Elliot Carver Underrated?

DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
in The James Bond Films
When you see a list of the best Bond villains, the same old suspects are always on the list: Blofeld, Goldfinger, Scaramanga, Max Zorin and so on.....but I never seem to see Elliot Carver on the list which is strange because (even though his plan was mental) he was a truly evil villain as he wanted to start WW3 and killed his own henchman. Do many people not feel the same way or his he just pretty forgotten about?
....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.

Comments

  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    I found Carver to be a pretty unremarkable villain. I'm not sure if it's the way the character is written or the way Pryce plays him, but he comes across as weak and a bit silly.
    DieAnotherDay wrote:
    When you see a list of the best Bond villains, the same old suspects are always on the list: Blofeld, Goldfinger, Scaramanga, Max Zorin and so on.....but I never seem to see Elliot Carver on the list which is strange because (even though his plan was mental) he was a truly evil villain as he wanted to start WW3 and killed his own henchman. Do many people not feel the same way or his he just pretty forgotten about?
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
    Blackleiter wrote:
    I found Carver to be a pretty unremarkable villain. I'm not sure if it's the way the character is written or the way Pryce plays him, but he comes across as weak and a bit silly.
    DieAnotherDay wrote:
    When you see a list of the best Bond villains, the same old suspects are always on the list: Blofeld, Goldfinger, Scaramanga, Max Zorin and so on.....but I never seem to see Elliot Carver on the list which is strange because (even though his plan was mental) he was a truly evil villain as he wanted to start WW3 and killed his own henchman. Do many people not feel the same way or his he just pretty forgotten about?

    Get what you mean, He also doesn't ever test Bonds physical abilities at any point in the film (he leaves that to stamper and co.) but I like the early scenes in TND where Bond and Carver are talking about satellites and such at his party in Hamburg, I love Brosnan and Pryce's chemistry in this scene as a clear 'hero and villain' stand off and you also get the feeling that Carver already hates Bond and will try everything to get rid of him later on.
    ....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.
  • BlackleiterBlackleiter Washington, DCPosts: 5,615MI6 Agent
    I agree that some of the banter between Brosnan and Pryce is amusing.
    DieAnotherDay wrote:
    Blackleiter wrote:
    I found Carver to be a pretty unremarkable villain. I'm not sure if it's the way the character is written or the way Pryce plays him, but he comes across as weak and a bit silly.
    DieAnotherDay wrote:
    When you see a list of the best Bond villains, the same old suspects are always on the list: Blofeld, Goldfinger, Scaramanga, Max Zorin and so on.....but I never seem to see Elliot Carver on the list which is strange because (even though his plan was mental) he was a truly evil villain as he wanted to start WW3 and killed his own henchman. Do many people not feel the same way or his he just pretty forgotten about?

    Get what you mean, He also doesn't ever test Bonds physical abilities at any point in the film (he leaves that to stamper and co.) but I like the early scenes in TND where Bond and Carver are talking about satellites and such at his party in Hamburg, I love Brosnan and Pryce's chemistry in this scene as a clear 'hero and villain' stand off and you also get the feeling that Carver already hates Bond and will try everything to get rid of him later on.
    "Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    He suffered because that same year you had Christoff in The Truman Show, a media mogul who was very restrained and very sinister. Pryce just seemed some camp prancer, it was OTT really.

    Also, I found it hard to believe in his character because he's meant to be famous! But we've never heard of him in the real world, making it harder to suspend disbelief imo.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    He suffered because that same year you had Christoff in The Truman Show, a media mogul who was very restrained and very sinister. Pryce just seemed some camp prancer, it was OTT really.

    Also, I found it hard to believe in his character because he's meant to be famous! But we've never heard of him in the real world, making it harder to suspend disbelief imo.

    That doesn't really affect his character too much in my view after all we are supposed to believe that Gustav Graves has been a Global Phenomenon for all of 14 months and no-one had looked into his past deep enough to see that he appeared from nowhere......but yeah, I know what you mean.
    ....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    edited January 2013
    Yes, I think he is rather underrated - they could have done much more with the character in TND but they just seemed to throw it all away, really. I'm writing a piece on Carver and TND that will appeaer on The Bondologist Blog in time!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Yes, I think he is rather underrated - they could have done much more with the character in TND but they just seemed to throw it all away, really. I'm writing a pievce on Carver and TND that will appeaer on The Bondologist Blog in time!

    Agreed. He just gave orders and tried to make a mockery of bond throughout the whole film....could of been given far more to do.
    ....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    DieAnotherDay wrote:
    Silhouette Man wrote:
    Yes, I think he is rather underrated - they could have done much more with the character in TND but they just seemed to throw it all away, really. I'm writing a pievce on Carver and TND that will appeaer on The Bondologist Blog in time!

    Agreed. He just gave orders and tried to make a mockery of bond throughout the whole film....could of been given far more to do.

    You should have a read of Raymond Benson's novelisation of TSWLM - it fills in a lot of the missing detail regarding Elliot Carver!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Underutilised? He and Stromberg should get together, organise a few events to keep them proactive! :D
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    Underutilised? He and Stromberg should get together, organise a few events to keep them proactive! :D

    Yes, I intend an article on TSWLM and Stromberg too, but you already knew that, I guess, Mr Plural!?
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    Stop scratching your ear, Silhouette Man. And you look tired, you should get some rest.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    Stop scratching your ear, Silhouette Man. And you look tired, you should get some rest.

    confused.com?

    Are you referring to my insanely long TSWLM piece, by any chance?!
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    No, it's the idea that I can anticipate your next move...

    www.jokesexplained.com

    Send it to me for editing if you like, it's my trade. :)
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    I wouldnt say hes underrated but hes one of my fav Bond villians and also one of the most realistic (plot to start WWIII aside) and relevant because the media has such a powerful presence in today's world even more so then 1997.
    @deanwdunlevy
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    walther p99 wrote:
    I wouldnt say hes underrated but hes one of my fav Bond villians and also one of the most realistic (plot to start WWIII aside) and relevant because the media has such a powerful presence in today's world even more so then 1997.
    What I was about to say, you already have, thanks.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    edited January 2013
    Napoleon Plural wrote:
    No, it's the idea that I can anticipate your next move...

    www.jokesexplained.com

    Send it to me for editing if you like, it's my trade. :)

    After Martin Amis referred to my "verbiage" on the Drax's Gambit piece, I might just take you up on that. My prose can be rather flowery sometimes.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,320MI6 Agent
    He was ok ,but nothing special in my opinion
    Instagram - bondclothes007
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I liked him as a Villain, a sleazy Media type. He'd happily
    tap someone's Phone. :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    I liked him as a Villain, a sleazy Media type. He'd happily
    tap someone's Phone. :D
    Or make an appointment with the Dr. for you.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,467MI6 Agent
    On those deleted scenes, they have a wordy back story for him that got cut.

    Thought it would have been nice to have a flashback to his younger, treacherous days, with Angus Deyton playing the younger Carver. :)
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Thunderpussy wrote:
    I liked him as a Villain, a sleazy Media type. He'd happily
    tap someone's Phone. :D
    Or make an appointment with the Dr. for you.

    I thought that whole bit was well acted by Pryce. The look on his when Gupta plays the video and the quick eerie scene of the camera panning round him....you can just tell he is pure evil :p
    ....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.
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