 007 is on top of the elevator in his tux. I didn't see the full version to many years later. So for me DAF isn't burned into my memory from childhood as the others are.
Probably because most people don't class it as underrated because it seems to be fairly liked on here?
I love it. One of the best for me too. And I actually like the score.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
The score for FYEO is brilliant. Classic 80's.
I really love it. I actually prefer the score over the film.
To each their own!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Quantum of Solace
Dr.No
You Only Live Twice
Never Say Never Again
License To Kill
Octopussy
-Dr. No
-Octopussy
-Live and Let Die
-You Only Live Twice
-Licence to Kill