I have no problem with a change - Grumpy Miley Cyrus - I loved the Moore age (minus some over-silly stuff like the Tarzan yell - I know 8-) but I put the blame on Glen mostly) - but welcomed Brosnan and Craig - last is a totally different kind of animal to Moore at least.
So your analysis is what it is - completely wrong
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Grumpy Miley Cyrus ? I'm still not wearing the dress for you though, you smooth talking b@stard
I think you love Dalton SO much, you have scared yourself and so you over-compensate by saying these things....you call him the 'weepy Bond' because you want to hug him and wipe his tears away
Dalton and Glen got wrongfooted. For years it had all about making a serious, gritty Bond flick, but Moore kind of prevented that. Then, when they finally got the chance, the other films of that year - Batman, Indy and Lethal Weapon 2 - had more Bondian traits than LTK. LTK was just warm beer in comparison, plus the Bond creative team were at a low ebb. The stunts weren't just original and while Willis and Gibson were able to run with the best of them, Dalaton never seemed too athletic to me, he didn't look so great when he got his shirt off either.
Dalton and Glen got wrongfooted. For years it had all about making a serious, gritty Bond flick, but Moore kind of prevented that. Then, when they finally got the chance, the other films of that year - Batman, Indy and Lethal Weapon 2 - had more Bondian traits than LTK. LTK was just warm beer in comparison, plus the Bond creative team were at a low ebb. The stunts weren't just original and while Willis and Gibson were able to run with the best of them, Dalaton never seemed too athletic to me, he didn't look so great when he got his shirt off either.
Sorry Nap, but that does not make sense.
Glen made a more gritty Moore Bond with FYEO and if you are watching his commentaries on the Blurays, Glen is absolutely proud for planting his kind of humor in all of his movies particularly with scenes, that are criticized by most of us.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
FYEO is more gritty than MR, that's all you can say. It just doesn't quite get there, the finale of the pts is kind of typical, and all that Bibi nonsense... Anyway, they had a quick relapse with OP and AVTAK (to the better imo) to a broader appeal.
I think Dalton wanted more humour in LTK but Glen nixed it. Not diagreeing that Glen added rubbish humour in his earlier films. With LTK they were able to finally make that gritty Bond film without Moore's ambivalence and style holding them back, or having to adhere to a first draft intended for Moore or Brosnan (as suggested with TLD).
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
It just says, that the audience decided that Bond was less appealing than the other movie for a reason and in that case, it was mostly the main actor and his overly serious approach to the role, which has never convinced me.
Is that an opinion or a fact? If it is a fact, please cite a reference. If it is an opinion, please say so.
It just says, that the audience decided that Bond was less appealing than the other movie for a reason and in that case, it was mostly the main actor and his overly serious approach to the role, which has never convinced me.
Never mind the fact that I think box office numbers mean jack ****, how the hell do you know what the reason is? Is that some anti-Dalton speculation on your part, or is that fact? If that is fact, please provide a source!
well, I won't entertain you with the abc of successful brands and franchises.
a would be that if you have a successful franchise for some decades and the revenues decrease instead of raising - particularly compared to other big brands, then your product is not accepted anymore by the market - particularly after you have changed some key factors in your recent product ( for a movie that means the main actor, the tone of the movies etc.).
As in the main market (USA) Dalton was not accepted well (just google it), it's safe to say, that he was a main factor for the lack of success.
And as far as I am aware, back then the bo numbers where the reasons, why producers spent money into movies - I may be wrong
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Never let the facts get in the way of one's own opinion....
Dalton, who IMO didn't look great w/o his shirt on (they tried to compensate by making him scarred) actually proved to be very athletic and did an unusually large amount of his own stunts (including hanging from the top of the truck in the TLD pre title sequence). As far as Dalton being accepted as Bond in the USA...it's just not accurate (and shouldn't be taken as any less love for Roger Moore). TLD was a solid box office hit (UA's biggest grossing film for that year). LTK did well, but under performed. LTK has its shortcomings, but fell victim to poor marketing combined and a huge miscalculation on EON/MGM's part by releasing it in the summer of Indiana Jones, Batman, Lethal Weapon, etc. One might notice that no Bond films since LTK have been summer releases.
Never let the facts get in the way of one's own opinion....
Well, that obviously applies to you :v
LTK did not underperform, it ended at #36 that year.
There is a reason why LTK could not perform like the big hits and these also started that summer.
TLD performed so-so because usually the audience is interested in the new guy. Their acceptance for him shows in the next movie and rank 36 speaks a clear language.
As for his acceptance in the US, you have your opinion almost exclusively - no matter how often you repeat that mythbuliding
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Never let the facts get in the way of one's own opinion....
Dalton, who IMO didn't look great w/o his shirt on (they tried to compensate by making him scarred) actually proved to be very athletic and did an unusually large amount of his own stunts (including hanging from the top of the truck in the TLD pre title sequence). As far as Dalton being accepted as Bond in the USA...it's just not accurate (and shouldn't be taken as any less love for Roger Moore). TLD was a solid box office hit (UA's biggest grossing film for that year). LTK did well, but under performed. LTK has its shortcomings, but fell victim to poor marketing combined and a huge miscalculation on EON/MGM's part by releasing it in the summer of Indiana Jones, Batman, Lethal Weapon, etc. One might notice that no Bond films since LTK have been summer releases.
I'm in agreement with this. LTK being released in the summer was the reason for its comparative failure. As you say, Eon sure learned their lesson, they did. I've got no time for this protracted and unfair bitterness against Dalton. He did a damned fine job and Daniel Craig has followed his lead IMHO.
I'm in agreement with this. LTK being released in the summer was the reason for its compatative failure.....
) That's hilarious!
Please provide with a source
Sometimes I get the feeling that all these Dalton threads are ran by a sect or cult thing
Yes, and your name is on the hit list for sure! )
My source - look at the big hitters it was up against in Summer 1989 - look at the link you yourself provided!
No other Bond film before or since has been up against anything like this before. If the film had been released in Ovctober 1989 maybe things would have been very different box-office-wise. And don't forget it was a 15 Certificate - that barred a lot of young teens/children that would otherwise have went along to see it! There are sop very many things about LTK that make it esxceptional when compared with Bonds both before and since, but gladly Eon learned from their mistakes on LTK and there hasn't been a Summer Bond film since and for good enough reason!
Is it me or does anyone else think mr pinstripe seems a little like mr silhouette?
I don't know who that is. Nor do I care. I am Colonel Pinstripe. I don't let anyone else speak for me. Come and see me if you have a problem with me. Don't piss over a thread instead.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
In my point of vew many here romantize his performance - just because he contrasted to Moore's performance so much
Now here's my point of view. I don't see any romanticizing of Dalton's performance. Instead what I see is that many fans, myself included, enjoyed Dalton's performance because it was interesting, skillful, and completely in keeping with what we feel Bond should be. Although Dalton isn't my favorite Bond, he is the Bond I see in my mind's eye now whenever I read one of Fleming's books. When you pin the so-called "failure" of LTK on audiences just not liking Dalton as Bond, certainly you are entitled to look at certain circumstances and speculate that it could be the reason. But as I believe you have stated, that's your reasoned opinion, not a fact. I recall a palpable sense of excitement among me and my Bond-loving friends when LTK was released in the U.S., and we were certainly not disappointed after we viewed the movie (some of us multiple times). We were crushed when Dalton's tenure ended after only two films, and it still strikes me as a seriously missed opportunity.
Comments
So your analysis is what it is - completely wrong
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think you love Dalton SO much, you have scared yourself and so you over-compensate by saying these things....you call him the 'weepy Bond' because you want to hug him and wipe his tears away
Roger Moore 1927-2017
My wife also complains, that I am always over-compensating my motherly feelings and hidden homosexual tendencies - but I am what I am
Now where are the next tears to dry
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sorry Nap, but that does not make sense.
Glen made a more gritty Moore Bond with FYEO and if you are watching his commentaries on the Blurays, Glen is absolutely proud for planting his kind of humor in all of his movies particularly with scenes, that are criticized by most of us.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think Dalton wanted more humour in LTK but Glen nixed it. Not diagreeing that Glen added rubbish humour in his earlier films. With LTK they were able to finally make that gritty Bond film without Moore's ambivalence and style holding them back, or having to adhere to a first draft intended for Moore or Brosnan (as suggested with TLD).
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I couldn't disagree more, Bondtots.....I don't think you HIDE them at all
ok, then the thousands of quids which went into my therapy where not all wasted ..
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No...but you should have spent it on a nice dress for yourself
Is that an opinion or a fact? If it is a fact, please cite a reference. If it is an opinion, please say so.
LTK = rank 36
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I am referring to:
Never mind the fact that I think box office numbers mean jack ****, how the hell do you know what the reason is? Is that some anti-Dalton speculation on your part, or is that fact? If that is fact, please provide a source!
a would be that if you have a successful franchise for some decades and the revenues decrease instead of raising - particularly compared to other big brands, then your product is not accepted anymore by the market - particularly after you have changed some key factors in your recent product ( for a movie that means the main actor, the tone of the movies etc.).
As in the main market (USA) Dalton was not accepted well (just google it), it's safe to say, that he was a main factor for the lack of success.
And as far as I am aware, back then the bo numbers where the reasons, why producers spent money into movies - I may be wrong
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton, who IMO didn't look great w/o his shirt on (they tried to compensate by making him scarred) actually proved to be very athletic and did an unusually large amount of his own stunts (including hanging from the top of the truck in the TLD pre title sequence). As far as Dalton being accepted as Bond in the USA...it's just not accurate (and shouldn't be taken as any less love for Roger Moore). TLD was a solid box office hit (UA's biggest grossing film for that year). LTK did well, but under performed. LTK has its shortcomings, but fell victim to poor marketing combined and a huge miscalculation on EON/MGM's part by releasing it in the summer of Indiana Jones, Batman, Lethal Weapon, etc. One might notice that no Bond films since LTK have been summer releases.
Well, that obviously applies to you :v
LTK did not underperform, it ended at #36 that year.
There is a reason why LTK could not perform like the big hits and these also started that summer.
TLD performed so-so because usually the audience is interested in the new guy. Their acceptance for him shows in the next movie and rank 36 speaks a clear language.
As for his acceptance in the US, you have your opinion almost exclusively - no matter how often you repeat that mythbuliding
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm in agreement with this. LTK being released in the summer was the reason for its comparative failure. As you say, Eon sure learned their lesson, they did. I've got no time for this protracted and unfair bitterness against Dalton. He did a damned fine job and Daniel Craig has followed his lead IMHO.
Please provide with a source
Sometimes I get the feeling that all these Dalton threads are ran by a sect or cult thing
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yes, and your name is on the hit list for sure!
My source - look at the big hitters it was up against in Summer 1989 - look at the link you yourself provided!
No other Bond film before or since has been up against anything like this before. If the film had been released in Ovctober 1989 maybe things would have been very different box-office-wise. And don't forget it was a 15 Certificate - that barred a lot of young teens/children that would otherwise have went along to see it! There are sop very many things about LTK that make it esxceptional when compared with Bonds both before and since, but gladly Eon learned from their mistakes on LTK and there hasn't been a Summer Bond film since and for good enough reason!
And I am still waiting for a source for your claim, that it was the summer release
Maybe you blame Santa next time for the failure of LTK now?
You are a strange man, colonel!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, it was a 12A. GoldenEye was 12 on release and then 15 for DVD release due to Xenia's headbutt of Natalya!
LTK and GE are the only 15s therefore, surprisingly the violent Craig era has only had 12As so far!
I'm no stranger than the next man, Mr Bondtoys. Trust the Colonel. He knows his stuff.
Just admit that you have been beaten by a superior argument. I know that you can do that for me.
That it was the summer?
Ad if GE was rated 15 , did it suck at the BO because of that?
Yes, may live the illusion that you are right or superior - you are not!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, it wasn't rated 15 at the box office at all. It was rated 15 on DVD release. It was rated 12 at the box office on release in October '95.
As I said above, Eon have never made the mistake of releasing a Bond film in the summer since its comparative failure in 1989 with LTK.
I don't know who that is. Nor do I care. I am Colonel Pinstripe. I don't let anyone else speak for me. Come and see me if you have a problem with me. Don't piss over a thread instead.
They are...good job we don't sacrifice virgins anymore or else you could find us knocking on your door
Since I had burglars here, a lot has changed and there is a plan a, b and c ready
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The thief was dealt with but the egg was lost in the river.
Now here's my point of view. I don't see any romanticizing of Dalton's performance. Instead what I see is that many fans, myself included, enjoyed Dalton's performance because it was interesting, skillful, and completely in keeping with what we feel Bond should be. Although Dalton isn't my favorite Bond, he is the Bond I see in my mind's eye now whenever I read one of Fleming's books. When you pin the so-called "failure" of LTK on audiences just not liking Dalton as Bond, certainly you are entitled to look at certain circumstances and speculate that it could be the reason. But as I believe you have stated, that's your reasoned opinion, not a fact. I recall a palpable sense of excitement among me and my Bond-loving friends when LTK was released in the U.S., and we were certainly not disappointed after we viewed the movie (some of us multiple times). We were crushed when Dalton's tenure ended after only two films, and it still strikes me as a seriously missed opportunity.