My problems and thoughts on Skyall (Spoilers)
perdogg
Posts: 432MI6 Agent
1. Pretitle sequence is a mess. We had Bond arriving at a hotel room in Istanbul, with a dying 00 agent slumped in the chair, Bond arrives at the scene and calls home to receive instructions. He then gets in a Landrover driven by someone else, a field agent. Then he is reportedly killed by the same dithering field agent who had to receive instructions from a command center to fire a weapon. Did anyone bother to search for his body? How long did they wait before they sold his possessions, a week? We are then told by M in a parliamentary committee that the purpose of the 00 section was to “fight the wars in the shadow”. If two 00 agents and a field op could not recovery a simple hard drive in a hotel room, how are they going to fight SPECTRE?
Contrast this with Dalton-Bond 25 years ago in The Living Daylights where Bond is relatively alone, no earpiece, using the skill and knowledge entrusted to him as a 00 agent in Bratislava, arriving on the scene and taking control of his situation, making split seconds decisions on matters of life and death, right or wrong and without regret.
2. Bond and Sévérine. No chemistry. Was she just the ferryman who was supposed to take Bond across the river Styx? They had more energy and interest in the 3 seconds they appeared together in the Heineken ad. Bond appeared to be tired and sexless. Sévérine seems to be bored and boring. I could barely understand the exchange between them. As a man I would definitely have sex with her, or with Eve, but the sex scene in the shower was passionless and without any context. I am a man but still a romantic. Was she having sex with Bond because she thought Bond was going to ‘save her’ or was she just attracted to him? I thought this scene was thrown in for the Fifty Shades crowd who stumble in with their mates.
3. The Villain. I had no trouble as some with his supposed homosexuality; it’s in some of the Fleming novels. Was it part of his mania, trying to unnerve Bond? The problem with the villain he was more of a comic book or graphic novel character. One minute he is the Joker, the next he was Hannibal Lector. There really is no development in his character. The usual Villain-Bond talk lacked philosophy or wit we read in Dr. No, or even saw in The Man with the Golden Gun. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Raul, or hate him even more? Should M think on her sins?
4. Bond as a Man. I to this day do not believe Bond could work for MI6, but that is for another day and another argument. I do not understand, other for political correctness, Bond is stripped of his manhood in this movie. He is supposed to an operative or an agent for MI6 yet it seems M has his stuff on a string. He does not even seem to enjoy women. He appears more interested in Wolf Blitzer. Yes, we see him having sex in the beginning, but it lacks interest, passion, or context. He does not seem to want to injection himself into things like the Bond of yore. He then draws the line with Eve, maybe because of the mandatory sexual harassment training.
5. Skyfall and Boyhood. Why is Bond reacting strongly when the M.O. utters ‘skyfall’? Did the M.O. not utter it during his initial screening? What was in his boyhood life that is supposed to have relevance to the title and theme song? Was he abused?
6. Final battle. Where was the MI6 at the end during the final battle? How was Raul able to get a chopper and go after the head of the 00 section and her prize agent?
7. No Fleming. We were told Mendes read Fleming to prepare this movie. I saw no evidence of this in the movie. Yes, there are minor elements, but I could never call this "Flemingesque". Did he really read the books?
8. Theatre experince a must with this movie. Sets are beautiful, costumes and fashions are great, music is great - too bad Mendes was not making Barry Lyndon. I actually liked the Title sequence. I thought Sévérine's make up was too heavy. I am still trying figure out the type of weapon Patrice was using in Shanghai, looked like a caseless type weapon.
Contrast this with Dalton-Bond 25 years ago in The Living Daylights where Bond is relatively alone, no earpiece, using the skill and knowledge entrusted to him as a 00 agent in Bratislava, arriving on the scene and taking control of his situation, making split seconds decisions on matters of life and death, right or wrong and without regret.
2. Bond and Sévérine. No chemistry. Was she just the ferryman who was supposed to take Bond across the river Styx? They had more energy and interest in the 3 seconds they appeared together in the Heineken ad. Bond appeared to be tired and sexless. Sévérine seems to be bored and boring. I could barely understand the exchange between them. As a man I would definitely have sex with her, or with Eve, but the sex scene in the shower was passionless and without any context. I am a man but still a romantic. Was she having sex with Bond because she thought Bond was going to ‘save her’ or was she just attracted to him? I thought this scene was thrown in for the Fifty Shades crowd who stumble in with their mates.
3. The Villain. I had no trouble as some with his supposed homosexuality; it’s in some of the Fleming novels. Was it part of his mania, trying to unnerve Bond? The problem with the villain he was more of a comic book or graphic novel character. One minute he is the Joker, the next he was Hannibal Lector. There really is no development in his character. The usual Villain-Bond talk lacked philosophy or wit we read in Dr. No, or even saw in The Man with the Golden Gun. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Raul, or hate him even more? Should M think on her sins?
4. Bond as a Man. I to this day do not believe Bond could work for MI6, but that is for another day and another argument. I do not understand, other for political correctness, Bond is stripped of his manhood in this movie. He is supposed to an operative or an agent for MI6 yet it seems M has his stuff on a string. He does not even seem to enjoy women. He appears more interested in Wolf Blitzer. Yes, we see him having sex in the beginning, but it lacks interest, passion, or context. He does not seem to want to injection himself into things like the Bond of yore. He then draws the line with Eve, maybe because of the mandatory sexual harassment training.
5. Skyfall and Boyhood. Why is Bond reacting strongly when the M.O. utters ‘skyfall’? Did the M.O. not utter it during his initial screening? What was in his boyhood life that is supposed to have relevance to the title and theme song? Was he abused?
6. Final battle. Where was the MI6 at the end during the final battle? How was Raul able to get a chopper and go after the head of the 00 section and her prize agent?
7. No Fleming. We were told Mendes read Fleming to prepare this movie. I saw no evidence of this in the movie. Yes, there are minor elements, but I could never call this "Flemingesque". Did he really read the books?
8. Theatre experince a must with this movie. Sets are beautiful, costumes and fashions are great, music is great - too bad Mendes was not making Barry Lyndon. I actually liked the Title sequence. I thought Sévérine's make up was too heavy. I am still trying figure out the type of weapon Patrice was using in Shanghai, looked like a caseless type weapon.
"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
Comments
Kincaid is a fun character, but I think one of the most bizarre inclusions in the movie the more I think about it; he just kind of shows up and rolls with these preposterous circumstances going on around him. Had it been Tanner or Mallory, I think this would have made more sense, but it's strange how Kincaid practically appears out of thin air, provides a bit of exposition, blows a few baddies away (saddled with the worst line in the movie IMO: "Welcome to Scotland!") and then vanishes by the end of it all. Not surprisingly, this sequence is where I feel the movie begins to have something of an identity crisis; trying to balance pulpier thrills (DB5 with machine guns, Silva's ostentatious chopper) with tonal seriousness. I guess it's a nice touch that this all takes place at the grave-site of Andrew and Monique Delacroix Bond , but I still don't think the film is quite as deep as it wants us to believe...
Which brings me to some of the thematic issues I had. Throughout the movie, there was this recurring theme of Bond as "old-fashioned"; I have no problem with this kind of thing being explored every so often, but it occurred to me that the script was making this painfully obvious, as though the writers had little faith that the audience would put two-and-two together. Frankly, it became a bit obnoxious, from Turner's painting of the old ship to even 007's "old fashioned" shaving method to Silva's remarks about the "old fashioned" allegiance to Queen and Country to the
This may sound disparaging and all, but I really did like Skyfall. It got away with a lot of stuff that Quantum of Solace tried -- and failed -- to because it had a lot of the right ingredients to begin with. This is hardly even a final verdict, as the film is still in the early stages of release, but just a few observations/minor quibbles of mine that I hope will encourage some discussion (and hopefully touch upon one or two of the issues raised above).
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I strongly disagree with your opinion about the opening sequence. I realise that it is not a documentary about how MI6 works, but the whole sequence seems realistic and logical. Surely, field agents are not left to fend for themselves, with no back-up whatsoever, no contact with the HQ in London and no 'safety net' in case something goes wrong (as apparently it did in Turkey). James Bond created by Fleming was not an omnipotent and all-knowing God, that most films portray him as; there were numerous situations when he didn't know what to do and was scared - as a normal human being. Had I wanted to watch a film about a lone superhero, I would have gone for Marvel, not Bond. You also mention the earpiece, as something which should not be there, but Dalton's Bond lived 25 years ago, as you say. Even though sticking to tradition is essential to keeping the series alive, unless the character keeps up with the times in certain aspects, he will be out of touch with the audience and seem outdated!
I agree that the theme of Severine was not developed properly and seemed to be a random one-off in the shower. I assume she was supposed to be Skyfall's Bond girl, but they clearly didn't take the idea far enough. How much screen time did she have? Twenty minutes? It was a shame, but it definitely didn't spoil the film for me nevertheless. Really? Try comparing Silva with someone like Le Chiffre from Casino Royale: a guy needing money fast in order to save himself, how very touching! Not. At least not for me. When you watch Silva's conversation with M, you cringe in your seat. His very motive develops his character and background. Mendes himself admitted that he was inspired by Nolan, but I think he managed to create a fabulou villan: people often say that if you are bad and intelligent at the same time, you are a real danger - and that's what Silva was for me. I kept wondering what he'd come up with next. And what he did reflects well the actual threats for national security today:mental geeks with their laptops (in their pyjamas :P).
The whole theme of Bond's childhood also puzzles me: in the books it was shown as happy and carefree, not mentioning how rich they had to be seeing the schools he went to (miss Edinburgh
You are right, there were some minor slip ups and things which could have been done differently, but none of them spoliled it for me. Skyfall was fabulous and I'm impatiently waiting for the DVD to come out
The worst thing with Mendes and the writing here is a lot of it seems to be subtext over straight narrative. So having Bond getting instructions directly from M over the earpiece, just might be to represent the way a kid is told what to do by 'Mummy' and later when she dies it allows him to grieve as if for his mum, as he never did before, and the destruction of Skyfall allows him to lay his demons to rest finally.
Which, in a way, is brilliant. It just doesn't work as a narrative on the face of it, it's ludicrous.
As for Severine, well, it's like everyone has bought into the idea that Craig is a babe magnet; if women say it there's no argument. So he can just walk into a shower... why he would actually want to, with a woman in the sex trade who has been abused... I mean, not picky is he? Does he wear water resistant condoms with that?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Severine sees Bond as someone who Might be able to Kill
Silva. So would use her Body to keep him sweet.
Although after a first viewing you do see many Problems with the
story.
I have female friend who is a writer who told me that she thought Craig and Severine appeared to be sexually neutered in the film. She thinks that Craig is good looking. The ironic thing, I found Craig and Severine to be enjoying the Heineken commerical more than Skyfall, both of them appear to seem warm and engaging. Berenice in the commerical actually appears to be much better looking, with the exception of the shower scene - nothing beats a naked wet woman.
How about with Tonia while enjoying death? They look more like they've been fighting - he looks offended (what else is new) and she looks upset and worried... Can they ever show DC actually ENJOYING something?
Well he was enjoying himself a lot in CR, when he was on the beach... confessing his undying love for Vepser... and offering to quit his job...
She then turns out to be a woman who betrays him and commits suicide in front of him.... it's no wonder he's a bit f*cked up.
He now sees woman as 'disposable pleasures' and something not to get too attached too... which he does so perfectly in 'enjoying death'
Let's not forget that in his eyes, even M has betrayed him by telling Eve to 'take the shot'.....
Ok, yes that makes sense.
It's just that I thought we were done with that stuff in QoS. I am amongst the minority that actually likes QoS, and the main reason I do is the above backdrop - I felt DC played the part of betrayed, brooding, half-thug half-hitman perfectly in the sequel. Didn't want any of that here though...
DC did not have a problem with going to bed with agent Fields, although again not really in the traditional sense. It appeared he took her from behind which some would suggest is not really making love, just having sex in an agressive manner.
This whole psycobabble is going to kill the series faster than Mike and Babs have anticipated. We have had three DC bond movies and we now have Bond with an array of psycological issues with the loss of a woman and now his home life that has not really been explained or made relevant. These issues with Skyfall were present before Istanbul, why after Istanbul? Was it betrayal? An agent, in any context would realise that the misson would come first, if not why am I watching a Bond film in the first place?
Really?
Fields was sitting up in bed, talking to Bond...he was kissing her back, in which he then pulled her back down onto the bed for a second round...I have NO idea where you thought he was sha**ing her from behind....?
And I'm not sure what point you're trying to make...we had to have his issues with his childhood re-surface as Silva would then not think it was a set up, to lead him to Scotland...so we had to have a reason to go there, and a place for base...Skyfall fitted both.
Perhaps my recollection on QoS is faulty. I will take your word for it.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
As I recalled, she was on her stomach and he was kissing her back after the fact.
You mean this....
Not so much on her front, as sitting up, chastising herself for falling for Bond's charms....
Ere Lexi, thought you woz a posh bird! Still I think he took oiling up Ms Strawberry to the extreme though
As M's overpriced on the secondary market Royal Doulton dog would say.....OHHHH YESSSS!
Here is the sequence
http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/index_11.htm#1171
Indeed.... and her elbows are resting on her knees, he's just kissing her back...... she is not lying on her front, otherwise Bond would have had to fold her in half, when he pulled her back onto the bed....
Trust me, I've prob watched this movie 20+ times... and this scene get's my full attention!