QoS : A classic?

Muston

There are films (both Bond and non-Bond) that flop when first received but later find a fanbase on DVD/Blu-ray. When I first watched QoS in the cinema, my wife could see the frown spreading across my forehead as the initial disappointment of the film set in.

HOWEVER,

Buying and watching it on my own (probaby four times since I bought it) I've come to love the film! Never before have had we seen Bond as angry, hate ridden, vengeful as we did in QoS. There are some genuinely great moments in it. The pre-title sequence is fast. Bond holding Mathis as he dies and then dumping his body in the skip. The bit where Bond and Dom Greene stop and stare at each other in the theatre lobby. The moment when Bond is going to shoot Camille to spare her from burning alive is very strong, and the climax between Bond and Greene is also worth any Bond film.

It doesn't beat Casino Royale, but hopefully in time fans will watch this one again and appreciate it for what it is.

Sir Miles

I loved QoS from the very first time I saw it...and I watched it a lot in the cinema..and have seen it countless times on bluray since -{

Thunderpussy

QOS a Classic ? More an Old Banger. )
Just My Opinion Mind.

Thunderbird 2

QoS a classic? A classic piece of ****!

Sorry I really resent the bad editing and weird storyline! After CR-06, and waiting two years I expected more. The worst of all the Bond films because I literally can't watch it. The only redeeming quality (sort of) is it provides some narrative resolution to CR.

moonraker84

When i first saw it i did not rate it that high but last weekend i watched CR on the saturday and QOS on the sunday and i thought it was very good, not quite as good as CR but not far off imo.

I have heard a few people say that if you watch it back to back (or soon after) from CR then it is a lot more effective and i agree with this.

I thought Mr White was a great villain and would like to see him and the Quantum orgainization in future Bond films.

Napoleon Plural

Bits of it are good, but it's let down by its weakest links. No real resolution about Quantum, the info about it is offscreen, and the resolution about Vesper is a little convoluted, better if we'd had M's stuff about how she died to save Bond in this film rather than tagged on end of CR.

Other weak links is straying from its brief of a down to earth Bond in having freefall and CGI aeroplane dogfights, they bottle it. And it's still the Bond and M show a bit too much, I just don't find the dialogue they give M too clever, not as smart as it thinks it is.

Dutchfinger

It's also one of my least favorite Bond movies, and I too walked out of the cinema being dissapointed... But, who knows, maybe over the years it will age well... I think OHMSS left people walking out of the cinema being dissapointed as well back in '69. It didn't get a well reception at all, while right now, it is often ranked at the top of people's lists. (I'm not one of them, but just speaking for the main norm here.) Who knows, maybe years from now, new generations of fans will look back to it and (somehow) view this as a 'classic' as well, and rank it very high.

I have a feeling that it won't be going up much in my own personal ranking though...

Le Samourai

Count me as one who loved QoS right from the beginning. It's one of my favorites. I had no issue with the editing, and I'm not sure what was "weird" about the storyline.

Jarvio

I don't rate it, but I also don't hate it. As many mentioned, the storyline isn't very well executed. I found it to be far too vague, and the whole film just comes across as rushed and messy.

However, on the plus side, I love the burning building climax. I actually prefer QOS to CR (just). I think that CR is technically a better film, but it's just not for me, and I find it too long. QOS however is technically a weaker film, but I enjoy it more than CR somehow... and it never drags on.

Halcon

Great things about QOS-

one of best pts in my opinion, in fact i like 'another way to die' song and credits!
i thought the villians were pretty good between Greene and the general (very realistic and hateful), the suits are perfect, loved the goldfinger 'shoutout', the chase rooftop scene was great, final act was great...hate to admit it but the last scene between Bond and Vesper's old flame still confuses me a little...weak Bond girls and Craig's terrible hair were the only letdown.

Mr Beech

People seem to forget that while QoS was somewhat disappointing compared to CR, it still was very successful financially and overall had a positive response critically.

I think it is underrated here on the forums. It is a great, short, wrap-up if watched after CR (I did the Saturday CR, Sunday QoS thing recently). It had less focus on the writing, but the cinematography in several sequences, as well as the action, were mostly great.

I'd say take another look and consider that it is Bond as he is in a boiling rage and loneliness after CR and the film has great action merits and in some ways benefits from being a swifter story that clocks in shorter. It's a race to the edge and back with Bond after the sensitive and sweeping espionage/romance/action that Casino Royale explored in-depth.

Blackleiter

I wouldn't call QoS a "classic" by any means, but the movie has grown on me quite a bit since I first viewed it in the theater, largely because of Craig's performance.

Muston

Maybe it's because it is a revenge film that I like it so much? I love Licence To Kill which has a lot in common with QoS.

Virgil37

Blackleiter wrote:

I wouldn't call QoS a "classic" by any means, but the movie has grown on me quite a bit since I first viewed it in the theater, largely because of Craig's performance.

Same here, just saw it recently, along with CR, and liked it much better than first time in theatre. The climax is a little dissapointing and smallish, but in context, it couldn´t be an ending like CR, which IMO is one of the best ever. It now works for me. And Craig is there and fills every inch of the screen as no actor since Connery, really.

Moore Than

What's that sound I hear?.............Gobble!........Gobble!.........Gobble!

But seriously folks. Quantum of Solace is not a turkey but it is rather a mess. I particularly dislike the fast cut editing, the graphic killing of Slate, Bond dumping Mathis' body in the skip, and the attempted rape scene. On the other hand, I particularly like the opera scenes, the hotel scenes, and the scenes in Russia at the end of the film.

Ens007

Le Samourai wrote:

Count me as one who loved QoS right from the beginning. It's one of my favorites. I had no issue with the editing, and I'm not sure what was "weird" about the storyline.

I'm with you on this.

If I were to have a criticism, it would be that I don't think that Dominic Greene was menacing enough, (or his character utilised to the full) and I didn't see the point of his so-called henchman. The parachute episode was weak to say the least, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that I thought that Craig was actually very good throughout the film.

I actually liked the fast-paced editing and am probably alone in having Bond act like he did regarding dumping Mathis. In addition, I thought that the overall styling of the movie was superb - from Bond's clothing through to the Opera scenes and the Greene Party. The physicality that Craig has brought to the role is excellent and I don't think that the Bond charm is entirely missing in spite of this. There's also a few bits of humour that seem to be missed by the doom-sayers (the "I don't think he smoked" line still brings about a smile whenever I hear it).

Ok it's by no means a masterpiece and undoubtedly suffers due to the excellence of CR, but for me it certainly doesn't warrant ranking towards the bottom half of the series to date.

IcePak

I hated QOS when I saw it in the cinema. After recently rewatching it, I found I enjoyed it more. The opera scene, the villains, Craig's performance - all were good. My main criticism is the poor storyline, which has a lot of holes in it, and the climax is weak. It's moved up my list a few places from last place now. It's certainly not the best Bond film, but it's not the worst either.

zaphod

Mr Beech wrote:

People seem to forget that while QoS was somewhat disappointing compared to CR, it still was very successful financially and overall had a positive response critically.

I think it is underrated here on the forums. It is a great, short, wrap-up if watched after CR (I did the Saturday CR, Sunday QoS thing recently). It had less focus on the writing, but the cinematography in several sequences, as well as the action, were mostly great.

I'd say take another look and consider that it is Bond as he is in a boiling rage and loneliness after CR and the film has great action merits and in some ways benefits from being a swifter story that clocks in shorter. It's a race to the edge and back with Bond after the sensitive and sweeping espionage/romance/action that Casino Royale explored in-depth.

Most of the Skyfall reviews I have read reference the 'disappointing' QOS. Craig in an interview let out that they 'had got away with it' and quickly tried to recover. There is a general consensus that it was a let down in it's own terms and not just in relation to CR. Even Babs has accepted that 'there were problems'

Blackleiter

I agree with many of your views regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of QoS. Although I found some of the fast-paced editing to be annoying, I, too, was impressed by the scene in which Bond dumped Mathis. The way Craig played the scene, gently holding Mathis for a moment and letting a look of mourning flicker across his face, then steeling himself and coldly depositing his dead ally in the trash. Cruel? Perhaps, but not at all out of character for a trained assassin who is being pursued and facing potentially dire consequences if he didn't move on in a hurry. To me, that was one of the most striking scenes ever in a Bond film.

Ens007 wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

Count me as one who loved QoS right from the beginning. It's one of my favorites. I had no issue with the editing, and I'm not sure what was "weird" about the storyline.

I'm with you on this.

If I were to have a criticism, it would be that I don't think that Dominic Greene was menacing enough, (or his character utilised to the full) and I didn't see the point of his so-called henchman. The parachute episode was weak to say the least, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that I thought that Craig was actually very good throughout the film.

I actually liked the fast-paced editing and am probably alone in having Bond act like he did regarding dumping Mathis. In addition, I thought that the overall styling of the movie was superb - from Bond's clothing through to the Opera scenes and the Greene Party. The physicality that Craig has brought to the role is excellent and I don't think that the Bond charm is entirely missing in spite of this. There's also a few bits of humour that seem to be missed by the doom-sayers (the "I don't think he smoked" line still brings about a smile whenever I hear it).

Ok it's by no means a masterpiece and undoubtedly suffers due to the excellence of CR, but for me it certainly doesn't warrant ranking towards the bottom half of the series to date.

Ens007

Blackleiter wrote:

I agree with many of your views regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of QoS. Although I found some of the fast-paced editing to be annoying, I, too, was impressed by the scene in which Bond dumped Mathis. The way Craig played the scene, gently holding Mathis for a moment and letting a look of mourning flicker across his face, then steeling himself and coldly depositing his dead ally in the trash. Cruel? Perhaps, but not at all out of character for a trained assassin who is being pursued and facing potentially dire consequences if he didn't move on in a hurry. To me, that was one of the most striking scenes ever in a Bond film.

Ens007 wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:

Count me as one who loved QoS right from the beginning. It's one of my favorites. I had no issue with the editing, and I'm not sure what was "weird" about the storyline.

I'm with you on this.

If I were to have a criticism, it would be that I don't think that Dominic Greene was menacing enough, (or his character utilised to the full) and I didn't see the point of his so-called henchman. The parachute episode was weak to say the least, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that I thought that Craig was actually very good throughout the film.

I actually liked the fast-paced editing and am probably alone in having Bond act like he did regarding dumping Mathis. In addition, I thought that the overall styling of the movie was superb - from Bond's clothing through to the Opera scenes and the Greene Party. The physicality that Craig has brought to the role is excellent and I don't think that the Bond charm is entirely missing in spite of this. There's also a few bits of humour that seem to be missed by the doom-sayers (the "I don't think he smoked" line still brings about a smile whenever I hear it).

Ok it's by no means a masterpiece and undoubtedly suffers due to the excellence of CR, but for me it certainly doesn't warrant ranking towards the bottom half of the series to date.

Very well said sir. Couldn't sum up my own thoughts about the scene any better, as you've hit the nail truly on the head. -{

chrisisall

Mr Beech wrote:

I think it is underrated here on the forums. It is a great, short, wrap-up if watched after CR (I did the Saturday CR, Sunday QoS thing recently). It had less focus on the writing, but the cinematography in several sequences, as well as the action, were mostly great.

I agree.

Blackleiter

Thank you, my friend. I'm glad you agree. -{

Ens007 wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

I agree with many of your views regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of QoS. Although I found some of the fast-paced editing to be annoying, I, too, was impressed by the scene in which Bond dumped Mathis. The way Craig played the scene, gently holding Mathis for a moment and letting a look of mourning flicker across his face, then steeling himself and coldly depositing his dead ally in the trash. Cruel? Perhaps, but not at all out of character for a trained assassin who is being pursued and facing potentially dire consequences if he didn't move on in a hurry. To me, that was one of the most striking scenes ever in a Bond film.

Ens007 wrote:

I'm with you on this.

If I were to have a criticism, it would be that I don't think that Dominic Greene was menacing enough, (or his character utilised to the full) and I didn't see the point of his so-called henchman. The parachute episode was weak to say the least, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that I thought that Craig was actually very good throughout the film.

I actually liked the fast-paced editing and am probably alone in having Bond act like he did regarding dumping Mathis. In addition, I thought that the overall styling of the movie was superb - from Bond's clothing through to the Opera scenes and the Greene Party. The physicality that Craig has brought to the role is excellent and I don't think that the Bond charm is entirely missing in spite of this. There's also a few bits of humour that seem to be missed by the doom-sayers (the "I don't think he smoked" line still brings about a smile whenever I hear it).

Ok it's by no means a masterpiece and undoubtedly suffers due to the excellence of CR, but for me it certainly doesn't warrant ranking towards the bottom half of the series to date.

Very well said sir. Couldn't sum up my own thoughts about the scene any better, as you've hit the nail truly on the head. -{

BIG TAM

Watched QUANTUM OF SOLACE again last night. I warm to it the more I see it. I can't explain why. The same goes for THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH & DIE ANOTHER DAY. The editing's jarring but I can overlook it as a stylistic experiment. Perhaps Marc Forster meant it to be a visual representation of Bond's confused state of mind. That's my take on it anyway. I'm also finding Dominic Greene better, too. Mathieu Amalric has an oily grace. His diminutive stature & beady eyes remind me of a young Roman Polanski. I still think as an ideal it shouldn't be seen in isolation of CASINO ROYALE. It feels like a fast 102 minute coda to that film, not a stand alone tale. The worry may be that Bond 25 will suffer the same fate if it's a second-part companion piece to Bond 24 as threatened.

A question: When we first see Greene he's stamping a long strip of paper. What exactly is he doing? I can never work it out.

Bodie

Got to agree with Thunderbird 2 - classic piece of s***

After CR having been so brilliant QOS was such a disappointment. I went to see it with such high expectations and came out of the cinea almost totally disappointed. I saw CR 4 times and will be going back to SF but only went to QOS the once.

For me what was wrong with it:

The plot, what there was of it. Increasing the water prices in Bolivia. Bet that necessitated an emergency meeting at the White House and COBRA.
Mathieu Amalric totally wasted as Greene. With the right script Greene could have been Silva.
The henchmen. What henchmen - Elvis the village idiot.
The theme song. Dire. Great to see the songs back on track with SF.
The whole CIA conspiracy thing. Thats Bourne not Bond.
The killing of Mathis. WTF were the producers thinking. He was a great character.
Bond dumping Mathis's body in the dumpster. Come on thats like Bond chucking Kerim Bey's body out the train window.
The attempted rape. Totally out of place in a Bond movie.
Bond total lack of defending his actions to M. Why didn't he just say Slate came at me with a knife I had no choice but to kill him. Yes I threw a man of the roof but I thought he was one of Greene's men and he was alive when I left.
Cammile fairly unmemorable.

What was right with it:

Liked the PTS.
The Scienna chase with Mitchell was good and I didn't even mind the CGI fall.
Mr. White is a great character.
The opera scene was good.
The boat chase was good if not briliant.
Geoffrey Wright good as Felix.
The concept of Quantum being a group of rich and powerful men and women is much better for these times that the SPECTRE type concept of a group of criminals.

I understand the next two films will have a story arch and I hope they use this to conclude matters re Quantum.

Muston

'Bond dumping Mathis's body in the dumpster. Come on thats like Bond chucking Kerim Bey's body out the train window.'

I love that scene! :007) For me it was in line with Craig's take on Bond (could see Dalton's Bond doing the same.) Thoughout the whole film he is pissed off and single-minded in his goal of bringing down Quantum/avenging Vesper. What was Bond's other option in that scene? Drive the body around with him or just leave it in the street? As Craig says when asked if that's how he treats his friends? "He wouldn't care!" Brilliantly cold, brilliantly Bond.

SilentSpy

Muston wrote:

Buying and watching it on my own (probaby four times since I bought it) I've come to love the film! Never before have had we seen Bond as angry, hate ridden, vengeful as we did in QoS. There are some genuinely great moments in it. The pre-title sequence is fast. Bond holding Mathis as he dies and then dumping his body in the skip. The bit where Bond and Dom Greene stop and stare at each other in the theatre lobby. The moment when Bond is going to shoot Camille to spare her from burning alive is very strong, and the climax between Bond and Greene is also worth any Bond film.

It doesn't beat Casino Royale, but hopefully in time fans will watch this one again and appreciate it for what it is.

I agree that Quantum of Solace has some great scenes. I love the opening. It's one of the best. And I like all the scenes you mentioned except the body dump scene which I wrote a paragraph or so on somewhere in the forum. The music is pretty good too. However as a Bond movie as a whole it sucks. I've tried watching it many times. Quantum of Solace made the flaws in Casino Royale more apparent. I wrote a big post about the whole Mathis traitor situation. A lot of people think Licence to Kill is just a dumb action movie. Make no mistake, Licence to Kill has flaws. But I still feel like Dalton is playing Bond in the movie. Unlike Daniel Craig who becomes action hero around the time of the jet scene. The movie makes the biggest mistake in forgetting the meaning of Casino Royale's ending. Also, when the main actor starts to make excuses for the movie you know something is wrong. So, no Quantum of Solace is far from a classic and tied with Die Another Day for the worst Bond film.

Thunderpussy

I also find it hard to hear it described as a classic when both
Its Leading man and Director have said it didn't turn out
the way thay wanted and that with the writers strike they
had to cobble a script together.

chrisisall

SilentSpy wrote:

Quantum of Solace is far from a classic and tied with Die Another Day for the worst Bond film.

Upon further thought, MR is worse... by quite a long shot IMO.

Sir Miles

Thunderpussy wrote:

I also find it hard to hear it described as a classic when both
Its Leading man and Director have said it didn't turn out
the way thay wanted and that with the writers strike they
had to cobble a script together.

That's just pandering to the masses...telling them what they think they want to hear...they know they made a damn good Bond film...and it took a FORTUNE at the box office....so it can't be all bad

Lexi

Le Samourai wrote:

Count me as one who loved QoS right from the beginning. It's one of my favorites. I had no issue with the editing, and I'm not sure what was "weird" about the storyline.

Me too.... in fact it's a very close second for me, from CR and it's hard pushed to put SF in between....

I love QoS - the story was a bit complicated, BUT it worked (for me...) and I thought the locations were great, and Bond's relationship with Camille was interesting enough for us to care.

So yes, QoS is a classic for me.

Thunderpussy

I'm sorry Sir Miles but you are WRONG.
Not on this Point but just in General.

"Pandering to the masses" rhymes with
"Covering their asses" )