That is one thing that truly baffles me - the vastly different opinions when it comes to the rankings. I will need to update my post from a couple of years ago when I did a compilation of everyone's top Bond films.
I'd put it ahead of NSNA, DAD and possibly stuff like QoS. Though QoS did have a couple of things in it, the pts car chase and opera stuff, which showed serious intent, set pieces that imo SF never quite delivered.
SF does have some ambition and scope to it. On Boxing Day, 10pm, in a few years' time I could imagine sitting down a bit merry and enjoying it in a lazy sort of way.
While I understand that you are not a fan of the reboot and far from a fan of Danny Craig, are you really telling me that with Oscars and BAFTAs this isn't up there with the all time greats, let alone the all time greatest Bond films? Thunderball remained the highest grossing Bond film for almost 50 years, failing to be toppled by huge events like YOLT, MR and the original reboot, Goldeneye. Skyfall will be the most talked about, written about and mimicked Bond movie for a generation!
Okay, are you saying you don't know what the word means?
It means "Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can." Source- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Ah well yes, mind you wasn't being as harsh as that with SW... But yes, trolling means creating a false, provocative argument to stir things up and get people going. Loads of it on imdb threads, annoyingly they can run to 10 pages and more as everyone takes the bait. Sophisticated trolling however often is like heckling, it has its own skill to it, and has an element that can't be gainsaid easily. Of course, columnists do this, Julie Burchill.
A good troll about CR on ajb was how did Bond get to console Vesper when a building has collasped and no police or reporters around or anything. But he said it was in Rome, so a mix of fair comment and daft misinformation. It was posted by an anoymous guy who was new.
Didn't they say before it came out that Skyfall wasn't going to be a direct sequel to CR and QoS? If so then we have no idea how far into Bond's career this movie takes place, he's obviously well versed in his actions, so I would safely bet this is beyond his third mission or so.
Also didn't they uncover that Silva was the one who engineered the theft of the hard drive with the list of agents on it? If so then that's why the focus shifts.
This is actually the one movie where I like that the gun barrel scene was at the end, the style of it was better than both CR and QoS. CR was just bad, QoS was too CGI. The only problem I have with Skyfall's is it's a little over exposed.
As for the topic, the hype never gets me, and for me this is third on my list after GoldenEye and Casino Royale.
Song wise Skyfall is first.
1, GE 2, CR 3, SF 4, TWINE 5, Spectre 6, TMWTGG 7, DAD 8, LALD 9, AVTAK 10, LTK 11, Octopussy 12, Moonraker 13, TLD 14, GF 15, QOS 16, Tomorrow 17, FYEO 18. TSWLM Not seen much: Dr. No, Russia, Thunderball, Twice, Majesty.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
I have it at #3 right behind Casino Royale and Goldeneye.
Those 3 movies are all 10/10 IMO though.
1: Casino Royale 2: Goldeneye 3: Skyfall 4: Octopussy 5: Goldfinger 6: Tomorrow Never Dies 7: The World Is Not Enough 8: The Living Daylights 9: From Russia With Love 10: The Spy Who Loved Me
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I have it at #3 right behind Casino Royale and Goldeneye.
Those 3 movies are all 10/10 IMO though.
1: Casino Royale 2: Goldeneye 3: Skyfall 4: Octopussy 5: Tomorrow Never Dies 6: The World Is Not Enough 7: The Living Daylights 8: From Russia With Love 9: Goldfinger 10: The Spy Who Loved Me
You have an interesting and eclectic top ten there, Raptors, which leads me to think you are a thoughtful and non-partisan fan. Being sandwiched between CR and SF is an interesting testament for GE, let alone having the other 2 "good" PB movies, no QoS, one Dalton and two Moore films for good measure, and you even included 2 Connerys but not at the top of the list!
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Finally saw this after so long... was marathoning the huge blu ray collection and wanted to wait to see it since I hadn't seen QoS yet either. Surprisingly, I enjoyed QoS and really didn't care for Skyfall at all so I'd have to say it will be a middle of the pack Bond film at best. If I can manage another viewing and it doesn't get better though.. it might be bottom 5 in my opinion. It just felt more like a Nolan Batman film than a Bond film at points.
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
Just a very middling Bond movie for me. Easily my least favorite Craig Bond move.
It's really odd, but I have never experienced such sharp diminishing returns with a Bond Movie.On first sight I loved it (admittedly at a pre-screening Premiere so it all felt a bit special) but on second viewing it dragged a bit and jarred (not bothered by plot inconsistencies ) and on subsequent viewings it gets worse. I don't hate it, but it seemed so nearly very good as to be a shame. I think that it's a 6 or 7 out of 10 ' could do better' of a Bond film. The really positive point is that finally Judy Dench as a meddling hectoring neuter of Bond has gone. I'll avoid seeing it for a while as I don't want to wind up hating it.
Well, as one has - in no particular order - to include Sean's first four, OHMSS, Spy, Tim's pair and CR - ahead of SKYFALL, it probably fits in mid table along side Pierce's run, but ahead of QOS and the tired, middle-aged pension efforts of Sean and Rog.
No masterpiece, but middling, and, therefore, rather disappointing.
Just a very middling Bond movie for me. Easily my least favorite Craig Bond move.
It's really odd, but I have never experienced such sharp diminishing returns with a Bond Movie.On first sight I loved it (admittedly at a pre-screening Premiere so it all felt a bit special) but on second viewing it dragged a bit and jarred (not bothered by plot inconsistencies ) and on subsequent viewings it gets worse. I don't hate it, but it seemed so nearly very good as to be a shame. I think that it's a 6 or 7 out of 10 ' could do better' of a Bond film. The really positive point is that finally Judy Dench as a meddling hectoring neuter of Bond has gone. I'll avoid seeing it for a while as I don't want to wind up hating it.
I like Skyfall more each time I see it (four times and counting). Different strokes, I guess.
I agree, BL. When I watched it the second time I was afraid that, with the glow gone, it would be a diminished film. Instead, I was amazed by what I hadn't appreciated the first time--the photography, the production design, the solid theme. As they say, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum. . .
Just a very middling Bond movie for me. Easily my least favorite Craig Bond move.
It's really odd, but I have never experienced such sharp diminishing returns with a Bond Movie.On first sight I loved it (admittedly at a pre-screening Premiere so it all felt a bit special) but on second viewing it dragged a bit and jarred (not bothered by plot inconsistencies ) and on subsequent viewings it gets worse. I don't hate it, but it seemed so nearly very good as to be a shame. I think that it's a 6 or 7 out of 10 ' could do better' of a Bond film. The really positive point is that finally Judy Dench as a meddling hectoring neuter of Bond has gone. I'll avoid seeing it for a while as I don't want to wind up hating it.
Perhaps I need to see it again to reverse the process.
It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to rank them now, so I actually charted the elements that matter to me, and Skyfall ends up at the very top just above Casino Royale. This movie has so much going for it: Craig at his best so far, mysterious female characters, an inriguing MI6 involvement, a terrifying villain, a killer song by Adele, and amazing cinematography.
Watched it once when it first came out,would have left the theatre early only my son purchased the tickets,so felt obliged to see it through,we'll that was six months ago so last night I decided to give it another go and really wished I had not botherd IMHO it's a pile of pap even (if possible worse than QOS) I have honestly given up all hope of seeing a Bond film as no doubt the next couple will be more of the same pretentious drivel.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to rank them now, ....
Me too, That's why I only keep track of my top Five.
after that I find it hard to pick. )
You're not joking. It really does get complicatede the further down the list that you attempt to go. It doesn't help that there are so very many completely divergent types of James Bond films to the point that the whole selection thing becomes unutterably insane.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Well, I paid to see Skyfall again. It's still on at Leicester Square, albeit Odeon Studios, a cute little cinema, used to be Odeon Mezzanine but it's been refurbished, has a Costa Coffee exterior and is bang next to the big Odeon Leicester Square.
What drew me a second time? Well, I took my mum to see it. She is 80 and has advanced Parkinson's, but she did seem to recognise 'James Bond' so I thought, okay, I'll give it ago. She's in a wheelchair, but the good thing about these screens is the wheelchair access; and it's nicely at the back rather than bang at the front like other cinemas, where you have to look up and be overwhelmed.
She seemed to enjoy it, went off a bit near the end but then some on this board have complained of the same feelings....
Thought I'd share my thoughts as I know you all enjoy them.
First, I liked the music a lot. Some of it could have been David Arnold, but it had more gravitas and I liked the 'tunes', some of the trumpetty sounds are a bit A View to A Kill, other moments early on put me in mind of Hamlisch and TSWLM. Not as tranformative a soundtrack as Barry's best scores (like MR, for instance) but pretty good, esp when it gets going and becomes urgent, albeit in a Bourne kind of way.
Skyfall is classic Bond in that there's a lot up on screen, plenty to hold the interest, and a good lot of dialogue. The plot trajectory owes a lot to DAD (Bond botches a mission, is out of the loop then welcomed back into the fold, plus it's an anniversary Bond film), the turnover of scenes on a par with DAD and GE, but all these films I'd have preferred had I been able to believe any of it.
There's a lot of subtext going on. Take the notorious William Tell scene with Severine. This is a mirror of the 'take the bloody shot' of the pts, only this time it's Bond under pressure, aiming at a woman, and being told what to do. Guess it's similar to the mirror in GE, when Bond says 'She means nothing to me!' and gets the same treatment later in Cuba when the woman bluffs - or maybe not - the guy holding a gun to Bond's head, to which Brozzer gives a priceless look.
Thing is, while this is clever, I didn't notice it at the time and was preoccupied with just how horrible the scene really is, and what an idiot Bond was to head out there unarmed, just show up, not even bringing a bottle to the party. What's more, it's not clear the director is aware of it either. Bond makes sour jibes about Eve shooting him, but I was more bothered about how he survived the shot and the fall, and anyway why did he blame her? She was just following orders, just as he was when he walked away from the dying Ronson. "They said that I should got to A&E, but M said 'No, No, No!"
Afterward the grisly William Tell scene, it's not clear that Bond has a different attitude to Eve after all this, though they don't say too much anyway. And anywhere, the silly triumphant tone of the helicopters arriving is what irked me.
The other subtext I've touched on; that M represents Bond's Mom, and her death and the destruction of Skyfall allows him to grieve fully and move on. Guess there was a poignancy seeing this film in the week that Thatcher had her funeral, perhaps the writers anticipated this? The Queen is in fine fettle.
So when Silva mentions how Bond's insubordination is caused by childhood trauma, and pauses significantly, that's where they are heading with it. And that's why Bond is all smarmy at the end with the new M, it is his way of saying, hey, I'm can be a good submissive now! But I was still reeling from how daft it is he doesn't even know Eve Moneypenny's name and how daftly it's been shoehorned in, and how M's attitude has changed, perhaps cos he succeeded in getting the silly cow out of his way, and how Craig's fluffs the final line 'With pleasure' or whether it is meant to have a double meaning, as a lot of the lines in the film do.
Anyway, surely Bond's insubordinate attitude is a mainstay of the character?
Of course, that Bond can now grow up and get on with things clashes with the other subtext, of getting too old and so on, all played out. For here, both he and M are meant to represent and England on its last legs, as the writers no doubt predicted the economic crisis would be biting at the time of the film's release. In a way, it hasn't quite yet, so they misplayed it, just as they did with the shuttle launch in MR and the North Korea crisis only now catching up with DAD.
All that stuff with Bond being out of shape doesn't amount to much.
And with M representing old England, Silva represents the Empire's colonies and how badly they've been treated and betrayed. Though they could not have predicted that Silva's real name, Rodriguez, would come to prominence. When he was quizzing an diconsolate Bond, I expected a funky baseline to start up, and Silva to get out his acoustic and start singing: "I wonder, how much you've been had / And I wonder, why ya looking so said / And I wonder, when you last had sex / And I wonder, if I'm gonna be next! / I wonder, I wonder I do."
Would beat Adele's dreary song into a cocked hat.
Not sure Searching for Sugar Man wouldn't be a bad Bond title.
So when Silva bangs on about how he's so tired, all this running around, towards the end, well it could be a reference to the UK exhausting itself policing the world and getting into wars. But really, I just saw it as a duff line.
Maybe having had Mallory tortured is a way of saying that he is the appropriate replacement for M, who let Silva be tortured.
The other subtext is the dialouge, so much of it nicked from other films, it at times sounded like one of our daft ajb threads, where you make a conversation out of lines from the movies. "The old ways are the best" about shaving with a cutthroat, but seemingly referring to sex here. Er, what you mean they'll be opting for missionary that night, rather than woman on top or reverse amazon? "Don't **** it up" from Mallory, like one of them to Bond in FYEO, but a bit out of character for Mallory. "Don't touch her she's mine" from Silva, paraphrasing Blush from NSNA. It's all rather distracting and takes you out of the movie a bit, just as the subtext do too, because it becomes clear someone has been thinking about it too much, someone is pulling the strings.
Anyway, those classic Bonds, they never had subtexts did they? You just got on with enjoying the movie, losing yourself in it. The hokey dialogue and sometimes clashing subtexts prevent you from doing that imo.
Lastly, the wtf moments remain. M draws herself up and admits that as he knew Silva was close to having his cover blown, she betrayed him anyway, let him be tortured in return for some agents and a smooth handover of Hong Kong. Erm... right. Nice woman. I mean, even Tony Blair would be unlikely to be caught doing something so vile towards his own men, and he is deeply hated. And we see no consideration on Bond's face when he hears this, no sign that this might be a scuzzy thing to do. In the script that might be a reason for him to not shoot Silva when he has a clear shot in the subway, that feeling of pity at the betrayal by his boss. Instead, he just seems to not do it cos he's dim, just as Q was dim to let himself be hacked, and M is dim at the inquiry, knocking back the minister with some rubbish, which said minister quietly accepts, emboldened, M starts reading a poem! It's pure Colonel Blimp, but it's like we are meant to admire it! It's as if the writer should have had a word with the director about his intentions.
Some other daft stuff, the acting between Dench and M where he tries to get her to resign is oddly awful and stagey.
Why is Bond surprised that M should lie to him? All bosses do that. Surely he'd know he hadn't passed his tests, we only see him fluff every one. Jeez, is he thick.
Daniel Craig runs like frickin' Bod, just watch his little legs go, like a cartoon. But other times Craig has come into his own as an actor, he has a certain way about him more in this film.
Some dialouge is a bit cute, a bit clever, such as the moving target stuff between Bond and Eve. But it makes me feel like Jack Lemmon saying exasperatedly 'Nobody talks like that!' It's like the talk of figures and hidden assets in the TWINE pts. It's clever, but makes it hard to believe in with what sets out to be a grittier movie. But I like some of it, such as when Craig says 'You put on a good show' to Severine.
Then again, I agree that Skyfall is far removed from CR and QoS, it's another reboot of sorts. If anything, his role with the Queen in the Olympics prepared us for this. I would have put Skyfall as a double bill with OHMSS, as they are both Bondcentric (the title is named after Bond, not a villain) but now I'd put it alongside YOLT. Yep. They are both epic, they have the rebirth theme, Bond is getting older, there's a touch of the Orient, but mostly you're just meant to go with it and not question any of it, if you want to enjoy it. In that sense, they're of the same genre, but some may prefer the more dour approach of Craig. That's more a matter of taste.
Nice post NP -{ , I enjoyed reading it.
I agree Craig seemed to be more comfortable
at Playing Bond in Skyfall, and yes IMHO it's
a finessing of the reboot. To a more traditional
set up for future Films.
Sorry to hear about your Mum, its a terrible diease.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
2: Casino Royale
3: Goldfinger -{
I think Skyfall is a classic, and will be a bond film to be remembered.
2, casino royale
3, goldfinger
SF does have some ambition and scope to it. On Boxing Day, 10pm, in a few years' time I could imagine sitting down a bit merry and enjoying it in a lazy sort of way.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
While I understand that you are not a fan of the reboot and far from a fan of Danny Craig, are you really telling me that with Oscars and BAFTAs this isn't up there with the all time greats, let alone the all time greatest Bond films? Thunderball remained the highest grossing Bond film for almost 50 years, failing to be toppled by huge events like YOLT, MR and the original reboot, Goldeneye. Skyfall will be the most talked about, written about and mimicked Bond movie for a generation!
Erm....in my opinion. Lol.
It got one measley Oscar didn't it? Anyway, many would argue TB isn't that great.
It also benefitted from it being a rubbish year for movies, nothing to steal its thunder.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
thats what makes this club so good ,we all have vastly different opinons
but we all share the same opinon (Bond is numero uno)
Two Oscars....
Best Sound Editing and Best Song!
What's trolling??
Okay, are you saying you don't know what the word means?
It means "Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can."
Source- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
A good troll about CR on ajb was how did Bond get to console Vesper when a building has collasped and no police or reporters around or anything. But he said it was in Rome, so a mix of fair comment and daft misinformation. It was posted by an anoymous guy who was new.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
2, casino royale
3, goldfinger
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Also didn't they uncover that Silva was the one who engineered the theft of the hard drive with the list of agents on it? If so then that's why the focus shifts.
This is actually the one movie where I like that the gun barrel scene was at the end, the style of it was better than both CR and QoS. CR was just bad, QoS was too CGI. The only problem I have with Skyfall's is it's a little over exposed.
As for the topic, the hype never gets me, and for me this is third on my list after GoldenEye and Casino Royale.
Song wise Skyfall is first.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
Those 3 movies are all 10/10 IMO though.
You have an interesting and eclectic top ten there, Raptors, which leads me to think you are a thoughtful and non-partisan fan. Being sandwiched between CR and SF is an interesting testament for GE, let alone having the other 2 "good" PB movies, no QoS, one Dalton and two Moore films for good measure, and you even included 2 Connerys but not at the top of the list!
It's really odd, but I have never experienced such sharp diminishing returns with a Bond Movie.On first sight I loved it (admittedly at a pre-screening Premiere so it all felt a bit special) but on second viewing it dragged a bit and jarred (not bothered by plot inconsistencies ) and on subsequent viewings it gets worse. I don't hate it, but it seemed so nearly very good as to be a shame. I think that it's a 6 or 7 out of 10 ' could do better' of a Bond film. The really positive point is that finally Judy Dench as a meddling hectoring neuter of Bond has gone. I'll avoid seeing it for a while as I don't want to wind up hating it.
No masterpiece, but middling, and, therefore, rather disappointing.
I agree, BL. When I watched it the second time I was afraid that, with the glow gone, it would be a diminished film. Instead, I was amazed by what I hadn't appreciated the first time--the photography, the production design, the solid theme. As they say, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum. . .
Perhaps I need to see it again to reverse the process.
Me too, That's why I only keep track of my top Five.
after that I find it hard to pick.
You're not joking. It really does get complicatede the further down the list that you attempt to go. It doesn't help that there are so very many completely divergent types of James Bond films to the point that the whole selection thing becomes unutterably insane.
What drew me a second time? Well, I took my mum to see it. She is 80 and has advanced Parkinson's, but she did seem to recognise 'James Bond' so I thought, okay, I'll give it ago. She's in a wheelchair, but the good thing about these screens is the wheelchair access; and it's nicely at the back rather than bang at the front like other cinemas, where you have to look up and be overwhelmed.
She seemed to enjoy it, went off a bit near the end but then some on this board have complained of the same feelings....
Thought I'd share my thoughts as I know you all enjoy them.
First, I liked the music a lot. Some of it could have been David Arnold, but it had more gravitas and I liked the 'tunes', some of the trumpetty sounds are a bit A View to A Kill, other moments early on put me in mind of Hamlisch and TSWLM. Not as tranformative a soundtrack as Barry's best scores (like MR, for instance) but pretty good, esp when it gets going and becomes urgent, albeit in a Bourne kind of way.
Skyfall is classic Bond in that there's a lot up on screen, plenty to hold the interest, and a good lot of dialogue. The plot trajectory owes a lot to DAD (Bond botches a mission, is out of the loop then welcomed back into the fold, plus it's an anniversary Bond film), the turnover of scenes on a par with DAD and GE, but all these films I'd have preferred had I been able to believe any of it.
There's a lot of subtext going on. Take the notorious William Tell scene with Severine. This is a mirror of the 'take the bloody shot' of the pts, only this time it's Bond under pressure, aiming at a woman, and being told what to do. Guess it's similar to the mirror in GE, when Bond says 'She means nothing to me!' and gets the same treatment later in Cuba when the woman bluffs - or maybe not - the guy holding a gun to Bond's head, to which Brozzer gives a priceless look.
Thing is, while this is clever, I didn't notice it at the time and was preoccupied with just how horrible the scene really is, and what an idiot Bond was to head out there unarmed, just show up, not even bringing a bottle to the party. What's more, it's not clear the director is aware of it either. Bond makes sour jibes about Eve shooting him, but I was more bothered about how he survived the shot and the fall, and anyway why did he blame her? She was just following orders, just as he was when he walked away from the dying Ronson. "They said that I should got to A&E, but M said 'No, No, No!"
Afterward the grisly William Tell scene, it's not clear that Bond has a different attitude to Eve after all this, though they don't say too much anyway. And anywhere, the silly triumphant tone of the helicopters arriving is what irked me.
The other subtext I've touched on; that M represents Bond's Mom, and her death and the destruction of Skyfall allows him to grieve fully and move on. Guess there was a poignancy seeing this film in the week that Thatcher had her funeral, perhaps the writers anticipated this? The Queen is in fine fettle.
So when Silva mentions how Bond's insubordination is caused by childhood trauma, and pauses significantly, that's where they are heading with it. And that's why Bond is all smarmy at the end with the new M, it is his way of saying, hey, I'm can be a good submissive now! But I was still reeling from how daft it is he doesn't even know Eve Moneypenny's name and how daftly it's been shoehorned in, and how M's attitude has changed, perhaps cos he succeeded in getting the silly cow out of his way, and how Craig's fluffs the final line 'With pleasure' or whether it is meant to have a double meaning, as a lot of the lines in the film do.
Anyway, surely Bond's insubordinate attitude is a mainstay of the character?
Of course, that Bond can now grow up and get on with things clashes with the other subtext, of getting too old and so on, all played out. For here, both he and M are meant to represent and England on its last legs, as the writers no doubt predicted the economic crisis would be biting at the time of the film's release. In a way, it hasn't quite yet, so they misplayed it, just as they did with the shuttle launch in MR and the North Korea crisis only now catching up with DAD.
All that stuff with Bond being out of shape doesn't amount to much.
And with M representing old England, Silva represents the Empire's colonies and how badly they've been treated and betrayed. Though they could not have predicted that Silva's real name, Rodriguez, would come to prominence. When he was quizzing an diconsolate Bond, I expected a funky baseline to start up, and Silva to get out his acoustic and start singing: "I wonder, how much you've been had / And I wonder, why ya looking so said / And I wonder, when you last had sex / And I wonder, if I'm gonna be next! / I wonder, I wonder I do."
Would beat Adele's dreary song into a cocked hat.
Not sure Searching for Sugar Man wouldn't be a bad Bond title.
So when Silva bangs on about how he's so tired, all this running around, towards the end, well it could be a reference to the UK exhausting itself policing the world and getting into wars. But really, I just saw it as a duff line.
Maybe having had Mallory tortured is a way of saying that he is the appropriate replacement for M, who let Silva be tortured.
The other subtext is the dialouge, so much of it nicked from other films, it at times sounded like one of our daft ajb threads, where you make a conversation out of lines from the movies. "The old ways are the best" about shaving with a cutthroat, but seemingly referring to sex here. Er, what you mean they'll be opting for missionary that night, rather than woman on top or reverse amazon? "Don't **** it up" from Mallory, like one of them to Bond in FYEO, but a bit out of character for Mallory. "Don't touch her she's mine" from Silva, paraphrasing Blush from NSNA. It's all rather distracting and takes you out of the movie a bit, just as the subtext do too, because it becomes clear someone has been thinking about it too much, someone is pulling the strings.
Anyway, those classic Bonds, they never had subtexts did they? You just got on with enjoying the movie, losing yourself in it. The hokey dialogue and sometimes clashing subtexts prevent you from doing that imo.
Lastly, the wtf moments remain. M draws herself up and admits that as he knew Silva was close to having his cover blown, she betrayed him anyway, let him be tortured in return for some agents and a smooth handover of Hong Kong. Erm... right. Nice woman. I mean, even Tony Blair would be unlikely to be caught doing something so vile towards his own men, and he is deeply hated. And we see no consideration on Bond's face when he hears this, no sign that this might be a scuzzy thing to do. In the script that might be a reason for him to not shoot Silva when he has a clear shot in the subway, that feeling of pity at the betrayal by his boss. Instead, he just seems to not do it cos he's dim, just as Q was dim to let himself be hacked, and M is dim at the inquiry, knocking back the minister with some rubbish, which said minister quietly accepts, emboldened, M starts reading a poem! It's pure Colonel Blimp, but it's like we are meant to admire it! It's as if the writer should have had a word with the director about his intentions.
Some other daft stuff, the acting between Dench and M where he tries to get her to resign is oddly awful and stagey.
Why is Bond surprised that M should lie to him? All bosses do that. Surely he'd know he hadn't passed his tests, we only see him fluff every one. Jeez, is he thick.
Daniel Craig runs like frickin' Bod, just watch his little legs go, like a cartoon. But other times Craig has come into his own as an actor, he has a certain way about him more in this film.
Some dialouge is a bit cute, a bit clever, such as the moving target stuff between Bond and Eve. But it makes me feel like Jack Lemmon saying exasperatedly 'Nobody talks like that!' It's like the talk of figures and hidden assets in the TWINE pts. It's clever, but makes it hard to believe in with what sets out to be a grittier movie. But I like some of it, such as when Craig says 'You put on a good show' to Severine.
Then again, I agree that Skyfall is far removed from CR and QoS, it's another reboot of sorts. If anything, his role with the Queen in the Olympics prepared us for this. I would have put Skyfall as a double bill with OHMSS, as they are both Bondcentric (the title is named after Bond, not a villain) but now I'd put it alongside YOLT. Yep. They are both epic, they have the rebirth theme, Bond is getting older, there's a touch of the Orient, but mostly you're just meant to go with it and not question any of it, if you want to enjoy it. In that sense, they're of the same genre, but some may prefer the more dour approach of Craig. That's more a matter of taste.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I agree Craig seemed to be more comfortable
at Playing Bond in Skyfall, and yes IMHO it's
a finessing of the reboot. To a more traditional
set up for future Films.
Sorry to hear about your Mum, its a terrible diease.