A Question For severe 20th Century Bond Fans ONLY

chrisisall

IMO, classic Bond movies are over. Have been since 1997.
And if you agree, what is YOUR last great Bond adventure? Or the line to it?

Thoughts?

James Suzuki

It ended in 89, the new films are great though.

Mr Beech

James Suzuki wrote:

It ended in 89, the new films are great though.

I agree with this. I consider Goldeneye to be the first reboot in the series. The welcoming of Bond to modern spy-action cinema and slick new designs from the title sequence to the special effects. The tone just feels like a new shot ringing loud from the barrel in a new way when Goldeneye gets started. No longer classic, but absolutely skillful production that may be viewed differently for some future viewer.

Casino Royale, of course, is a reboot as well.

James Suzuki

I think the cold war ending is one of the reasons also from 9/11 when the Craig reboot started.

NeverSayDie

I consider the modern era of Bond from Goldeneye.

Smiert-Spionam

Even though I'm 24, and Goldeneye was the first Bond film I remember seeing properly, the classic era ended in 1989 with LTK. The ending to Licence to Kill, especially with the Patti Labelle song at the end, really says 'The End' to me. Everything that has happened afterwards doesn't seem connected somehow. Hard to explain but I hope you guys are grasping what I'm trying to get at...

Brosnan_fan

If you are talking about the last great "classic" Bond film, I would say it would have to be TSWLM.

However, I do like all the "modern" 20th Century Bonds from MR onwards (with the exception of AVTAK |) ).

Silhouette Man

Yes, GoldenEye marks the modern James Bond Era, but Casino Royale is a very clear new beginning from even this...

Napoleon Plural

Last one was AVTAK for me, with special mention to the look of GE and also TWINE generally, which has a wit and smoothness of the better Moore films.

The first 25 years were all about fun and quality, generally moving away from Fleming, with temporary blips like OHMSS and FYEO which had admirable intentions but somehow let themselves down in some way.

ChromeJob

chrisisall wrote:

And if you agree, what is YOUR last great Bond adventure? Or the line to it?

Thunderball.


I'm showing my age. Where's my nurse to wheel me into the sun room for my afternoon nap?!

chrisisall

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, GoldenEye marks the modern James Bond Era,

I humbly disagree- Goldeneye brings new things, but embraces old as well.
IMO CR marks the modern James Bond era because it changed the look of the Bond character most radically, it changed the level of acceptable graphic violence, and it was a full-on re-boot, which GE actually wasn't (female M notwithstanding).

ChromeJob

I suppose if you mean a sort of bringing Bond into contemporary styles ... arguably, TLD made the change, with Dalton's attire (that really cool leather coat). Moore's attire and, dare I say, style was that of an older generation. Dalton's Bond was a modern fellow. GE seemed to do it more, I remember thinking, Wow, they've let Brosnan keep his longish hair, and he looks young (not as young as if he'd been able to do TLD).

Firemass

ChromeJob wrote:

I suppose if you mean a sort of bringing Bond into contemporary styles ... arguably, TLD made the change, with Dalton's attire (that really cool leather coat). Moore's attire and, dare I say, style was that of an older generation. Dalton's Bond was a modern fellow. GE seemed to do it more, I remember thinking, Wow, they've let Brosnan keep his longish hair, and he looks young (not as young as if he'd been able to do TLD).

Don't forget Rog's cool leather jacket in A View to a Kill.

I like to think of AVTAK as the end of an era. Not only for Roger Moore and Lois Maxwell, but also the last of the "old school" classic Bonds. Up to that point it was basically Sean and Roger who carried the entire series.

Living Daylights marked a more modern Bond. Even the music and poster art was noticeably different. Unfortunately 1989 marked the end of another era, although an unintentional one. Curse that 6 year gap!

Circa 2004 I considered the Brosnan films very modern and not as "cool" as the vintage Bonds. However, I now I consider Brosnan-era to be classic as well.

DieAnotherDay

LTK in my view, end of Dalton, end of John Glen and basically the end of Bond for a long time and even though Goldeneye has a very 'classic Bond' feel to it there is no hiding the fact that this was the beginning of an all new Bond in a very modern world. I am glad for this 6year hiatus though because I loved the four Brosnan films that came about because of it and even though they aren't part of the classic Bond era, I feel those 4 films are part of a special over-the-top era themselves

superado

I think it was the long break after LTK that made GE seem like a reboot, but that movie and Brosnan's other 3 pretty much were made in the same mold as the larger-than-life, EON formula "classics" (e.g., YOLT, TSWLM). CR was the true, extensive reboot, and although SF was an attempt to get back some of the classic elements, I really can't see how a true, full return to a "classic Bond" happening, unless 1 or 2 new Bond actors later there's a clever way to reinterpret the classic formula with some novel elements to truly say, "this was a classic." It can be argued that GE was that. It can also be argued and observed that despite the attempts in SF to recapture those elements, it didn't really work and it won't work while the CR template (and hence, while DC is still Bond) is still in current use. ...of course, these hypothetical projections are entirely dependent on the assumption that the EON series is still going on at that time. )

Important questions to ask; how important is it to retain the classic Bond roots? Would not doing so also be okay, as a natural course of development? I for one do not demand it since we will always have the body of Bond films to appreciate at any time and the always changing social, political and economic contexts will not always be conducive to the classic elements as shown by Bond's diminishing social relevance up to right before CR.

chrisisall

superado wrote:

I think it was the long break after LTK that made GE seem like a reboot, but that movie and Brosnan's other 3 pretty much were made in the same mold as the larger-than-life, EON formula "classics" (e.g., YOLT, TSWLM).

The fact that Felix didn't return in the Brosnan films leads me to believe that they were a follow up to Dalton's in a way, though falling back on the (larger-than) larger-than-life villain domination plots (plus a near-universally unwanted throwback to MR in DAD). But in my mind (and I know this is just me), TWINE takes place before TND, Bond ends up with Lin, and DAD does not exist. Next: the true reboot.

CR was the true, extensive reboot, and although SF was an attempt to get back some of the classic elements, I really can't see how a true, full return to a "classic Bond" happening, unless 1 or 2 new Bond actors later there's a clever way to reinterpret the classic formula with some novel elements to truly say, "this was a classic." It can be argued that GE was that. It can also be argued and observed that despite the attempts in SF to recapture those elements, it didn't really work and it won't work while the CR template (and hence, while DC is still Bond) is still in current use.

Good calls IMO; Daniel's Bond & movies are a new quantum in Bond lore, Fleming based yet Bourne influenced. The 'classic' Bond was so last century 8-)

Important questions to ask; how important is it to retain the classic Bond roots? Would not doing so also be okay, as a natural course of development? I for one do not demand it since we will always have the body of Bond films to appreciate at any time and the always changing social, political and economic contexts will not always be conducive to the classic elements as shown by Bond's diminishing social relevance up to right before CR.

Change is the essential process of all existence (Spock said that), and to keep Bond relevant, this is a must unless Bond films are to be produced as period pieces set in the 20th.
However, the core of his character (a man severely gifted in the demands of his chosen profession, albeit often unhappy with the results of his hard work ) must be maintained.

Firemass

great post Superado. Do you think we would have gotten a very similar Goldeneye film if Dalton-era had been allowed to run its course up to 1994 ?

superado

First, a thank you to Chrisisall for the dialogue.

Firemass wrote:

great post Superado. Do you think we would have gotten a very similar Goldeneye film if Dalton-era had been allowed to run its course up to 1994 ?

Thank you, Firemass. That's a good "what if" regarding Dalton. I think Cubby was very stoked by his portrayal, considering that it was because he was such a fan of the books that inspired him to buy the film rights from Fleming in the first place. Alas, I think the legal troubles that caused a haitus up to 1995 was an opportunity for Both EON and Dalton to gracefully part ways, since the box office results were less than desired due to his inheritance of a Roger Moore audience. To steal a line from Don McClean's "Starry Starry Night," This world was never meant for one as beautiful as...Tim )

Hypothetically, however, had Dalton stayed in the role up to GE, I think that movie would have been dramatically different, judging from the latitude afforded to him from TLD to LTK. I remember an interview with PB right before GE was released and he said his Bond was going to be "flinty," which I guess means hard edged or sparky Nonetheless, I think in some measure PB wanted to deliver a sincere and unique contribution to the character but what I think happened, was that under pressure to deliver the goods, he succumbed to doing a "greatest hits" rendition instead. I watched DAD again recently, which BTW, I enjoyed very much at the theater, but I couldn't help but notice how less motivated he was than in GE and TND and how weary he seemed, almost like Connery in YOLT.

Napoleon Plural

He said at the time that DAD was 'wall to wall' action which seemed odd in that TWINE was said to be a move away from that. I think he felt it was heading in the wrong direction, but didn't say it.

Firemass

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Last one was AVTAK for me, with special mention to the look of GE and also TWINE generally, which has a wit and smoothness of the better Moore films.

I somehow missed reading this post the first time around. Completely agree. Cheers Napoleon.

osris

James Suzuki wrote:

It ended in 89

Well said.