Eve's M4 Rifle

Gadget Meister

Hi guys, hope you all had a good Christmas. I'm looking to identify Eve's compact M4 rifle. The IMFDB has it as an Olympic Arms K23B, and although similar, I'm not at all convinced. The flash hider is different, the hand guard is different and finally the extendable stock is different. I don't see anything in their catalogue to show that it maybe a mix n match piece either. I've tried emailing the movie's Armourers but they don't appear to want to reply.

Any ideas?

minigeff

Definitely NOT trying to make a sick joke here, but have you looked at the bushmaster m4 or any of the spikes tactical gear?

roi007

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/39134/olympic-arms-k23b/

Look at my Thread

Gadget Meister

roi007

The hand guard is def different and NOT OA, nor is the stock as you identified. I seriously doubt that they would use an OA and then change out the stock, flash hider and hand guard. Good ID on the scope though. I had forgotten that that thread was there which is why I didn't continue it (that or too lazy to search for it)

Can't see anything in the Bushmaster Catalogue close either Jeff

PPK 7.65mm

Once Skyfall comes to DVD/Blu Ray we should be able to better identify the model of the rifle. By the way I think it is kind of funny how in the film Eve uses this rifle to make a shot that is impossible to make in reality, yet in the Skyfall section of the video game 007 Legends, she is shown using a sniper rifle which would be the more relistic chocie for the situation.

MFisher

check out page 203 of the Bond on Set book... there is a good photo of 1st unit publicist Heather Callow holding Eve's compact rifle which shows a decent view of the hand guard.. definitely different than what is pictured on the Olympic Arms site... I have looked at a few of the component makers sites (Magpull etc) and have yet to ID it...

MFisher

Closest thing I have found is a "float free handguard" on Brownell's by DPMS... has same tubular shape with elongated vents

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/forends-handguards/ar-15-vented-free-float-tube-prod5552.aspx

the one in the link is for a full size rifle.. look in the suggested links and there is a 7" version... getting close..

Mister Greene

Thought it was the "DPMS kitty kat" or that's what it was named a few years back. Side note not the greatest rifle to be taking that shot, no wonder she missed.

Gadget Meister

Yeah been down all of those routes, most have alternating groove and vent, some are recessed at both ends with the vent positioned centrally within the groove. Eve's has a longer groove with a smaller vent at the fore end. Can't find anything close, agree that the DPMS is getting there but no cigar still.

minigeff

Just spent ages and come up with sweet FA.

The curious thing here is the rifle, whatever it is, still had the A2 style foresight but no rearsight at all, which I just don't see the point of.

The Foregrip is also free floating, which is more common with precision rifles to aid accuracy, but what kind of accuracy are you gonna get with a 7" barrel?

The flash suppressor seems very generic so is hard to ID.

Technically speaking, this rifle makes no sense, with a mixed bag of all the wrong parts being put together to make something pretty weird.

Like someone previously said, there's no wonder she missed!

One thing that springs to mind is 'is the gun all one manufacturer?'. The reason I'm asking is that it appears not a great deal of thought has gone into this rifle's setup, so I imagine someone to just pic a load of crap from one catalogue (does it even work like that?).

Currently I can't find any manufacturer that has this layout with these parts straight off the shelf, so IDing the parts is pretty tricky.

MG

roi007

http://www.impactguns.com/dpms-kitty-kat-ar-15-7in-barrel-short-barrel-rifle-223-556-adjustable-stock-rfa2-kit-884451002260.aspx



The Flash hider bolted in the opposite direction )

minigeff

Stock doesn't look right, the hand guard slots aren't all the way through and the flash suppressor isn't quite spot on.



The stock looks like a magpul UBR to me.


Or maybe the Rock River Arms operator CAR Stock.

roi007

no the stock is:
"fab-defense" - 'GL-Shock' Buttstock
http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-buttstocks/id-208/m4-m16-shock-absorbing-buttstock.html

minigeff

You sure? The cheekpiece doesn't look like the sides are angled enough, plus the underside looks a bit out.

Gadget Meister

Yeah I'll go with the 'GL-Shock' stock, and that's a damn good ID {[]

The flash eliminator is a strange one, it's not uniform, so I would surmise it's actually a compensator also. For those who are unfamiliar with the concept Google Cutts Compensator. I am told a muzzle brake only has a slightly bigger aperture than the calbre at the business end and hiders/compensators are fully open. But even this is weird as I would expect the slots to be top and right to provide an opposite reaction to barrel lift and case ejection, this one is bottom right. Is that what you mean when you say it's mounted in the opposite direction? In any case it's not the DPMS Kitty Kat flash eliminator, there are differences. This is really close

http://sttgl.com/30060901/page%20graphics/inv/A2%20flash%20hider.jpg

But there are many more almost identical that would fit the bill.

Jeff is right about it being a free floating handguard. It does appear to be very illusive though.

minigeff

This is the nearest I can find for the hand guard, bloody airsoft crap though;

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=MICL-PAT-SC&search=searchItem&rs=patriot&catid=&cat=

minigeff

As for the flash suppressor/compensator, it looks like a big standard A2 pattern flash hider. Eve's is put on incorrectly, as the missing slots should be facing downwards, though not so that gases are vented up, but to reduce dust kicked up when firing prone. The muzzle seems a little too wide for it to be intended for use as a compensator.

Check this out, second option down;

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15-M16Parts/FlashHidersCompensators.asp

Dalkowski110

I can immediately tell you about the flash suppressor: it's not on straight! You can take the flash suppressor off any AR with a threaded barrel, so I'm wondering if they re-attached it almost but not quite upside down and didn't notice or just wanted it to look that way for whatever reason.

minigeff

Armourer's mistake perhaps?

Dalkowski110

minigeff wrote:

Armourer's mistake perhaps?

It happens. Believe me, when the first WASR-10 AK's were imported into the US, the muzzlebreaks (unscrewed and then tack-welded back on for legality) were often NOT on straight. The importer, Century Arms, usually got stuff right (their "FrankenFAL" rifles that were half-metric and half-inch...), so I was a bit surprised by that.

minigeff

Well guys I'm stumped by this.

I've had a look for some way to break this mystery, hoping that all the add ons came from the same manufacturer or source, and I've trawled the net for hours. The idea being that if one accessory could be identified, hopefully this would indicate the source of the other items.

I've found stuff that's close to some of the kit, but other parts seem to be unique.

My only guess now is that the harder to make items, such as the stock and sight appear to be identified as bought 'off the shelf' real products, and the easy stuff to produce, the rail, hand guard and flash suppressor, IMO could be specially made for the rifle.

The only thing that leads to a slight doubt on this theory is 'why not buy these items?' as there are literally hundreds, if not, thousands of places this kind of gear can be sourced.

There are several unanswered questions concerning this rifle. The setup, as I've previously said, appears to be a mixed bag of odd parts, and not much logic going on when the whole lot has been put together. For instance;

Why is an A2 standard foresight fitted, but no rearsight?

Why use a hugely elevated scope mount to get over that tall unneeded foresight?

Why if the rifle is short for close combat work isn't it fitted with a vertical foregrip?

Why is there a sling swivel on rifle with no sling? (Bit picky I know)

Why is the muzzle break not even put on correctly?

Am I being too anal here or are there other members who are thinking the same?

MG -{

Ps, wade in any time ya like donk!

Gadget Meister

You've been down the same tracks as me Jeff, personally I think it's just the handguard that eluding us, the rail appears to be standard picatinny, the Flash hider seems fairly standard (even if on wrong), it is poss the handguard was specially made but to that my only question is ... Why? I also want to know which manufacturers frame this was all built up on.

I'm going to wait until things get back to normal in Jan and give the armourers a call, the're only just down the road from me, so if they won't answer their contact form we'll see if the pick the phone up.

minigeff

Well all I can say is good luck with that rail.

Sure I agree the flash hider can be bought, but I've not found anything for the handguard or picatinny rail.

The actual action.... buggered if I know. DPMS, CMMG, Colt, Blackwater, Olympic Arms, Spikes Tactical.... the list goes on.

ke02eww

Thx for getting this (and roi's earlier thread ) going... I'm keen to get this right too, and reserched this weapon a bit earlier in the year when the first shots of eve came out.

I drew similar blanks ( makes me feel a lot better..) but cam to the conclusion that this weapon was jury-rigged just for Naomi... She says in an interview that she'd never used guns before and was a total novice... Even a pacifist.

I strongly suspect that joss et al put this togeher not so much as an optimal working weapon but as something that Naomi could easily work with and look convincing.

Hence the raised sight, which makes it look almost effortless as she takes aim ( a lower sight would be awkward if you've had little experience ) and of course the smooth, rounded guard, much less harsh on a ladies hands than the normal guards fitted on this gun.

I'm pretty convinced it's a Olympic arms, and I too Tgt it might be based upon the kitty Kay version.....

Finally I don't think you can fit a vertical fore grip with those rounded guards ( either of the versions seen here or on the k23p...)

Anyway, forgive my two peneth..

Cheers

minigeff

Interesting points KE02,

With ms Harris being a novice with guns, maybe she put the rifle together, hence all the errors? )

With regards the high scope mount, when you look at the film Naomi's chin is nearly on the cheekpiece of the stock which I couldn't ever feel 'natural'. For me, it makes it look as if the rifle is too big for her, which it really shouldn't be as the m4/ar15 action is really quite small and manageable.

As for the floating handguard, no it's not possible to fit it with a vertical grip, but what I was getting at was these types of CQB rifles usually have quad rails fitted out front instead of free floating guards. The extra picatinny rails allow you to attach all kinds of gadgets to the gun, including vertical grips.

Also, with a very short barrel, you'd imagine this to be perfect for indoor work such as room clearance, so why no torch?

Would love to hear from Mr Skottowe about the choice of toys for this rifle.

By the way, forgive my ignorance but is there much difference between the several makes of m4/ar15 style actions available?

Gadget Meister

Yeah sorry Jeff I was referring to the flat top Picatinny not the riser, as you say that is a very elusive one.

So what do we know:

Unknown M4/AR15 CQB SBR flat top frame & Barrel
Mako GL-Shock Recoil-Compensating Collapsible Stock - 100% confirmed on Mako's FB page
Unknown Free Floating Vented Aluminium Handguard - Poss custom but unlikely
Standard part bird cage Flash Hider - Incorrectly mounted
Unknown Picatinny scope rail riser
Poss Scope ID - Leatherwood ES1X30 - not convinced Elevation knob knurling too coarse

So after several of us have spent hours trawling, we're no further forward. I think roi007 deserves full credit for ID'ing the stock though, top marks {[]

draxhugo

Deleted

minigeff

So where's the handguard from?

Gadget Meister

Looked at that Handguard yesterday and on the manufacturers site, still no joy. Agree, it's prob a red dot, but not that one.

ppw3o6r

minigeff wrote:

Interesting points KE02,

With ms Harris being a novice with guns, maybe she put the rifle together, hence all the errors? )

With regards the high scope mount, when you look at the film Naomi's chin is nearly on the cheekpiece of the stock which I couldn't ever feel 'natural'. For me, it makes it look as if the rifle is too big for her, which it really shouldn't be as the m4/ar15 action is really quite small and manageable.

As for the floating handguard, no it's not possible to fit it with a vertical grip, but what I was getting at was these types of CQB rifles usually have quad rails fitted out front instead of free floating guards. The extra picatinny rails allow you to attach all kinds of gadgets to the gun, including vertical grips.

Also, with a very short barrel, you'd imagine this to be perfect for indoor work such as room clearance, so why no torch?

Would love to hear from Mr Skottowe about the choice of toys for this rifle.

By the way, forgive my ignorance but is there much difference between the several makes of m4/ar15 style actions available?

Dear Angry of Mayfair,

Most M4 variant carbines are interchangeable regardless of manufacture hence the current success of the H&K 416 in the field as an upgradable weapon meaning if your unit are AR15/M4 armed it is a p of p to upgrade to current Special Forces (who designed the thing) specifiation. It is likely that Moneypenny's M4 is a parts bin jobby however it's donor is more than likely 416 based? with H&K manufactured weapons being heavily favoured by The Armoury Department Ltd in Bond and other action productions. Incidently the M4 carbine on page 203 in Bond on set Filming Skyfall is a stunt as are the other two H&K weapons in the colour plate so allow for mould distortion & possible shrinkage when comparing to real weaponry. Finally the Armoury have a very talented fabricator & access to a very talented holster maker in a reply to an earlier weapon related accessory thread so you may not be looking at off the shelf on either subject and sorry can't even post initials of the talented individuals in question.
I doubt very much if JS or RH would comment on such matters? although there are others..lol

minigeff

Well at least me assumption of custom parts might hold some weight.

Sadly I don't have the coin to purchase a H&K 416s, so that's my dreams dashed.

Thanks for the input donk. -{