So, who's responsible...?

Lexi

Not sure how many overseas member's have heard about this, but a nurse who was on the switchboard of the King Edwards VII hospital was found dead... after apparently committing suicide after a prank call was made whilst the Duchess of Cambridge was admitted for her morning sickness.

This nurse was responsible for putting through a 'prank' call from a couple of Australian DJ's - posing as The Queen... the call was put through, and apparent intimate details were then divulged to the DJ's.

The DJ's then posted and advertised the 'victory' even though their accents were terrible, and were quite surprised that this prank was taken seriously....(I think they thought they would be called out, right from the get go)

However, now this joke has taken a very serious turn for the worse... as someone has taken their life over it, and strong feelings are running rife over most social network sites... calling for dismissal of these 2 DJ's.

I'm in two minds about this. Yes, the joke was in bad taste... BUT whenever I've tried getting through to hospital reception to find out about family members... it's never worked. In fact, I've found it nigh on impossible... so how these 2 self confessed 'awful' accented Australian DJ's managed to convince someone that they are The Queen seems most bazaar.

Anyone else have thoughts on this...?


For thos who haven't seen the press on this, a couple of different articles...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244999/Tributes-nurse-Jacintha-Saldanha-committed-suicide-transferring-prank-Australian-DJs.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/08/hospital-royal-prank-radio-nurse

Barbel

It may be that the nurse, being from an Indian background, might not have realised the accent was wrong. (I'm a Scot who spends a lot of time in Germany, and can't tell an Austrian accent from a Berlin one for example)

Mr Beech

If these DJs are responsible, then no pranks can ever be done for fear of anyone getting embarassed and committing suicide. Did anyone seriously think a prank like this would lead to a suicide in the days after? Were those DJs thinking about how they could shame someone and hurt their lives? I doubt it. It wasn't even the nurse who divulged the information, but rather the one who mistakingly made the transfer. The hospital didn't even punish those two nurses because this was such a harmless prank in the big picture.

I think this was an unpredictable tragedy and it is absolutely not the DJs' responsibility. If someone commits suicide, they already likely have some sort of personal struggle. With how silly and even endearing people thought the mistake was, and that it went unpunished, the DJs should not be held responsible for how the nurse responded to the fame of the harmless prank. Apologies if I have any misconceptions about the story.

Sad that she had a family, as well.

Lexi

Mr Beech wrote:

If these DJs are responsible, then no pranks can ever be done for fear of anyone getting embarassed and committing suicide. Did anyone seriously think a prank like this would lead to a suicide in the days after? Were those DJs thinking about how they could shame someone and hurt their lives? I doubt it. It wasn't even the nurse who divulged the information, but rather the one who mistakingly made the transfer. The hospital didn't even punish those two nurses because this was such a harmless prank in the big picture.

I think this was an unpredictable tragedy and it is absolutely not the DJs' responsibility. If someone commits suicide, they already likely have some sort of personal struggle. With how silly and even endearing people thought the mistake was, and that it went unpunished, the DJs should not be held responsible for how the nurse responded to the fame of the harmless prank. Apologies if I have any misconceptions about the story.

Sad that she had a family, as well.

I kinda agree...a rather tasteless prank (we all know the hounding of Princess Di and the consequences that resulted) but I truly believe that the DJ's had NO idea how far this prank would go....and now they have public outcry demanding legal action as well as apparent responsibly of someone taking their life.

Tragic indeed, and very sad.

minigeff

It's basically a prank gone tragically wrong.

The DJ's didn't know it was gonna turn out like this, and who knows, maybe the nurse had some long term underlying mental health issues and this prank tipped the scales.

Should the DJ's be held responsible? No. Should pranks be banned? No.

We could take the stance that if there's ANY risk we simply don't do it. In which case, don't do anything, ever, at all.

My most sincere condolences to Jasinctha's family and the DJs who must be equally devastated.

Thunderbird 2

minigeff wrote:

It's basically a prank gone tragically wrong.

The DJ's didn't know it was gonna turn out like this, and who knows, maybe the nurse had some long term underlying mental health issues and this prank tipped the scales.

Should the DJ's be held responsible? No. Should pranks be banned? No.

We could take the stance that if there's ANY risk we simply don't do it. In which case, don't do anything, ever, at all.

My most sincere condolences to Jasinctha's family and the DJs who must be equally devastated.

I completely agree except for one thing. - I feel a little disappointed that it appears the radio station has "gagged" the two broadcasters 's so there has been no official message of sympathy and regret from them. - (To the best of my knowledge I hasten to add.) Although reports online suggest they are in shock, which would be understandable to say the least.

Unfortunately, the hospital chairman has seemingly pointed the finger directly at the management of the radio station for allowing the stunt to be broadcast. So its clear he thinks someone is responsible. From the timing of this tragedy, especially with Lord Levinson's report published only last week, I think the possibility of some sort of legislation on stunts like this (in all forms of the media) is now unavoidable. Even though it IS a tragedy that no one could have expected.


I too offer my condolences to Nurse Saldanha relatives and friends, and the two broadcasters who must be horrified where events have led.

LastRatStanding

I highly doubt she committed suicide solely over the prank, but perhaps it pushed her over the edge. The DJ's obviously didn't know how far the prank was going to go. I used to listen to 'the real radio wind up' on the way to school and loved it. It was an entire part of the show based on pranking people. Singling out these 2 DJ's over a prank and pressing charges against them would be absurd. However I can understand that they have lost their jobs from the point of view of the radio station, to NOT fire them would also be absurd - but that's just because of how the situation has escalated that this is the case. The radio station will fire them because 'it's the right thing to do' in the situation. To fire all radio DJ's who have prank called is unimaginable. I'm sure however that harassing people in such a way in general can be seen as a crime and at most the DJ's could be charged for communications harassment but not for anything to do with the nurses death.

The Domino Effect

I don't think anyone out there would ever condone any journalist attempting to obtain the medical records of a celebrity by pretending to be a doctor, nurse or relative, and yet that's basically what they attempted to do here. If this had been a tabloid newspaper, everyone would rightly be up in arms and demanding the sacking and prosecution of the journalist/editor concerned and rightly so. The only difference here is that it was done as an outrageously ridiculous joke, but even before the terrible turn of events, it was in dubious taste.

I love pranks - I loved the supposed Canadian motorcade with Osama in it that managed to breach the security cordons in Sydney some years ago, for example - but there's a point at which a prank becomes irresponsible, and in my opinion posing as someone else to speak to a medical professional at a hospital treating a celebrity is always going to exhibit poor judgement whether it's Kate, the Pope or Justin Bieber.

No, no one could have imagined that someone would take their own life this time, but there is a very real chance every time that someone could lose their job. Many companies and institutions would have little sympathy for an employee who was duped by journalists into providing access or information to a celebrity. For that reason alone I would not have authorised this particular stunt. Although the nurse doesn't seem to have been punished at all and in fact seems to have received nothing but tremendous support from her co-workers and employers afterwards, in another situation someone could easily be sacked all for the sake of a joke. Is it worth a laugh for that?

These two DJs shouldn't be hung from a tree for what they did because they are just the latest in a very, very long-line of TV and radio personalities who've done this sort of thing and who we've all had a kick out of. To punish them and only them would be hypocritical when just a few days ago the radio station thought that what they did was so good and funny that they were constantly advertising it. However, what this tragic situation will hopefully do is cause the people who think up these jokes to take a little more time to think them through fully.

By no means should it stop, but there should be a bit more responsibility and a little less recklessness when these pranks are planned.

Mr Beech

I think it was obvious that they weren't attempting to steal medical records. They were clearly surprised when their horrendous and stereotypical impersonations got them anywhere at all. A tabloid trying to get that information and use it for magazine sales is different. The draw of the prank had nothing to do with any of the specific medical information and didn't depend on them actually getting through with the call at all.

I really think the fact that no one at the hospital was punished (they probably could use a training session to avoid that next time, though) speaks to how unpredictable the prank's effect was and how rare.

If anything, they probably should have hung up when they realized they were actually getting information. Prank calls in general are still fine when they aren't intended to harm, and this one wasn't and didn't directly.

minigeff

Surprised that no one has thought of the 'reality check' angle yet.

Think about it, you're a nurse working on reception, the phone goes at its the queen.

Hold on.... The Queen?! Just stop for a second and ask yourself, if the queen wishes to know something, do you think she'd get the blower out?

When dealing with royalty there are protocols involved. The way you talk, act and interact with royalty is quite strict and regulated. For instance, you NEVER touch the queen.

Now in a hospital where the Duchess of Cambridge is being treated, don't you think for one minute that there's some procedure in place for passing information to the royal family. I would expect that if the queen wanted to know anything, she would have an aide who would contact the hospital, possibly a member of senior management who would then enquire and relay the information back to the palace aide.

The Queen does not reach for the blower and dial a receptionist.

It's my belief that this poor nurse was probably already on the edge, nursing is extremely stressful and tiring work. Not wanting to f*ck up and risk insulting her monarch, she put the call through. Chaos ensued.

I think the presenters aren't totally in the clear, but I also think its the responsibility of the hospital management to ensure their staff are briefed on what to do should any enquiries come through.

As always, the shop floor worker gets turned over while the incompetent management of both hospital and radio station get to point fingers at each other.

The Domino Effect

minigeff wrote:

When dealing with royalty there are protocols involved. The way you talk, act and interact with royalty is quite strict and regulated. For instance, you NEVER touch the queen.

So could that little pat on the bum be the reason I still haven't appeared on the New Year's Honours List?

minigeff

The Domino Effect wrote:

minigeff wrote:

When dealing with royalty there are protocols involved. The way you talk, act and interact with royalty is quite strict and regulated. For instance, you NEVER touch the queen.

So could that little pat on the bum be the reason I still haven't appeared on the New Year's Honours List?

Depends, did you squeeze too?

Mr Beech

I believe one person I've listened to discuss this on TV mentioned that it would be incredibly odd to believe that the Queen would ask for her "granddaughter Kate" and her condition with Charles fumbling around in the background. All that mess without having any of her staff, who would obviously have already been asked to be up to date with information on her family, tell her instead of the Queen herself calling.

I'd certainly bet that when she does call for information, its from the person who has the information. I doubt she ever deals with phone transfers because the staff dials first and makes sure when she gets on the phone it is already with the right person.

Yeah, the Queen don't phone in.

Napoleon Plural

It's about social status.

Had it been some posh consultant who'd made the mistake, no way would he have killed himself. If you're a nurse, you're at the lower end of the scale and may feel put upon, especially if you're first generation immigrant. That's the structure of hospitals these days, though you'd imagine if it's private health, it might be a bit different.

The Domino Effect

minigeff wrote:

Depends, did you squeeze too?

Maybe just a little bit?

minigeff

The Domino Effect wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Depends, did you squeeze too?

Maybe just a little bit?

I think she'd like that.

As long as you didn't sneek a finger between the cheeks.

Thunderbird 2

minigeff wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

minigeff wrote:

Depends, did you squeeze too?

Maybe just a little bit?

I think she'd like that.

As long as you didn't sneek a finger between the cheeks.

Mini G!! That is no way to talk about a venerable if slightly eccentric duffer who gains a lot of attention and overblown pomp and ceremony.

For that matter its bloody cheeky toward Her Majesty The Queen too!

FelixLeiter ♀

I think the DJs have to face up to the fact that even if they didn't think they were setting out to attempt to illegally obtain medical records, they still went ahead with it when they weren't immediately outed. There is certainly a crime there. Prank calls are prank calls, but what they did was illegal and immoral.

However, there is no way anyone could have foreseen such terrible consequences. They did not kill that woman. It is never one thing which causes someone to commit suicide; it is a build up of many things over a considerable period of time and this one thing happened to be the last thing.

It was right that they were taken off the air, but they were not responsible for that woman's death.

minigeff

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

minigeff wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

Maybe just a little bit?

I think she'd like that.

As long as you didn't sneek a finger between the cheeks.

Mini G!! That is no way to talk about a venerable if slightly eccentric duffer who gains a lot of attention and overblown pomp and ceremony.

For that matter its bloody cheeky toward Her Majesty The Queen too!

Bet Philip gets away with it.


Phillip; "urgh, darling would you like to help me 'find the stationary'?"

Queen; "yus, I'll call the butler"

P; "no, I mean would you like to help me find the stationary?"

Q; "yes dear, I'll call the butler"

P; "Nooo, would you like to help ME find the stationary?!"

Q; "YES I'LL CALL THE BUTLER"

P; "oh forget it woman."

As Phillip rolled over, another advance declined, he frustratingly wondered what he was doing wrong. Behind him, the queen rolled over and sighed. Her dreams of that threesome with Trevor the butler would never be realised.

MANDY1

Sad news spread to Scandinavia immediately regarding this prank. Admittedly this was very bad joke and had terrible consequences BUT like stated before Do you really think that Queen would dial herself and ask about Kate's condition?
Even though i'm a bloody foreigner I do know something about Royal family and how their procedures work etc.

minigeff

Teppo wrote:

Even though i'm a bloody foreigner I do know something about Royal family and how their procedures work etc.

Only cos you scaled the gates at Buckingham Palace in a batman outfit. :v

I think the ozzy authorities should take North Korea's great example, and tie the presenters to a post and use them for mortar practice.

Silhouette Man

In legal terms, the nurse's suicide broke the chain of causation - she was Indian - had a code of honour - there may have been underlying mental health issues there already - she left 3 suicide notes criticising the hospital and the way it was run. It was a dirty trick on behalf of the Aussie arseholes who always like to mock Britain and its monarchy - although it went much further than they ever intended. Stilll, they have to live with this until they die - in a safe house by the looks of things! The Queen would of course not dial a number to speak to a nurse - that's what the underlings are for. Other than that, what the hell was a nurse doing on a hospital switchboard - she should have been out bleedin' nursing then the whole tragedy wouldn't have happened!

Silhouette Man

The poor nurse was buried today. May she be at rest now. A sad business for all concerned.