SkyFall in the time line
barlowdjb
Posts: 22MI6 Agent
Hi Guys new to this as wanted to join to ask a question, where does skyfall fit in the timeline of james bond. as CR and QOS are set before Dr No as bond is first starting out, but then in SkyFall M knows about the Aston Martin DB5 which i thought was odd considering he only won it in a bet in CR, but then at the end of the film, monneypenny and M's office layout looks exactly the same in Sean Connerys era so got me all confused. anyone any ideas,
loved the film by the way and the Aston Martin DB5
loved the film by the way and the Aston Martin DB5
Comments
I think like the rest of us you will have to stay confused. Continuity has never been big in Bond movies and it has gone right out of the window since the reboot.
CR is meant to be JB year zero yet we have the same M as under PB. OK Judi Dench was too good to get rid of but it dented the reboot being a total new start from day 1.
In CR Bond is meant not to have come from money and gone to Oxford by someone else paying for it, yet in SF his family own half of Scotland.
In CR he won the Astin from Dimitrios which is fine. Its a classic car so someone rich could easily own one. Yet in SF the Astin is obviously an MI6 car with all the gadgets. Bond states he is using the Astin becasue 'company cars have trackers' which initially lead me to believe that this was the car he had won from Dimitrios, yet this one had machine guns and an ejector seat which M knows about so you think Q branch.
By the end of QOS Bond had only completed 4 missions as a 00 yet in SF everyone is talking about him as the old Bond. To quote Silva 'is there nothing of the old 007 left'.
Best thing to do is just go with the flow.
This might be a shock to some people, but Bond is not real…. He is a fictional character.
Hold the phone ... I think you could be on to something here!!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Moneypenney was known in Dr No, so it has to take place after SF, but then what about the Aston, could it be that GF happened before Dr NO ?
Well nothing says that GF happened after Dr No after all. Bond would not travel to Jamaica with the DB5 even if he had been issued it.
I think the DB5 is the one from GF, even if it used to be an MI6 car, it would have been put to storage to be replaced by the DBS, Lotus and so on. Then they wouldn't likely have retro-fit the DB5 with a homing GPS.
But this is all speculation. As stated above, it's too difficult to look for continuity in a 50-year franchise, think of the Blofeld trilogy that doesn't make sense.
Actually - there is. When Bond greets Q in GF the dialogue goes like this:
Bond: "Where's my Bentley?"
Q: "It's had it's day I'm afraid."
Bond: "It's never let me down before."
Q: "M's orders, 007. You'll be using this Aston Martin DB-5 with modifications."
Note Bond can be seen with his Bentley when he's with Sylvia Trench in FRWL.
+1
With Craig´s Bond it´s more complicated (or simpler). CR is his first mission, he was born in 1968, he hasn´t married (no OHMSS yet). No need to imagine Connery´s movies in a different timeline. They didn´t happen yet. Or some might have, but we haven´t been told that story of Craig´s Bond against Goldfinger, which happened between QoS and SF. He had Q branch modify the car he won in CR and used it against Goldfinger in 2009-2010-2011. If Honey Rider had been mentioned in SF, I would assume he battled Dr. No already.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
So Do I. Like the new Star Trek Films. All Bonds past exploits have Never
Happened in this Bond Universe. " A Renaissance, a Re-Birth " to quote Drax.
With Skyfall they've looped time-wise, as the Skyfall DB5 is not any old one, but with the GF number plate.
In the films there are 2 other DB5s. PB's in Goldeneye BMT 214A and the one from the Bahamas which was left hand drive. The Skyfall car is the 1st RHDrive car we've seen DC use.
Re-introducing Moneypenny, Q and a male M is good, but confuses compared with the 1960s originals in the early films.
Will EON continue making up stories or revisit the original novel stories?
Bleuville.
The last time I felt like this was when I was told that Santa Claus doesn't really exist.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes he is real. Because I've just seen him. On my TV screen
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
-The ending of the film implys that Judi Dench's M is replaced by Ray Fiennes/ Bernard Lee's M but in TWINE there's a photo of Bernard Lee on the wall
- Mallory's new office as M is the same as the one in Dr. No yet in Goldeneye, it is implied M still uses that office but it's been re-decorated
- From Goldeneye to Die Another Day, Judi Dench's M has a Moneypenny yet it implys she only comes in after Mallory becomes M
In terms of the Aston Martin DB5, I blame Casino Royale. If they hadn't made Bond win the car as a bet, it would be more fitting/believable. Though saying that, the Aston Martin Vanguish/Vanish could've been used just as easy in Skyfall. It's not conspicuous like M said about the DB5, the fact it is an Aston Martin still harks back to old Bond but it's just modernised (as Skyfall is meant to be) and Bond could've made the car vanish and then fired out of it when Silva first arrived.
At the end of the day though, if you put all this to one side, it's a great film which is all that matters.
1st. casino royale (2006)
2nd. quantum of solace (2008) --past-connection>> Casino Royale a:walther ppk, bond, M, Rene Mathis and Mr. White from Casino Royale b:bond is seeking revenge for the death of Vesper Lynd from Casino Royale
(Note: 1st and 2nd are the JB reboot in hype and style, such that I assumed 1st and 2nd mean IF AND ONLY IF bond began in mi6 in the post 9/11, the current head of mi6 is the lady M, but said "In the old days if an agent did something that's embarrassing, he'd have a good sense to defect. Christ, I miss the Cold War" and this means bond didn't worked in mi6 under the 1st male M, and the Cold War has already ended long ago, so there's no way for anyone in this universe would tell bond in the future that he's a relic of the Cold War - so I ignored 2006-2008 time, relative world history and technology, Felix Leiter and the lady M, to place the real Casino Royale in the original timeline, which logically places first; assumed there's CIA involved to help but no Felix Leiter joined the casino and known to bond yet, and there's even no 1964 aston martin yet in the world; and assumed there's Le Chiffre, Bill Tanner, 1st male M and Moneypenny, as not even pertaining to the characters that made up non-eon Casino Royale in 1967)
3rd. dr. no (1962)
(Note: I assumed bond introduced to Felix Leiter for the first time in Dr. No, ignoring every fact from Casino Royale which persists Felix Leiter)
4th. from russia with love (1963) --past-connection>> Dr. No a:(assumed first) M, Moneypenny and Felix Leiter from Dr. No b:spectre, the organization mentioned by Julius No from Dr. No, to gain revenge on bond for the killing of Julius No
5th. goldfinger (1964) --past-connection>> FRWL a:Boothroyd, the (assumed first) Q, from FRWL b:bond speaks of his bentley from FRWL and replacing it w/ 1964 aston martin w/ modifications by Q
6th. thunderball (1965) --past-connection>> FRWL & GF a:the modified aston martin from GF b:2nd cameo appearance of blofeld, head of spectre, from FRWL
7th. you live only twice (1967) --past-connection>> TB a:blofeld from TB revealed at last
8th. on her majesty's secret service (1969) --past-connection>> YLOT a:blofeld from YLOT w/ plastic surgery to improve his appearance but his neck broken in the end
9th. diamonds are forever (1971) --past-connection>> OHMSS a:blofeld from OHMSS made like clones of himself w/ each one has hair, to confuse bond
(Note: I assumed the arrested Ernst Stavro Blofeld in Diamonds are Forever is not, the real Blofeld had his neck broken in 1969, still on the loose, and didn't recovered from his broken neck)
10th. live and let die (1973) --past-connection>> Dr. No a:quarrel jr. is bond's ally, the son of quarrel who was bond's ally from Dr. No
11th. the man with the golden gun (1974) --past-connection>> LALD a:Sheriff J.W. Pepper from LALD met bond for 2nd time
12th. the spy who loved me (1977) --past-connection>> OHMSS a:Anya Amasova told bond that she knows the fact he was married once and his wife murdered, referring to bond's wife from OHMSS
13th. moonraker (1979) --past-connection>> TSWLM a:jaws & Frederick Gray from TSWLM b:Gogol, the head of kgb, from TSWLM
14th. for your eyes only (1981) --past-connection>> OHMSS, TMWTGG, TSWLM and MR a:blofeld from OHMSS killed by bond b:bond lays flowers to the grave of his wife Teresa Draco a.k.a Tracy from OHMSS w/ an imprint died 1969 c:Bill Tanner from TMWTGG directly gives bond an assignment because (assumed first) M from MR had died d:the modified 1976 lotus esprit from TSWLM exploded
15th. octopussy (1983) --past-connection>> TSWLM & FYEO a:Hargreaves, an admiral from TSWLM, as the new (assumed second) M b:Gogol from FYEO to stop Orlov
16th. a view to a kill (1985) --past-connection>> OP a:(assumed second) M from OP b:Gogol from OP to stop Max Zorin
17th. the living daylights (1987) AVTAK a:Gogol from AVTAK, succeeded by Pushkin as head of kgb
18th. licence to kill (1989) --past-connection>> OHMSS, Diamonds are Forever and TLDL a:bond successfully tilted the 18-wheeler truck to dodge an incoming stinger missile, a 'step-up' of his knowledge on how he did to tilt the 1971 ford mustang in Diamonds are Forever b:Felix Leiter from TLDL, turned working w/ DEA, has leg bitten off by Franz Sanchez's tiger shark c:Felix Leiter at his wedding in 1989 said about bond "He was married once, but it was long ago", traces back to 1969 bond's marriage from OHMSS
(Note: I assumed Felix Leiter has lost his leg in the future)
19th. goldeneye (1995) --past-connection>> FYEO, sometime (1986) between AVTAK & TLDL, LTK and the rest a:Bill Tanner from FYEO talks to bond about the new M as "the evil queen of numbers" while not knowing this M is just right behind him listening b:(assumed first) Q said to bond "Need I remind you, 007, that you have a licence to kill, not to break the traffic laws", reminds him of his past when his licence revoked by (assumed second) M from LTK c:In the prologue 9 years ago (1995 - 9 = 1986), bond was in Russia mission w/ another 00 agent (006 / Trevelyan), each wore the black jacket (seems mi6 suit for 00 agents for such type of missions), same style of his suit during his mission w/ other 00 agents (002 & 004) in the prologue of TLDL (1987) d:Trevelyan said to bond "We're both orphans, James. But while your parents had the luxury of dying in a climbing accident, mine survived the British betrayal and Stalin's execution squads" (where Stalin's execution squads a.k.a The Great Purge only refer to the 1930s time in Russia, when bond was still a child)
(Note: I assumed no female M since the very 1st bond movie until in Goldeneye; and the 1964 aston martin of licence plate BMT214A right after the Goldeneye opening song is just another car, not the 1964 aston martin of licence plate BMT216A from Goldfinger)
20th. tomorrow never dies (1997) --past-connection>> GF & GE a:the modified aston martin from GF b:Jack Wade & (lady) M from GE
21st. the world is not enough (1999) --past-connection>> GE, TND and the rest before OP a:shows the picture of Miles Messervy on the wall, was (assumed first) M of mi6, signifies 1st M of mi6 and whom bond worked with since 1962, replaced by Hargreaves since OP in 1983, and Hargreaves replaced by a lady since GE b:Charles Robinson from TND c:(assumed first) Q from TND retires and replaced d:Valentin Dmitrovich Zukovsky from GE
22nd. die another day (2002) --past-connection>> TB, TWINE and the rest a:bond's breathing device provided by (assumed first) Q from TB used again b:the new (assumed second) Q from TWINE c:bond said to the new Q "So, this is where they keep the old relics, then, eh"
23rd. skyfall (2012) --past-connection>> GF, GE, Die Another Day and the rest a:the modified aston martin from GF destroyed b:after explosion in mi6 hq AND SO...hired a new (assumed third) Q who said to bond "Were you expecting an exploding pen?" referring to the pen made by the (assumed first) Q for bond from GE c:(lady) M from Die Another Day dies - the M who disliked bond and described him as "...sexist, misogynist dinosaur, a relic of the Cold War" in 1995 d:the style of bond's family mansion is 1930s or less, as looked tarnished like for 8 decades or more, and the Catholic chapel which inside has had the elements of an old Catholic church w/ an underground path described as "...priest hole from reformation times", are the only standing structures left seen from afar e:Raoul Silva said to bond "Is There Nothing Of The Old 007 Left?"
(Note: Where's mi6's 2nd Q and pre-existed Moneypenny if Skyfall belongs to the original timeline? Since I assumed there are absolutely neither re-interpretations nor reboots except for 2 films, and every film, except for 2 films, in the 50-year timeline 'cannot' refer elsewhere in random but only in the past, and every film 'cannot' bring back anything to life in the next film that's gone in the previous film, I assumed they're gone then promoted new ones as replacements in Skyfall. I assumed the entire timeline is strictly unidirectional, which makes Skyfall isn't a JB story of its own that establishes its own timeline and doesn't follow 2006/2008 reboot, so if bond24 returns Felix Leiter extending the timeline places after Skyfall, he appears as a caucasian, at least having lost 1 leg and doesn't conform to 2006/2008 reboot's Felix Leiter. Based on bond beside his 1964 Aston Martin in Skyfall where portraits time spans between bond and his car, I assumed Skyfall is part of the original timeline that truly follows Die Another Day; assumed Gareth Mallory is the 3rd male M; assumed the modified 1964 aston martin logically cannot be considered as element of re-interpretation of bond's universe but only belongs to the original timeline, which means, it's brand new when Q branch modified it for bond's use and Miles Messervy was M when bond first used it; assumed the modified 1964 aston martin came from with already Moneypenny in the mi6, and so Eve, like the Q as MI6's "new quartermaster", a newly hired M's secretary a.k.a Moneypenny, where Eve is a predecessor of the original Moneypenny known to have had lieutenant r.n. ranking and existed in the entire bond's life in mi6; and assumed Moneypenny is not a surname of Eve that didn't revealed her surname yet to bond when said "Eve, Eve Moneypenny" but which stands for she 'resurrected' Moneypenny, in other words, she has been promoted as new so-called Moneypenny after being a field agent. And, can a q branch car destroyed in previous film return in next film as a re-interpretation? I assumed q branch lotus esprit was specifically designed for searching Karl Stromberg's complex under the sea, so ONCE destroyed cannot return in next film, same goes with all others, especially aston martin)
Conclusion: There has been 1 completely consistent unidirectional timeline where gone cannot return, 1 Q branch 1964 aston martin db5 (BMT216A) gone, 1 Q branch 1976 lotus esprit (PPW306R) gone, 1 Q branch 1999 bmw z8 (V354FMP) gone, 4 Ms, 3 Qs, 2 MPs and 1 JB himself of course.
All this is just an opinion
...
However, 1 exception regardless of any claims whatsoever -
THE HARD FACT you all should be aware of:
The 1964 Aston Martin won by bond in 2006 Casino Royale... (even assuming it'll turn into bond's personal car, pointlessly to change its original Bahamian licence plate into a fake one, unnecessarily to change its drive into right-hand, and/or to have modifications with all the gadgets by Q branch in following time) ...isn't the one in 2012 Skyfall.
Anti 62-12 timeline: No way
Pro 62-12 timeline: Yes way
Even if somehow you manage to get an acceptable chronology just for Bond's character, you still run into ridiculous inconsistencies with Judi Dench's M, both Qs, Moneypenny, the DB5, and of course, the actual historical chronology of events. For instance, a post-9/11 CR obviously cannot take place before a film set in the Cold War.
It's best to think of Bond as a character always up for re-interpretation. Like Batman, Jack Ryan, or Doctor Who. Each new actor initiates a re-boot (including Lazenby's one film), regardless of throwbacks and references elsewhere in the series. Those are simply there to remind you we're watching the same classic character.
His backstory is also the same across all timelines, though we visit these moments in his past at different contemporaneous junctures in time, depending on which iteration we are in. Kind of like how Batman's parents are always dead across the Animated, Burton, Schumacher, and Nolan universes, but the details and interpretations vary depending on the aesthetic and narrative approach.
In every timeline, Bond's parents died in a climbing accident, he owned a DB5 at one point, Vesper died after betraying him, and Tracy was murdered (except perhaps in Craig's world). But that is not to say that these things happen explicitly in each timeline, they just happened at some point in his past, or future, and are occasionally referred to, like in FYEO. Each new actor is a re-telling of the character, and even within these re-tellings, there is often very little continuity to previous film(s) unless clearly stated, as with QOS or FRWL.
Each new film also tends to stand alone as a singular work, even if it belongs within a certain actor's iteration. For example, Skyfall is so different in style and narrative approach from QOS that it may as well be another reboot, using the same cast. Like TSWLM after TMWTGG or FYEO after MR, we may keep the actor, but change the characters in crucial ways, depending on the script and the director. Each film is its own entity.
In that regard, although Skyfall most likely happens in Bond's life-timeline after the Connery era but before Tracy, it is not at all connected to those versions of the character, and is even loosely connected to CR/QOS. It is a new James Bond film that tells us new things about his character in a new and contemporary style. The next film will probably take place after Skyfall, but won't be much related to it at all, apart from some returning supporting characters.
You are both absolutely spot on IMO. Well said!! {[]
where was it implied that Bond's family own half of scotland?
correction, CR and QoS are in the same timeline, SF is implied to be years after those films. SF's Bond represents a more seasoned 00 agent compared to the ruff'n'gruff blunt instrument that he was in the first two films.
ruff'n'gruff???
also, no one at the theater cheered and clapped when Dimitri's Aston Martin pulls up to the hotel, yet Skyfall's garaged Aston Martin is met with resounding applause, whistles and loud (and obnoxious) "YEEEAAHHHRRRGG!!!"s.
how does THAT fit into the formula??
Not to be an ass, but which of the 3,400 theaters that showed Casino Royale are you referring to?
As far as I can recall, Dimitrios' car's first entrance was merely a playback on a CCTV recording. Not exactly a cinematic moment begging for attention, and not nearly as obvious of a 'Bond moment' as the one in Skyfall with the theme song. But when Bond wins the car and the valet pulls it up, I do distinctly remember some excited whispers amongst moviegoers, if not claps or cheers.
Wait a minute, what does this have to do with anything?