Bond couldn't arrange a decent funeral for dead Mathis (after making peace with him) when not only was MI6 and the CIA after him at the time, but also half the Bolivian military and police (in addition to their Quantum allies).
In the Craig series so-far, it seems that Quantum of Solace seems to be the troubled middle sibling between CR (the best Bond movie in the past quater of a century) and Skyfall (a very solid third entry in the Craig series), but to put things into perspective it was still a relatively good Bond movie and didn't get laughed out of town quite like Brosnan's Die Another Day was (and the four year gap was more down to deeper problems within MGM rather than QoS's performance).
While their scheme of water extortion and backing a Third World thug was a bit routine, the Quantum organisation could easily come back and is generally a great story idea (and it could be revealed in the next movie that they were a major sponsor backing Silva financially and logistically in his vendetta against MI6).
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
Quantum of Solace is far from a classic and tied with Die Another Day for the worst Bond film.
Upon further thought, MR is worse... by quite a long shot IMO.
I can watch the whole of Moonraker unlike Quantum of Solace. Also, I love the music in Moonraker. I wrote a post about Moonraker before. How it works as a sequel to The Spy Who Loved Me and as a fantasy, dreamlike Bond movie. Believe me Moonraker and TMWTGG were at the bottom of my list. Until Die Another Day and Quantum of Solace. Two Bond movies I have zero interest in watching as a whole. Just parts, for example the chase scenes in both movies.
I also find it hard to hear it described as a classic when both
Its Leading man and Director have said it didn't turn out
the way thay wanted and that with the writers strike they
had to cobble a script together.
That's just pandering to the masses...telling them what they think they want to hear...they know they made a damn good Bond film...and it took a FORTUNE at the box office....so it can't be all bad
Actually it isn't. Daniel Craig had no reason to come out and say Quantum of Solace had problems. The masses and people who don't like the classic Bond films, actually like Quantum of Solace. Plus, making a lot of money at the box office does not equal good movie. Transformers movies make tons of money and those are horrible.
"Better late than never."
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
The masses and people who don't like the classic Bond films, actually like Quantum of Solace. Plus, making a lot of money at the box office does not equal good movie. Transformers movies make tons of money and those are horrible.
That is YOUR opinion....plenty of others like the Transformer films...THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE MONEY 8-)
And that's why QoS took a fortune at the box office....because people liked it and went back to see it...again and again...simples ! B-)
So...you are saying I'm wrong and the film DIDN'T take a fortune at the box office
Not getting into this one since we pretty much agreed to disagree on QoS, but what I believe he means is that you can never measure quality of a film by the money it makes at the box office. You can measure hype and promotion that way, but not much else. A great example within the Bond franchise would be Die Another Day...which is at or near the bottom of about 75% of the lists in the Top 20 thread. A much more egregious example might be Godzilla, as in, the 1998 American version. Made LOADS of money at the box office, generally considered a horrible film. Then there's pretty much the entire Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. My one and only point is that making money at the box office does not equal quality. For an example of a very good Bond film that did somewhat weakly at the box office, there's License to Kill. An even more extreme example for a film outside the Bond franchise would be The Wizard of Oz, which barely made its money back until it was re-released a decade after the initial release.
By the way, are you gonna eat that?
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
So...you are saying I'm wrong and the film DIDN'T take a fortune at the box office
Not getting into this one since we pretty much agreed to disagree on QoS, but what I believe he means is that you can never measure quality of a film by the money it makes at the box office. You can measure hype and promotion that way, but not much else. A great example within the Bond franchise would be Die Another Day...which is at or near the bottom of about 75% of the lists in the Top 20 thread. A much more egregious example might be Godzilla, as in, the 1998 American version. Made LOADS of money at the box office, generally considered a horrible film. Then there's pretty much the entire Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. My one and only point is that making money at the box office does not equal quality. For an example of a very good Bond film that did somewhat weakly at the box office, there's License to Kill. An even more extreme example would be The Wizard of Oz, which barely made its money back until it was re-released a decade after the initial release.
I fully understood his viewpoint....but there must be a valid REASON why people went back to watch QoS...apart from it being a Bond film that is....
Hype and promotion are much more complex...even a hyped and heavily promoted film will only do so much business if it gets terrible reviews...
I'm not looking for arguements either...I love QoS and nobody can change my mind on that...if you don't like it - fine...move on...
If Casino Royale is Bonds Re-Birth. Does that mean
QOS is the afterbirth ? )
Huh huh huh. 8-)
Quantum of Solace at least blew Die Another Day out the water with its Bond girls - Gemma Arterton ties in with Eva Green as the most attractive Bond lady so-far in the Craig films and Olga Kurylenko was a refreshing change by not banging Bond. I quite liked that weirdo henchman Elvis for what he was (and Anatole Taubman was pretty good in The Pillars of the Earth and also had a small role as a Nazi SS officer in Captain America).
Moonraker was better than Die Another Day in that it had better production designs (Ked Adam's sets were vastly superior to the silly ice palace, NK aircraft, and face clinic) and Hugo Drax's shuttles were much more convincing than the Icarus related stuff. It was an OK sci-fi movie along the lines of The Black Hole, but bad as a Bond film.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
Hype and promotion are much more complex...even a hyped and heavily promoted film will only do so much business if it gets terrible reviews...
Actually, I should have clarified hype: as in word of mouth hype and/or getting rave reviews for certain aspects of the film (as the 1998 version of Godzilla did and every one of the Star Wars prequels did in both cases). Anything the studio did, I meant to cover using "promotion".
there must be a valid REASON why people went back to watch QoS
Jurassic Park III comes to mind as a film that was a box office success, was initially well-liked, and then just fell apart in virtually all ways. If you went for a second viewing, and I didn't know anyone who didn't because you needed two viewings to drink it in/it seemed promising, you almost universally came away with a lower opinion of the film the second time around, again at least regarding nearly everyone I knew.
Without critiquing QoS, I CAN say that a lot of my friends went back due to the film's fast pacing/to be able to "drink in" the film better the second time around. Honestly, any fast-paced film with a lot of promise (and QoS sure did have that, at least...) that isn't beaten to death by critics stands a pretty good chance of being a box office success. A really good example of the "hang-on-I-missed-it-so-I'm-going-back-again" phenomenon would be Last Action Hero if you're not aiming too high or, if you combine a good film with fast pacing plus that effect and aim really high to get a real blockbuster that is regardless probably a bit inflated, Kill Bill Volume I.
People just need to learn to appreciate it for what it is. In my opinion I think it is just the second part of the Casino Royale story. No it doesn't beat that film and yes QoS is perhaps paced a bit too fast but it has some great moments and has a nice clean and well rounded out ending.
People just need to learn to appreciate it for what it is. In my opinion I think it is just the second part of the Casino Royale story. No it doesn't beat that film and yes QoS is perhaps paced a bit too fast but it has some great moments and has a nice clean and well rounded out ending.
It may be a bit too early to say this, as I've only seen the latest film once so far, but I actually think I prefer Quantum to Skyfall, a little bit (with Casino Royale being the best of the three).
There's a line Camille uses to describe Bond: 'There's something terribly efficient about you.' I think that line describes the film itself pretty accurately. It's a tight, ruthless revenge flick, and I love it.
The only thing I would really change is to pad the action scenes with more location scenery.
There's a line Camille uses to describe Bond: 'There's something terribly efficient about you.' I think that line describes the film itself pretty accurately. It's a tight, ruthless revenge flick, and I love it.
Considering the circumstances under which it was produced, it's an amazingly good flick IMO.
It may be a bit too early to say this, as I've only seen the latest film once so far, but I actually think I prefer Quantum to Skyfall, a little bit (with Casino Royale being the best of the three).
There's a line Camille uses to describe Bond: 'There's something terribly efficient about you.' I think that line describes the film itself pretty accurately. It's a tight, ruthless revenge flick, and I love it.
The only thing I would really change is to pad the action scenes with more location scenery.
I may be with you on this. I really liked QoS - I loved the characters... and the relationship with Camille and Bond... and I just feel that Skyfall fell short on us getting emotionally attached to any of them. (Apart from M and Bond of course)
I'm going to see SF again next week (hopefully) so that might help me make my mind up )
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
I'm not a fan of QOS, to me it doesn't feel like a 'classic' Bond film like Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights, Goldeneye or Casino Royale, so I wouldn't qualify it as a 'classic.' There are a few scenes I love but a lot more that I don't like. What I don't understand is why people on this forum (and in every other conversation/discussion lately) mistake opinion for fact. The FACT that you don’t or do like something does not make it true.
I do not like Craig as Bond as much as most people. I think he is a great actor (I have seen a few of his other films and I think he is great in those) just not what I envision as Bond. Maybe it is because of the fact that he is short, blond and has too much of an action hero physique IMHO or the direction the movies are taking as a whole, I just like the older movies better. However, I loved CR because it was a great 007 movie IMHO so I could handle with an actor that wasn't my ideal Bond. QOS on the other hand is one of my least favourites because of the lack in Bond being Bond. I don't like the addition of Fields just because Bond needs to **** at least one woman in a movie, I was really sad to see Mathis die while he was a character that reappears in quite a few Fleming novels (I was hoping he would be a recurring character because I liked the actor playing him and missed quite a few scenes that appeared in the CR novel that didn't made it into the movie) I thought he would be a character like Leiter, appearing once in a while when it was appropriate.
The masses and people who don't like the classic Bond films, actually like Quantum of Solace. Plus, making a lot of money at the box office does not equal good movie. Transformers movies make tons of money and those are horrible.
That is YOUR opinion....plenty of others like the Transformer films...THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE MONEY 8-)
And that's why QoS took a fortune at the box office....because people liked it and went back to see it...again and again...simples ! B-)
I guess that makes you a Transformers fan ) All reviews are based off opinion. It just depends on where you are coming from. I like robot stuff and will watch Transformers for the action. But they are horrible movies.
But I still say Box Office is not an indicator of a good movie. There are "event" movies which people go to because they think they are supposed to. Or it's summer time and they go to whatever the masses watch during the summer. Sure there are people who are repeat viewers. But it's hard to determine the percentage and varies by movie. Actual tickets sold is a better indicator with varying ticket prices today. But sometimes good movies don't find the mass market. The Wachowskis Speed Racer is great but a box office flop. Cloud Atlas seems to be going that way too even though I'll be seeing it soon. DVD/Blu-ray sales are kind of better at determining a good movie but even then with low prices some "blind buy" before renting or reading reviews.
To illustrate something else. Movies like the Star Wars prequels are good examples. Tons of people who aren't even interested in space fantasy movies go to see them. Are they good? No way. But they made a lot of money.
"Better late than never."
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
I guess that makes you a Transformers fan ) All reviews are based off opinion. It just depends on where you are coming from. I like robot stuff and will watch Transformers for the action. But they are horrible movies.
A fan ? I've seen them all and I own each of them on bluray....I think they are good 'popcorn' movies....I enjoy them...but it 'stops' there for me...no obsessing...no collecting )
But I still say Box Office is not an indicator of a good movie. There are "event" movies which people go to because they think they are supposed to. Or it's summer time and they go to whatever the masses watch during the summer. Sure there are people who are repeat viewers. But it's hard to determine the percentage and varies by movie. Actual tickets sold is a better indicator with varying ticket prices today. But sometimes good movies don't find the mass market. The Wachowskis Speed Racer is great but a box office flop. Cloud Atlas seems to be going that way too even though I'll be seeing it soon. DVD/Blu-ray sales are kind of better at determining a good movie but even then with low prices some "blind buy" before renting or reading reviews.
Yeah...people ARE idiots )
[quote=SilentSpy[/i]To illustrate something else. Movies like the Star Wars prequels are good examples. Tons of people who aren't even interested in space fantasy movies go to see them. Are they good? No way. But they made a lot of money.[/quote]
Why did they make a lot of money ? Not so much through ticket sales as merchandise sales....I managed to see the first prequel two or three months before general release....it was bloody sh!te....so I didn't bother to see it at the cinema...or any of the other two either...a fool and their money are easily parted...
Comments
In the Craig series so-far, it seems that Quantum of Solace seems to be the troubled middle sibling between CR (the best Bond movie in the past quater of a century) and Skyfall (a very solid third entry in the Craig series), but to put things into perspective it was still a relatively good Bond movie and didn't get laughed out of town quite like Brosnan's Die Another Day was (and the four year gap was more down to deeper problems within MGM rather than QoS's performance).
While their scheme of water extortion and backing a Third World thug was a bit routine, the Quantum organisation could easily come back and is generally a great story idea (and it could be revealed in the next movie that they were a major sponsor backing Silva financially and logistically in his vendetta against MI6).
QOS is the afterbirth ?
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I can watch the whole of Moonraker unlike Quantum of Solace. Also, I love the music in Moonraker. I wrote a post about Moonraker before. How it works as a sequel to The Spy Who Loved Me and as a fantasy, dreamlike Bond movie. Believe me Moonraker and TMWTGG were at the bottom of my list. Until Die Another Day and Quantum of Solace. Two Bond movies I have zero interest in watching as a whole. Just parts, for example the chase scenes in both movies.
Actually it isn't. Daniel Craig had no reason to come out and say Quantum of Solace had problems. The masses and people who don't like the classic Bond films, actually like Quantum of Solace. Plus, making a lot of money at the box office does not equal good movie. Transformers movies make tons of money and those are horrible.
So...you are saying I'm wrong and the film DIDN'T take a fortune at the box office ?:)
That is YOUR opinion....plenty of others like the Transformer films...THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE MONEY 8-)
And that's why QoS took a fortune at the box office....because people liked it and went back to see it...again and again...simples ! B-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Not getting into this one since we pretty much agreed to disagree on QoS, but what I believe he means is that you can never measure quality of a film by the money it makes at the box office. You can measure hype and promotion that way, but not much else. A great example within the Bond franchise would be Die Another Day...which is at or near the bottom of about 75% of the lists in the Top 20 thread. A much more egregious example might be Godzilla, as in, the 1998 American version. Made LOADS of money at the box office, generally considered a horrible film. Then there's pretty much the entire Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. My one and only point is that making money at the box office does not equal quality. For an example of a very good Bond film that did somewhat weakly at the box office, there's License to Kill. An even more extreme example for a film outside the Bond franchise would be The Wizard of Oz, which barely made its money back until it was re-released a decade after the initial release.
I fully understood his viewpoint....but there must be a valid REASON why people went back to watch QoS...apart from it being a Bond film that is....
Hype and promotion are much more complex...even a hyped and heavily promoted film will only do so much business if it gets terrible reviews...
I'm not looking for arguements either...I love QoS and nobody can change my mind on that...if you don't like it - fine...move on...
Huh huh huh. 8-)
Quantum of Solace at least blew Die Another Day out the water with its Bond girls - Gemma Arterton ties in with Eva Green as the most attractive Bond lady so-far in the Craig films and Olga Kurylenko was a refreshing change by not banging Bond. I quite liked that weirdo henchman Elvis for what he was (and Anatole Taubman was pretty good in The Pillars of the Earth and also had a small role as a Nazi SS officer in Captain America).
Moonraker was better than Die Another Day in that it had better production designs (Ked Adam's sets were vastly superior to the silly ice palace, NK aircraft, and face clinic) and Hugo Drax's shuttles were much more convincing than the Icarus related stuff. It was an OK sci-fi movie along the lines of The Black Hole, but bad as a Bond film.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Actually, I should have clarified hype: as in word of mouth hype and/or getting rave reviews for certain aspects of the film (as the 1998 version of Godzilla did and every one of the Star Wars prequels did in both cases). Anything the studio did, I meant to cover using "promotion".
Jurassic Park III comes to mind as a film that was a box office success, was initially well-liked, and then just fell apart in virtually all ways. If you went for a second viewing, and I didn't know anyone who didn't because you needed two viewings to drink it in/it seemed promising, you almost universally came away with a lower opinion of the film the second time around, again at least regarding nearly everyone I knew.
Without critiquing QoS, I CAN say that a lot of my friends went back due to the film's fast pacing/to be able to "drink in" the film better the second time around. Honestly, any fast-paced film with a lot of promise (and QoS sure did have that, at least...) that isn't beaten to death by critics stands a pretty good chance of being a box office success. A really good example of the "hang-on-I-missed-it-so-I'm-going-back-again" phenomenon would be Last Action Hero if you're not aiming too high or, if you combine a good film with fast pacing plus that effect and aim really high to get a real blockbuster that is regardless probably a bit inflated, Kill Bill Volume I.
The Sir Miles Being Wrong In general was also a Joke, I've learned by now
that You are always Right
( This too is a Joke )
Some of us Love it ,some of us Hate it. I imagine it will be argued over for
years to come. If not I'll keep adding posts to start an argument.
My last word about Films making Money, There is an Old saying.
"Millions of flys eat Sh*te, It doesn't mean I have to "
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
There's a line Camille uses to describe Bond: 'There's something terribly efficient about you.' I think that line describes the film itself pretty accurately. It's a tight, ruthless revenge flick, and I love it.
The only thing I would really change is to pad the action scenes with more location scenery.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I may be with you on this. I really liked QoS - I loved the characters... and the relationship with Camille and Bond... and I just feel that Skyfall fell short on us getting emotionally attached to any of them. (Apart from M and Bond of course)
I'm going to see SF again next week (hopefully) so that might help me make my mind up
I do not like Craig as Bond as much as most people. I think he is a great actor (I have seen a few of his other films and I think he is great in those) just not what I envision as Bond. Maybe it is because of the fact that he is short, blond and has too much of an action hero physique IMHO or the direction the movies are taking as a whole, I just like the older movies better. However, I loved CR because it was a great 007 movie IMHO so I could handle with an actor that wasn't my ideal Bond. QOS on the other hand is one of my least favourites because of the lack in Bond being Bond. I don't like the addition of Fields just because Bond needs to **** at least one woman in a movie, I was really sad to see Mathis die while he was a character that reappears in quite a few Fleming novels (I was hoping he would be a recurring character because I liked the actor playing him and missed quite a few scenes that appeared in the CR novel that didn't made it into the movie) I thought he would be a character like Leiter, appearing once in a while when it was appropriate.
I guess that makes you a Transformers fan
But I still say Box Office is not an indicator of a good movie. There are "event" movies which people go to because they think they are supposed to. Or it's summer time and they go to whatever the masses watch during the summer. Sure there are people who are repeat viewers. But it's hard to determine the percentage and varies by movie. Actual tickets sold is a better indicator with varying ticket prices today. But sometimes good movies don't find the mass market. The Wachowskis Speed Racer is great but a box office flop. Cloud Atlas seems to be going that way too even though I'll be seeing it soon. DVD/Blu-ray sales are kind of better at determining a good movie but even then with low prices some "blind buy" before renting or reading reviews.
To illustrate something else. Movies like the Star Wars prequels are good examples. Tons of people who aren't even interested in space fantasy movies go to see them. Are they good? No way. But they made a lot of money.
A fan ? I've seen them all and I own each of them on bluray....I think they are good 'popcorn' movies....I enjoy them...but it 'stops' there for me...no obsessing...no collecting
Yeah...people ARE idiots
[quote=SilentSpy[/i]To illustrate something else. Movies like the Star Wars prequels are good examples. Tons of people who aren't even interested in space fantasy movies go to see them. Are they good? No way. But they made a lot of money.[/quote]
Why did they make a lot of money ? Not so much through ticket sales as merchandise sales....I managed to see the first prequel two or three months before general release....it was bloody sh!te....so I didn't bother to see it at the cinema...or any of the other two either...a fool and their money are easily parted...
I'd see as firmly in the middle of the pack, like the dated GoldenEye.