I'm new to this thread but have read each post since the beginning. Obviously we all share a passion for not just any Aston Martin but the DB5 Model. Owning one is simply out of the question for many, but perhaps a good replica with modern underpinnings may not be beyond us. Consider this, Triumph motorcycles sell thousands of new Bonneville models (made in Indonesia ironically) allowing owners all the pleasure of a classically styled machine without the headaches of owning the original models from the 50's, 60's and 70's. In the early 80's a company called "Triple C" built fiberglass bodied E-Type replica's with space frame chassis and modern (at that time) suspension. All the aesthetic pleasures of E-type ownership without the headaches.
Reading the threads its clear that Aston Martin take a far less relaxed approach to the construction of DB5 replicas, and rightly so. However, I think its clear that everyone who has posted here, is not interested in making any kind of profit, we simply enjoy the shape of a DB5 and would love to own a real one, or perhaps a very good facsimile for our own pleasure.
Somebody here said that making a mould would cost in the region of $7,000 US. why not form a consortium of folks, each willing to contribute an equal amount of money towards the construction of a super high quality and accurate mould of the DB5. With the mould made, members of the consortium (limited to say to 20 members) would have the right to additionally finance the construction of one shell, minus any interior or exterior trim or windows etc. Shipping would be an additional cost borne by each individual. With the completion of bodyshell No20, the moulds would be destroyed (under supervision, with an affidavit of destruction signed and witnessed).
A lottery would be set up to determine the order of recipients, each person would then in turn pay the full estimated cost of the body. The lead time could be used by each member to procure a suitable donor car and prepare it to accept the body. To speed up delivery, it may be worth considering making two or three moulds and each member contributes an equal sum towards the cost of making them all ( for example three moulds at $7k each, $7k x 3 = $21,000 divided by 20). Again, on completion of body No20, all moulds are destroyed, amounts settled and the consortium dissolves. This process could take a few years from start to finish but the end result may be worth the wait.
Just my thoughts here. Its a rough idea but I thought I would put it out there.
Ah another bonfire to piss on. )
Seriously though, going into a 'gentlemans agreement' etc and splitting the cost is a brilliant idea to keep the price down.
However, the big problem is the subject matter.
As you can imagine, Aston Martin are somewhat protective over the DB5 image, and get VERY annoyed when anyone even dreams of copying it. I think it's got something to do with some fictional spy being asscoiated with it, but I can't be sure. Anyway, as the entire progress made by AML since the mid sixties has a lot to do with the success of the DB5, you can quite understand why they get a little pissed when people talk of fibreglass copies etc.
Profit or no profit, copying the 5 would seriously rattle the sabre with AML. I dunno about you, but I couldn't even dream of going up against them in court, and I don't think uncle bez simply gives you a quiet word in your shell-like. A cease and decist letter from AML's lawyers would cause any joint project to fold instantly, leaving everyone out of pocket and quite possibly liable too. Is that a risk anyone could take?
See it's not about making money, signing agreements to limit production or saying you'll destroy the moulds afterwards. Regardless of all these conditions, you're still copying AML's design. The other thing is what happens when you die? Does the car you could never sell get destroyed as well, or does it finally get sold? In which case someone has made profit out of the project. It's all very sketchy ground.
Triumph can make retro bikes because they own the design. I dunno about triple C with the e-type, but there was that dutch company on top gear once with their retro design which 'loosely' followed the genuine 'e' design but technically speaking was quite a way off. It was not a direct copy either.
Which brings me on to the next point. If you copy the 5 design faithfully AML will come down on you like a ton of crap. If you change the design enough to call it something else you'll not have a 5, or many customers.
If the legal side of things didn't exist then I'd say go for it, all the best. But the world being what it is, and with the amount of lawyers around I really don't think the idea of making a limited run, a modified design, or in some cases even a one off will ever get further than the napkin you started sketching out on.
Sorry to be a downer on this, but I'm just pointing out what you seem to have over-looked.
If you do a private copy from your number #1 song for your car stereo, this would not violate copyright.
Now if 20 of your friends would put 0,50 together to buy the CD and each one receives a "private copy" that would a violation of copyright.
Transferring that to a DB5 replica: If yiou are doing one for yourseplf, AML MAY (and that's written in capital letters) approve.
If 20 people throw money together to make 20 replicas, there will be trouble....
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm new to this thread but have read each post since the beginning. Obviously we all share a passion for not just any Aston Martin but the DB5 Model. Owning one is simply out of the question for many, but perhaps a good replica with modern underpinnings may not be beyond us. Consider this, Triumph motorcycles sell thousands of new Bonneville models (made in Indonesia ironically) allowing owners all the pleasure of a classically styled machine without the headaches of owning the original models from the 50's, 60's and 70's. In the early 80's a company called "Triple C" built fiberglass bodied E-Type replica's with space frame chassis and modern (at that time) suspension. All the aesthetic pleasures of E-type ownership without the headaches.
Reading the threads its clear that Aston Martin take a far less relaxed approach to the construction of DB5 replicas, and rightly so. However, I think its clear that everyone who has posted here, is not interested in making any kind of profit, we simply enjoy the shape of a DB5 and would love to own a real one, or perhaps a very good facsimile for our own pleasure.
Somebody here said that making a mould would cost in the region of $7,000 US. why not form a consortium of folks, each willing to contribute an equal amount of money towards the construction of a super high quality and accurate mould of the DB5. With the mould made, members of the consortium (limited to say to 20 members) would have the right to additionally finance the construction of one shell, minus any interior or exterior trim or windows etc. Shipping would be an additional cost borne by each individual. With the completion of bodyshell No20, the moulds would be destroyed (under supervision, with an affidavit of destruction signed and witnessed).
A lottery would be set up to determine the order of recipients, each person would then in turn pay the full estimated cost of the body. The lead time could be used by each member to procure a suitable donor car and prepare it to accept the body. To speed up delivery, it may be worth considering making two or three moulds and each member contributes an equal sum towards the cost of making them all ( for example three moulds at $7k each, $7k x 3 = $21,000 divided by 20). Again, on completion of body No20, all moulds are destroyed, amounts settled and the consortium dissolves. This process could take a few years from start to finish but the end result may be worth the wait.
Just my thoughts here. Its a rough idea but I thought I would put it out there.
Ah another bonfire to piss on. )
Seriously though, going into a 'gentlemans agreement' etc and splitting the cost is a brilliant idea to keep the price down.
However, the big problem is the subject matter.
As you can imagine, Aston Martin are somewhat protective over the DB5 image, and get VERY annoyed when anyone even dreams of copying it. I think it's got something to do with some fictional spy being asscoiated with it, but I can't be sure. Anyway, as the entire progress made by AML since the mid sixties has a lot to do with the success of the DB5, you can quite understand why they get a little pissed when people talk of fibreglass copies etc.
Profit or no profit, copying the 5 would seriously rattle the sabre with AML. I dunno about you, but I couldn't even dream of going up against them in court, and I don't think uncle bez simply gives you a quiet word in your shell-like. A cease and decist letter from AML's lawyers would cause any joint project to fold instantly, leaving everyone out of pocket and quite possibly liable too. Is that a risk anyone could take?
See it's not about making money, signing agreements to limit production or saying you'll destroy the moulds afterwards. Regardless of all these conditions, you're still copying AML's design. The other thing is what happens when you die? Does the car you could never sell get destroyed as well, or does it finally get sold? In which case someone has made profit out of the project. It's all very sketchy ground.
Triumph can make retro bikes because they own the design. I dunno about triple C with the e-type, but there was that dutch company on top gear once with their retro design which 'loosely' followed the genuine 'e' design but technically speaking was quite a way off. It was not a direct copy either.
Which brings me on to the next point. If you copy the 5 design faithfully AML will come down on you like a ton of crap. If you change the design enough to call it something else you'll not have a 5, or many customers.
If the legal side of things didn't exist then I'd say go for it, all the best. But the world being what it is, and with the amount of lawyers around I really don't think the idea of making a limited run, a modified design, or in some cases even a one off will ever get further than the napkin you started sketching out on.
Sorry to be a downer on this, but I'm just pointing out what you seem to have over-looked.
MG -{
I don't think Aston Martin would stand a chance with any lawsuit as the car is 50 years old and copyrights would not count. If you called it an Aston Martin , referenced it or used any trademarks then there would be an issue.
I'm new to this thread but have read each post since the beginning. Obviously we all share a passion for not just any Aston Martin but the DB5 Model. Owning one is simply out of the question for many, but perhaps a good replica with modern underpinnings may not be beyond us. Consider this, Triumph motorcycles sell thousands of new Bonneville models (made in Indonesia ironically) allowing owners all the pleasure of a classically styled machine without the headaches of owning the original models from the 50's, 60's and 70's. In the early 80's a company called "Triple C" built fiberglass bodied E-Type replica's with space frame chassis and modern (at that time) suspension. All the aesthetic pleasures of E-type ownership without the headaches.
Reading the threads its clear that Aston Martin take a far less relaxed approach to the construction of DB5 replicas, and rightly so. However, I think its clear that everyone who has posted here, is not interested in making any kind of profit, we simply enjoy the shape of a DB5 and would love to own a real one, or perhaps a very good facsimile for our own pleasure.
Somebody here said that making a mould would cost in the region of $7,000 US. why not form a consortium of folks, each willing to contribute an equal amount of money towards the construction of a super high quality and accurate mould of the DB5. With the mould made, members of the consortium (limited to say to 20 members) would have the right to additionally finance the construction of one shell, minus any interior or exterior trim or windows etc. Shipping would be an additional cost borne by each individual. With the completion of bodyshell No20, the moulds would be destroyed (under supervision, with an affidavit of destruction signed and witnessed).
A lottery would be set up to determine the order of recipients, each person would then in turn pay the full estimated cost of the body. The lead time could be used by each member to procure a suitable donor car and prepare it to accept the body. To speed up delivery, it may be worth considering making two or three moulds and each member contributes an equal sum towards the cost of making them all ( for example three moulds at $7k each, $7k x 3 = $21,000 divided by 20). Again, on completion of body No20, all moulds are destroyed, amounts settled and the consortium dissolves. This process could take a few years from start to finish but the end result may be worth the wait.
Just my thoughts here. Its a rough idea but I thought I would put it out there.
Ah another bonfire to piss on. )
Seriously though, going into a 'gentlemans agreement' etc and splitting the cost is a brilliant idea to keep the price down.
However, the big problem is the subject matter.
As you can imagine, Aston Martin are somewhat protective over the DB5 image, and get VERY annoyed when anyone even dreams of copying it. I think it's got something to do with some fictional spy being asscoiated with it, but I can't be sure. Anyway, as the entire progress made by AML since the mid sixties has a lot to do with the success of the DB5, you can quite understand why they get a little pissed when people talk of fibreglass copies etc.
Profit or no profit, copying the 5 would seriously rattle the sabre with AML. I dunno about you, but I couldn't even dream of going up against them in court, and I don't think uncle bez simply gives you a quiet word in your shell-like. A cease and decist letter from AML's lawyers would cause any joint project to fold instantly, leaving everyone out of pocket and quite possibly liable too. Is that a risk anyone could take?
See it's not about making money, signing agreements to limit production or saying you'll destroy the moulds afterwards. Regardless of all these conditions, you're still copying AML's design. The other thing is what happens when you die? Does the car you could never sell get destroyed as well, or does it finally get sold? In which case someone has made profit out of the project. It's all very sketchy ground.
Triumph can make retro bikes because they own the design. I dunno about triple C with the e-type, but there was that dutch company on top gear once with their retro design which 'loosely' followed the genuine 'e' design but technically speaking was quite a way off. It was not a direct copy either.
Which brings me on to the next point. If you copy the 5 design faithfully AML will come down on you like a ton of crap. If you change the design enough to call it something else you'll not have a 5, or many customers.
If the legal side of things didn't exist then I'd say go for it, all the best. But the world being what it is, and with the amount of lawyers around I really don't think the idea of making a limited run, a modified design, or in some cases even a one off will ever get further than the napkin you started sketching out on.
Sorry to be a downer on this, but I'm just pointing out what you seem to have over-looked.
MG -{
I don't think Aston Martin would stand a chance with any lawsuit as the car is 50 years old and copyrights would not count. If you called it an Aston Martin , referenced it or used any trademarks then there would be an issue.
It's not about using names or trademarks, it's about intellectual property rights.
The 50 years things is incorrect too.
I'm seriously not trying to stop anyone or knock the wind out of anyone's sails, but guessing that 50 years is long enough, that AML just won't care or that keeping it limited to a secret squirrel consortium is going to magically make everything ok is just arrogant at best and downright suicidal at worst.
Copy the DB5 and AML WILL come knocking. Don't say I didn't tell you so. 8-)
I don't think Aston Martin would stand a chance with any lawsuit as the car is 50 years old and copyrights would not count. If you called it an Aston Martin , referenced it or used any trademarks then there would be an issue.
If you where correct, AML could not protect the traditional AM grille shape because that's also so old.
But they do - successfully
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think its a trademark issue and not a copyright one that you refer to. A change to the grill aperture would solve that.
I think a big cheer to the guys attempting these cars should be heard, this aint some pair of cufflinks, fake watch or wax jacket but a real iconic Bond replica -
Some people tolerate replicas, some don't, what I dont like is when someone passes something off as real when it is fake, I myself own hooky watches, but it is to use as gadget watches for my own collection, no way would I wear a fake watch.
So the DB5 project in a way appeals to me, only as a static display with working gadgets, I think you would look a right **** driving around in it, just as you would if you got caught out wearing a fake watch, but then it is only my opinion
Much like a crappy replica watch can be useless at accurate timekeeping, a replica DB5 with a different grille, and a BMW engine burbling away underneath would be anything close to a replica.
It's not going to be an iconic replica if it doesn't look the same.
Now if someone here was saying they wanted to design and build their own car (a personal dream of mine) then I'd be extremely interested and supportive. The problem with making these things, or indeed any copies/replicas is that if you get it wrong then people will moan about, and quite right to.
Have you seen the 'ashmart' vanquish kit that 'fits' onto a jag xk8 shell? Or the Mazda mx-5 vanquish 'look a like'? Or the DB9 replica that was built on a Toyota?
People ploughed thousands into these projects and they all looked crap.
If it's not done correctly then it'll look terrible. And changing the grille? The most iconic part of any aston and you think changing it will be ok? "Nice car mate, what's with the weird grille though?". It'd be like buying a pair of rip off 'Noke' trainers or a Juicy Salif with 4 legs.
When this thread started out I kinda knew which way it was going to go. It started as seemingly genuine interest and has ended up in quite a questionable place. Are we really being serious when people are suggesting using a BMW as a donor? Or making a shell from salvaged genuine AM panels? Or 3D printing a buck of THE WRONG CAR?
Besides, if copying a DB5 is so easy and legal as all the dreamers here think it is, why hasn't anyone done it before?
I openingly try to encourage people here to chase the dream and make stuff but it is so infuriating when I try and offer advice and knowledge and the only reply is some blinkered arrogant opinion. "I think it's a copyright issue, not trademark", "change the grille, I'd still buy one", "if we limit it to just 20 then AM won't mind".
This is purely people talking out of their arse. How does anyone here know for 100% certainty that AML won't get pissed off and shut down any project? Can anyone here afford to take that gamble and lay down their money with fingers firmly crossed?
Say a private consortium did start up, people put in their money then AML pulled the rug. Do the investors get their cash back? Do they loose it all or just a share of what's already been spent? If AML sued would you all stand together and fight or is it each man for himself? Plus by the time you've finished with all the other parts, running gear, interiors etc how much cheaper would this be? You could have a botched job kind of look a bit like DB5 or probably a genuine V8 vantage by the time you're done.
It's nice to dream isn't it but guys, get real. You'll either end up seriously out of pocket, possibly in court, or end up with just a shell which will never get made into a car. Even if you do get a car made it'll probably look a bit shabby, or be so far from the genuine article that people will politely just walk away to snigger later.
I applaud anyone for throwing themselves into a project and chasing their dreams, it's just that with this project the legal implications mean it's a non starter right from the word go.
I totally get where you are coming from. You are correct.
I loved the thought of meeting this challenge, was thinking out loud in my last post and just wanted to throw the idea of a consortium out there. It would require a great deal more planning than a few posts in an online forum. A fun mental puzzle at the very least.
I agree, an unsanctioned but faithful replica DB5 could bring AML down on everyone involved in making it, that is assuming of course AML was aware in the first place.
Regarding my comment about Triumph Motorcycles and their retro line of bikes. Actually, they were beaten to the market by Kawasaki, who build the retro looking WR650 (later the 900) which to the untrained eye could easily have been mistaken for an old Bonneville. (I think it actually looks better than the "new" Bonneville"). Kawasaki also previously built a model called "the Drifter" which closely resembled the style of the old Indian Motorcycles, down to the enormous valanced front fender. Honda, built the GB500, designed to look like the old British single cylinder machines. I did not see any legal action taken by Triumph, or the then owners of the Indian Brand (no other British manufacturer was around to challenge Honda!)
All the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers build full-size, V-Twin Cruisers to appeal to Harley Davidson owners. Some look exactly like a Harley. Yamaha most recently introduced a model which is almost a dead ringer for a Sportster to appeal to folks who like the look of the American bike but prefer Japanese engineering. Nobody has the copyright on the outline of a V Twin Cruiser bike, otherwise Harley would have enforced it vigorously and often. The sporster tank shape is ubiquitus.
Mazda, built a version of their Miata two seater (already closely resembling the old Lotus Elan) in British Racing Green with Tan leather to appeal to the nostalgia crowd who'd rather be driving their sports cars on weekends than working on them. Ford Motor Company's new Fusion and Fiesta models have grilles which closely resemble an Aston's. People like the retro look without the pain of maintaining a classic car or motorcycle. They want to experience some pleasure in ownership of something other than an econobox. The sort of project I had in mind would evoke that spirit but would not be an exact replica of a DB5. And lets face it, no matter how faithful a replica one created, its always going to be a replica!
Lets say that fun won out over common sense and a consortium was formed, there would be many risks involved which all members must understand, must agree to accept and bear without complaint prior to joining. They would have to understand that membership alone would not constitute a guarantee that a bodyshell would land on your driveway. For example, its possible that halfway through the production run, the plug (no pun intended) is pulled by AML who think the project is too close to home, and a cease and desist letter is sent, or the body you financed and waited patiently for could be destroyed in transit, or the workshop catches fire and the moulds are destroyed in the first place. There is risk but there would also be reward.
To minimize the financial risk. each member would only contribute funds towards the construction of his or her bodyshell just before work is scheduled to start. Each member would pay the entire cost in advance as their turn in the queue opened up, meaning that persons numbers 1 through 20, other than laying out the initial investment in the creation of the mould, would not have to contribute any additional funds until it is time to start laying down the bodyshell earmarked for him or her, thus reducing (but not eliminating) the financial risk to folks near or at the end of the line. Membership of the consortium would be absolutely non transferable, except to a spouse or offspring.
In the event of death, financial incapacity or a member decides to pull out for any reason, that member's place would be filled by the next in line, there could be an option of reducing the total number of bodyshells made as a result or "waitlisting" other individuals for inclusion.
As I said earlier; the finished result could never be anything but a replica, something "inspired" by the original. It would bring pleasure to its owner.
Sorry for another post. Minigeff. You are right. Also, somebody made an extremely good point about 20 folks clubbing together to buy a CD, then make copies. I have friends in the music industry who've watched the business make seizmic changes because of this.
It all comes down to AML and how vigorously they want to protect their rights. Nobody could blame them for doing so. I have a friend who is a copyright attorney. I think just for the exercise I will put this to him.
Sorry for another post. Minigeff. You are right. Also, somebody made an extremely good point about 20 folks clubbing together to buy a CD, then make copies. I have friends in the music industry who've watched the business make seizmic changes because of this.
It all comes down to AML and how vigorously they want to protect their rights. Nobody could blame them for doing so. I have a friend who is a copyright attorney. I think just for the exercise I will put this to him.
I enjoyed the mental challenge.
It'd be interesting to hear his views.
Thanks for not chucking the rattle and sensibly discussing yours views and opinions.
Make no mistake, I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just employing a bit of common sense.
If someone actually did make their own db5 then I would openly applaud it. If anyone can for a solid fact state how and why there's no reason you can't legally copy AM's design then I'll shut up and encourage anyone to go for it and chase this dream.
Sadly though, no one here has either shown anything promising or stated any legal argument other than speculation and guesswork.
Sorry for another post. Minigeff. You are right. Also, somebody made an extremely good point about 20 folks clubbing together to buy a CD, then make copies. I have friends in the music industry who've watched the business make seizmic changes because of this.
It all comes down to AML and how vigorously they want to protect their rights. Nobody could blame them for doing so. I have a friend who is a copyright attorney. I think just for the exercise I will put this to him.
I enjoyed the mental challenge.
It'd be interesting to hear his views.
Thanks for not chucking the rattle and sensibly discussing yours views and opinions.
Make no mistake, I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just employing a bit of common sense.
If someone actually did make their own db5 then I would openly applaud it. If anyone can for a solid fact state how and why there's no reason you can't legally copy AM's design then I'll shut up and encourage anyone to go for it and chase this dream.
Sadly though, no one here has either shown anything promising or stated any legal argument other than speculation and guesswork.
exactly, I was getting frustrated by your comments as I had completely ignored the people who think making this commercially would be a good idea, I do not think that and think its best to ignore them. Even giving them advise is just a waste of time as its a non starter.
Ignore the flight fantasists as that is too much hot air. I stand by all my posts in regard to making a one off car.
I am only interested in the guys making a one off personal car that would be one of the greatest film prop replicas.
I would like to kit my Golf out with gadgets ) , back in the 80s I had an XR3i with a tank smoke strapped under the car, and forward facing rocket launchers that at a press of a button heated wire wool in the tubes and wooosh
I also had a window washer in the front bumper to squirt pedestrians
At spy car upgrades we can offer the following for your Golf
Pre programmed fingerprint recognition locks ( no one will get in )
switch activated rear flap, loaded with fake dog poo
auto blackout windows, at the slightest hint of danger the windows will blackout so you won't see it ( thanks Douglas Adams)
Laser pointer system ( we have not found an actual use for this yet)
Fire extinguisher
Mud Flaps, these open on command and let mud out
I think I had better go for the fire extinguisher, have any of you guys seen a tank smoke go off ) It is a huge smoke grenade that tanks use as cover during battle
You are welcome Minigeff. You are right, it really is speculation and guesswork. before embarking on a project similar to the one I mused over here it would require a lot more than that. You'd need to be on legal terra firma and to be honest, given the experiences of friends in the music industry I find it hard to believe such a project would be allowed to proceed with AML's knowledge.
I was thinking out loud. Now that I have considered the matter more carefully, I remember stories of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars vigourously defending their intellectual rights, they really did not like anyone calling a product or service the "Rolls Royce of....." I also remember a chap building a Merlin engined car and sticking a Rolls Grille on the front of it, they did not like that either. Mind you, legend has it that when George Brough called his Brough Superior "The Rolls Royce of motorcycles" they actually checked and visited the factory and were shown into a room where a motorcycle was being meticulously assembled by hand. The Rolls men withdrew duly impressed and no further protest was raised. What they did not know was the bike they saw being assembled was a one-off for a race or sprint!
I, too would applaud anyone building their own DB5, I saw here that one guy is 3D printing his.
Sorry for another post. Minigeff. You are right. Also, somebody made an extremely good point about 20 folks clubbing together to buy a CD, then make copies. I have friends in the music industry who've watched the business make seizmic changes because of this.
It all comes down to AML and how vigorously they want to protect their rights. Nobody could blame them for doing so. I have a friend who is a copyright attorney. I think just for the exercise I will put this to him.
I enjoyed the mental challenge.
It'd be interesting to hear his views.
Thanks for not chucking the rattle and sensibly discussing yours views and opinions.
Make no mistake, I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just employing a bit of common sense.
If someone actually did make their own db5 then I would openly applaud it. If anyone can for a solid fact state how and why there's no reason you can't legally copy AM's design then I'll shut up and encourage anyone to go for it and chase this dream.
Sadly though, no one here has either shown anything promising or stated any legal argument other than speculation and guesswork.
Comments
Ah another bonfire to piss on.
Seriously though, going into a 'gentlemans agreement' etc and splitting the cost is a brilliant idea to keep the price down.
However, the big problem is the subject matter.
As you can imagine, Aston Martin are somewhat protective over the DB5 image, and get VERY annoyed when anyone even dreams of copying it. I think it's got something to do with some fictional spy being asscoiated with it, but I can't be sure. Anyway, as the entire progress made by AML since the mid sixties has a lot to do with the success of the DB5, you can quite understand why they get a little pissed when people talk of fibreglass copies etc.
Profit or no profit, copying the 5 would seriously rattle the sabre with AML. I dunno about you, but I couldn't even dream of going up against them in court, and I don't think uncle bez simply gives you a quiet word in your shell-like. A cease and decist letter from AML's lawyers would cause any joint project to fold instantly, leaving everyone out of pocket and quite possibly liable too. Is that a risk anyone could take?
See it's not about making money, signing agreements to limit production or saying you'll destroy the moulds afterwards. Regardless of all these conditions, you're still copying AML's design. The other thing is what happens when you die? Does the car you could never sell get destroyed as well, or does it finally get sold? In which case someone has made profit out of the project. It's all very sketchy ground.
Triumph can make retro bikes because they own the design. I dunno about triple C with the e-type, but there was that dutch company on top gear once with their retro design which 'loosely' followed the genuine 'e' design but technically speaking was quite a way off. It was not a direct copy either.
Which brings me on to the next point. If you copy the 5 design faithfully AML will come down on you like a ton of crap. If you change the design enough to call it something else you'll not have a 5, or many customers.
If the legal side of things didn't exist then I'd say go for it, all the best. But the world being what it is, and with the amount of lawyers around I really don't think the idea of making a limited run, a modified design, or in some cases even a one off will ever get further than the napkin you started sketching out on.
Sorry to be a downer on this, but I'm just pointing out what you seem to have over-looked.
MG -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
If you do a private copy from your number #1 song for your car stereo, this would not violate copyright.
Now if 20 of your friends would put 0,50 together to buy the CD and each one receives a "private copy" that would a violation of copyright.
Transferring that to a DB5 replica: If yiou are doing one for yourseplf, AML MAY (and that's written in capital letters) approve.
If 20 people throw money together to make 20 replicas, there will be trouble....
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I don't think Aston Martin would stand a chance with any lawsuit as the car is 50 years old and copyrights would not count. If you called it an Aston Martin , referenced it or used any trademarks then there would be an issue.
It's not about using names or trademarks, it's about intellectual property rights.
The 50 years things is incorrect too.
I'm seriously not trying to stop anyone or knock the wind out of anyone's sails, but guessing that 50 years is long enough, that AML just won't care or that keeping it limited to a secret squirrel consortium is going to magically make everything ok is just arrogant at best and downright suicidal at worst.
Copy the DB5 and AML WILL come knocking. Don't say I didn't tell you so. 8-)
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
said it !
If you where correct, AML could not protect the traditional AM grille shape because that's also so old.
But they do - successfully
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think a big cheer to the guys attempting these cars should be heard, this aint some pair of cufflinks, fake watch or wax jacket but a real iconic Bond replica -
I for one would love to see one
We're back to that 'whats the point of a cheap replica watch?' question again aren't we.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
So the DB5 project in a way appeals to me, only as a static display with working gadgets, I think you would look a right **** driving around in it, just as you would if you got caught out wearing a fake watch, but then it is only my opinion
Good point, and the answer being 'badly'.
Much like a crappy replica watch can be useless at accurate timekeeping, a replica DB5 with a different grille, and a BMW engine burbling away underneath would be anything close to a replica.
It's not going to be an iconic replica if it doesn't look the same.
Now if someone here was saying they wanted to design and build their own car (a personal dream of mine) then I'd be extremely interested and supportive. The problem with making these things, or indeed any copies/replicas is that if you get it wrong then people will moan about, and quite right to.
Have you seen the 'ashmart' vanquish kit that 'fits' onto a jag xk8 shell? Or the Mazda mx-5 vanquish 'look a like'? Or the DB9 replica that was built on a Toyota?
People ploughed thousands into these projects and they all looked crap.
If it's not done correctly then it'll look terrible. And changing the grille? The most iconic part of any aston and you think changing it will be ok? "Nice car mate, what's with the weird grille though?". It'd be like buying a pair of rip off 'Noke' trainers or a Juicy Salif with 4 legs.
When this thread started out I kinda knew which way it was going to go. It started as seemingly genuine interest and has ended up in quite a questionable place. Are we really being serious when people are suggesting using a BMW as a donor? Or making a shell from salvaged genuine AM panels? Or 3D printing a buck of THE WRONG CAR?
Besides, if copying a DB5 is so easy and legal as all the dreamers here think it is, why hasn't anyone done it before?
I openingly try to encourage people here to chase the dream and make stuff but it is so infuriating when I try and offer advice and knowledge and the only reply is some blinkered arrogant opinion. "I think it's a copyright issue, not trademark", "change the grille, I'd still buy one", "if we limit it to just 20 then AM won't mind".
This is purely people talking out of their arse. How does anyone here know for 100% certainty that AML won't get pissed off and shut down any project? Can anyone here afford to take that gamble and lay down their money with fingers firmly crossed?
Say a private consortium did start up, people put in their money then AML pulled the rug. Do the investors get their cash back? Do they loose it all or just a share of what's already been spent? If AML sued would you all stand together and fight or is it each man for himself? Plus by the time you've finished with all the other parts, running gear, interiors etc how much cheaper would this be? You could have a botched job kind of look a bit like DB5 or probably a genuine V8 vantage by the time you're done.
It's nice to dream isn't it but guys, get real. You'll either end up seriously out of pocket, possibly in court, or end up with just a shell which will never get made into a car. Even if you do get a car made it'll probably look a bit shabby, or be so far from the genuine article that people will politely just walk away to snigger later.
I applaud anyone for throwing themselves into a project and chasing their dreams, it's just that with this project the legal implications mean it's a non starter right from the word go.
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
so's the common sense but we can't have it all
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I totally get where you are coming from. You are correct.
I loved the thought of meeting this challenge, was thinking out loud in my last post and just wanted to throw the idea of a consortium out there. It would require a great deal more planning than a few posts in an online forum. A fun mental puzzle at the very least.
I agree, an unsanctioned but faithful replica DB5 could bring AML down on everyone involved in making it, that is assuming of course AML was aware in the first place.
Regarding my comment about Triumph Motorcycles and their retro line of bikes. Actually, they were beaten to the market by Kawasaki, who build the retro looking WR650 (later the 900) which to the untrained eye could easily have been mistaken for an old Bonneville. (I think it actually looks better than the "new" Bonneville"). Kawasaki also previously built a model called "the Drifter" which closely resembled the style of the old Indian Motorcycles, down to the enormous valanced front fender. Honda, built the GB500, designed to look like the old British single cylinder machines. I did not see any legal action taken by Triumph, or the then owners of the Indian Brand (no other British manufacturer was around to challenge Honda!)
All the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers build full-size, V-Twin Cruisers to appeal to Harley Davidson owners. Some look exactly like a Harley. Yamaha most recently introduced a model which is almost a dead ringer for a Sportster to appeal to folks who like the look of the American bike but prefer Japanese engineering. Nobody has the copyright on the outline of a V Twin Cruiser bike, otherwise Harley would have enforced it vigorously and often. The sporster tank shape is ubiquitus.
Mazda, built a version of their Miata two seater (already closely resembling the old Lotus Elan) in British Racing Green with Tan leather to appeal to the nostalgia crowd who'd rather be driving their sports cars on weekends than working on them. Ford Motor Company's new Fusion and Fiesta models have grilles which closely resemble an Aston's. People like the retro look without the pain of maintaining a classic car or motorcycle. They want to experience some pleasure in ownership of something other than an econobox. The sort of project I had in mind would evoke that spirit but would not be an exact replica of a DB5. And lets face it, no matter how faithful a replica one created, its always going to be a replica!
Lets say that fun won out over common sense and a consortium was formed, there would be many risks involved which all members must understand, must agree to accept and bear without complaint prior to joining. They would have to understand that membership alone would not constitute a guarantee that a bodyshell would land on your driveway. For example, its possible that halfway through the production run, the plug (no pun intended) is pulled by AML who think the project is too close to home, and a cease and desist letter is sent, or the body you financed and waited patiently for could be destroyed in transit, or the workshop catches fire and the moulds are destroyed in the first place. There is risk but there would also be reward.
To minimize the financial risk. each member would only contribute funds towards the construction of his or her bodyshell just before work is scheduled to start. Each member would pay the entire cost in advance as their turn in the queue opened up, meaning that persons numbers 1 through 20, other than laying out the initial investment in the creation of the mould, would not have to contribute any additional funds until it is time to start laying down the bodyshell earmarked for him or her, thus reducing (but not eliminating) the financial risk to folks near or at the end of the line. Membership of the consortium would be absolutely non transferable, except to a spouse or offspring.
In the event of death, financial incapacity or a member decides to pull out for any reason, that member's place would be filled by the next in line, there could be an option of reducing the total number of bodyshells made as a result or "waitlisting" other individuals for inclusion.
As I said earlier; the finished result could never be anything but a replica, something "inspired" by the original. It would bring pleasure to its owner.
It all comes down to AML and how vigorously they want to protect their rights. Nobody could blame them for doing so. I have a friend who is a copyright attorney. I think just for the exercise I will put this to him.
I enjoyed the mental challenge.
Hmm.. Of topic but. What the heck.all we need now is a finn mcmissile
Martin.
It'd be interesting to hear his views.
Thanks for not chucking the rattle and sensibly discussing yours views and opinions.
Make no mistake, I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just employing a bit of common sense.
If someone actually did make their own db5 then I would openly applaud it. If anyone can for a solid fact state how and why there's no reason you can't legally copy AM's design then I'll shut up and encourage anyone to go for it and chase this dream.
Sadly though, no one here has either shown anything promising or stated any legal argument other than speculation and guesswork.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Actually you are no expert in everything
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
More of a jack of all trades.
Besides, being cleverer than you look is better than looking cleverer than you are
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
exactly, I was getting frustrated by your comments as I had completely ignored the people who think making this commercially would be a good idea, I do not think that and think its best to ignore them. Even giving them advise is just a waste of time as its a non starter.
Ignore the flight fantasists as that is too much hot air. I stand by all my posts in regard to making a one off car.
I am only interested in the guys making a one off personal car that would be one of the greatest film prop replicas.
now, about those trainers..............
I also had a window washer in the front bumper to squirt pedestrians
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Pre programmed fingerprint recognition locks ( no one will get in )
switch activated rear flap, loaded with fake dog poo
auto blackout windows, at the slightest hint of danger the windows will blackout so you won't see it ( thanks Douglas Adams)
Laser pointer system ( we have not found an actual use for this yet)
Fire extinguisher
Mud Flaps, these open on command and let mud out
other items custom built on request
I think they're for pointing at large airliners on final approach, aren't they?
Hmm, I think I still have one somewhere
I was thinking out loud. Now that I have considered the matter more carefully, I remember stories of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars vigourously defending their intellectual rights, they really did not like anyone calling a product or service the "Rolls Royce of....." I also remember a chap building a Merlin engined car and sticking a Rolls Grille on the front of it, they did not like that either. Mind you, legend has it that when George Brough called his Brough Superior "The Rolls Royce of motorcycles" they actually checked and visited the factory and were shown into a room where a motorcycle was being meticulously assembled by hand. The Rolls men withdrew duly impressed and no further protest was raised. What they did not know was the bike they saw being assembled was a one-off for a race or sprint!
I, too would applaud anyone building their own DB5, I saw here that one guy is 3D printing his.
Check out 123d maker.
Imaginär this to be a db5 and in plywood.
The best is the software i free.
Martin.