To what extent should one empathise with a serial shagger/killer who cannot hold down a long-term relationship, has no mates and feels the need to be insubordinate to every other bloke he meets?
Would James Bond himself feel the need to worship or be interested in a hero like James Bond? Unlikely.
It really depends. I don't want to be Richard Burton in The Wild Geese, not really, but I admire his character. Other heroes, you can fall for it hook line and sinker, or lock stock and barrel - but latterly, you think, well should I have?
I think that is the difference at this point of the Bond series and the fan population compared to the franchise's heydey, when every woman wanted to sleep with Bond and every man wanted to be him, me included...even during the Moore era (since it was him that was current and of course Connery to look back to). As much as I liked Dalton, my appreciation was more out of the characterization but admittedly the same desire to "be Bond" wasn't the same and by the time of Brosnan up to now, it was just admiring the character...though looking at the AJB memorabilia forum you can tell that several of us who are more diehard fans live to own the replicas of Daniel Craig underwear, bedroom slippers or screen used toilet paper dispensers.
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
As Nap says, Craig is trying to be a different kind of Bond, and I think that accounts for the absence of the suave, swaggering Bond we've seen the other actors display.
Different does not always equal better. New Coke was different, too.
But I submit that Craig has shown flashes of that aspect of Bond, although to a much lesser extent. Some of his banter with Vesper falls into that category (I love the way he says "You noticed" when she commented on his ass), and I think he had some similar moments with Eve in Skyfall as well. It was pretty much absent in QOS, but Skyfall left me feeling that we will be seeing more of that aspect of Craig's Bond in the future.
For the record, I agree with you BL. (This is getting to be a habit! ) ) CR was, IMO, Craig's best attempt. But, I feel that, after watching CR several times now, much of the witticism of the scene with Vesper you describe was script and Eva Green carrying it. Maybe I'm wrong and he's the great actor you believe. I really do hope so. I couldn't stop asking what this beautiful woman is doing sitting here with a man who looks like Alfred E. Neumann (MAD magazine kid)! My answer BTW, was "Oh yeah, Orders" I want to get back to enjoying Bond movies in the theater. For that to happen tho, it's going to take a drastic change. Cause for two movies now, you can tell He's going for threatening or menacing, but it's coming off petulantly angry. All the time.
We'll see, but the bottom line is that I believe Craig is more than capable of handling such moments if the script calls for it.
Again, I hope you are right, But my hope is dwindling. The script has called for it. I haven't seen it. I've seen Craig drop other scenes in other movies, too. Golden Compass was like watching Bond meets LOTR, and Layer Cake was exactly the same characterization, too. I'm sorry, man, but he's been just bad, so far. But I am glad that you are enjoying him. After all, someone has too.
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
That's really the key, isn't it? Bond with Connery was a Phenomenon, it was huge. With Craig, it feels like just another action movie.
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
Not sure I get this... You want to observe children's consumer behaviour to see how adults might feel. Yet, the box office results are already showing how adults feel about this: they love it...
It's odd, Jason Stratham has a new film out. Now he doesn't have much range does he. And I'm not saying he should be Bond. But, I dig his thing. It works. He's terse, but he's like an upbeat Craig. Guess he's the Caine to Craig's Connery or something. Nah, that doesn't work.
Sure different doesn't equal better. But, you can't have the same old same old, same with the pop charts, it has to evolve or you feel you're living in yesterday.
Hey RogueAgent007 are you sure you're not a bit narcissitic? {:) If you set a lot of store on looks, then Craig will be found wanting, it's meant to be his essence of self that connects, or is meant to. Like some go for Errol Flynn, others for Bogart.
Like many Bond films, there is a point in the film that things get silly. Yes, in Skyfall, it is the Home Alone aspect and destruction of Bond's ancestral home.
I feel being a Bond fan doesn't mean that you have to feel the latest offering is the greatest thing in the world. Although I enjoyed Skyfall, it has it's faults and I take it for what it is... the best Bond film since Quantum of Solace! I do appreciate elements of the literary versions of YOLT and TMWTGG are included. I re-read TMWTGG over the last 2 evenings (have not read it in YEARS) and was surprised how much was lifted from the book. The Home Alone bit wasn't in the book, though.
Was it lame? No, I don't think so. But I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and say it was the greatest Bond film ever, either. Every new Bond film is reviewed and marketed as the best one ever, just as every new actor to play 007 is the best Bond since Connery. I try not to buy into all the hype.
I DO like the very end, with things kind of "reset" within MI6 to look very 1960's.
Yes, my friend, I am indeed enjoying Craig's Bond. And fortunately I am hardly alone in that regard. But I understand he's not doing it for you. I still feel you are underrating Craig as an actor, but I see now that you are unimpressed with his acting in general, not just in the Bond films. That leads me to doubt your opinion of him will ever change. And if his looks really bother you as much as you say, then that's definitely not going to change because he certainly isn't going to get any better looking! ) But that's cool - after all, we can't agree on EVERYTHING!
As Nap says, Craig is trying to be a different kind of Bond, and I think that accounts for the absence of the suave, swaggering Bond we've seen the other actors display.
Different does not always equal better. New Coke was different, too.
But I submit that Craig has shown flashes of that aspect of Bond, although to a much lesser extent. Some of his banter with Vesper falls into that category (I love the way he says "You noticed" when she commented on his ass), and I think he had some similar moments with Eve in Skyfall as well. It was pretty much absent in QOS, but Skyfall left me feeling that we will be seeing more of that aspect of Craig's Bond in the future.
For the record, I agree with you BL. (This is getting to be a habit! ) ) CR was, IMO, Craig's best attempt. But, I feel that, after watching CR several times now, much of the witticism of the scene with Vesper you describe was script and Eva Green carrying it. Maybe I'm wrong and he's the great actor you believe. I really do hope so. I couldn't stop asking what this beautiful woman is doing sitting here with a man who looks like Alfred E. Neumann (MAD magazine kid)! My answer BTW, was "Oh yeah, Orders" I want to get back to enjoying Bond movies in the theater. For that to happen tho, it's going to take a drastic change. Cause for two movies now, you can tell He's going for threatening or menacing, but it's coming off petulantly angry. All the time.
We'll see, but the bottom line is that I believe Craig is more than capable of handling such moments if the script calls for it.
Again, I hope you are right, But my hope is dwindling. The script has called for it. I haven't seen it. I've seen Craig drop other scenes in other movies, too. Golden Compass was like watching Bond meets LOTR, and Layer Cake was exactly the same characterization, too. I'm sorry, man, but he's been just bad, so far. But I am glad that you are enjoying him. After all, someone has too.
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
That's really the key, isn't it? Bond with Connery was a Phenomenon, it was huge. With Craig, it feels like just another action movie.
"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
Not sure I get this... You want to observe children's consumer behaviour to see how adults might feel. Yet, the box office results are already showing how adults feel about this: they love it...
I was trying to use the analogy to make it easier to understand, but I’ll dumb it up some more for you. The most ardent fans of SF enjoy highlighting box office results and the opinions of female acquaintances to “prove” not only how successful SF has become, but how it has, hands-down totally, decidedly and with authority eclipsed the entire Bond series, hence my analogy and comparisons with the height of Bondmania in the Connery era.
Really think this thread needs to die... i think (along with the majority of the world) that the film is brilliant ..
…see what I mean? Kill the thread because someone doesn't agree that SF is the greatest thing to happen to humanity since the invention of toilet paper? What was that expression about "huggers" someone else used here? Here's another fan who cannot comprehend that his glowing assessment for SF isn’t entirely unanimous. Get a grip fellas…and I say "fellas" because it seems the lady fans have been realistically moderate and not as gushing about their appreciation for SF.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
One thing that confuses me. So Bond is shot in the shoulder while in the JCB. He is then apparently shot again by moneypenny and falls to his apparent death. So where was he shot when he falls, where was he wounded. I have been puzzled by this since watching the movie
One thing that confuses me. So Bond is shot in the shoulder while in the JCB. He is then apparently shot again by moneypenny and falls to his apparent death. So where was he shot when he falls, where was he wounded. I have been puzzled by this since watching the movie
Splinters of Patrice's bullet hit Bond in the chest - those are the fragments he digs out of his shoulder with a knife and gives to MI6 to analyse.
Moneypenny's bullet hits him in the shoulder - again you can see the long scar when he's looking in the mirror in Turkey, while he's 'enjoying death'.
Moneypenny's bullet hits him in the shoulder - again you can see the long scar when he's looking in the mirror in Turkey, while he's 'enjoying death'.
(Eve) Moneypenny's bullet hit Bond in the ribs. He mentions it to her when they meet up again at the new MI6. Words to the effect, "Just the ribs, no vital organs".
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
I agree with you Moore Than, In the shaving scene when Bond has his Back
to Camera. You can see a small scar on his Lower Back.
I'm sure Lexi could point out all the markings, scars and Moles on DC body. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Moneypenny's bullet hits him in the shoulder - again you can see the long scar when he's looking in the mirror in Turkey, while he's 'enjoying death'.
(Eve) Moneypenny's bullet hit Bond in the ribs. He mentions it to her when they meet up again at the new MI6. Words to the effect, "Just the ribs, no vital organs".
I really wanted to like this movie - Unfortunately...It just didn't happen for me. After watching it, I consider it one of the worst Bond movies. Casino Royale is Craig's best Bond film - However, I still think he sucks as a Bond. It seems with the success of the Batman movies (Nolan) - many movies try to head in that same direction - serious and dark. It seems like all the fun has been taken out of the Bond movies since Craig came aboard. The whole idea of Bond is larger than life - fast cars, high life, sophistication, women...etc - all men want to be Bond. The Craig era movies just don't have the fun and excitement. One thing about the Bond movies that I enjoy is that I can watch them over and over and never get sick of them. They are true classics in my eyes and always a joy...that is....until Craig took over the role. His movies just arent that interesting and fun....they are the only movies in the collection that don't get re-played. I hope we get some new direction in the upcoming films.
I´d put Skyfall somewhere between the excellent CR and disappointing QoS. Skyfall just lacks great memorable moments such as Moore skydiving with skis on, underwater Lotus, Goldfinger girl...
Skyfall is still better than the Brosnan films though -{
I can't seem to warm up to this one. I was a bit disappointed after the first viewing, a bit more after the second and now that I have seen it on DVD I think it falls somewhere in the middle tier in my top 23. It is a beautifully made film, great acting by the main actors and some very cool scenes. However, to me this film feels like less than a sum of its parts for some reason.
All we have left are clichés and what appears to be a dying series.
If you mean the fact that Skyfall was one of the biggest grossing films of the year last year, the biggest grossing Bond film of all time and got some of the best critics' reviews of any Bond film, then I guess it is indeed a 'dying series.'
It may have done all that fair enough but its a dumbed down version of Bond to try and grab wider audiences. It has forgotten its roots and what Bond is all about just so it can make $$$. Its a totally new Bond. A dumbed down, diluted version that probably makes Sean Connery embarrassed to be part off
All we have left are clichés and what appears to be a dying series.
If you mean the fact that Skyfall was one of the biggest grossing films of the year last year, the biggest grossing Bond film of all time and got some of the best critics' reviews of any Bond film, then I guess it is indeed a 'dying series.'
It may have done all that fair enough but its a dumbed down version of Bond to try and grab wider audiences. It has forgotten its roots and what Bond is all about just so it can make $$$. Its a totally new Bond. A dumbed down, diluted version that probably makes Sean Connery embarrassed to be part off
Not that I agree, but I am sure quite a few (notably those that regard themselves as Fleming purists) would argue that we've been served a dumbed down, diluted version of Bond since You Only Live Twice, with a few exceptions.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
If you mean the fact that Skyfall was one of the biggest grossing films of the year last year, the biggest grossing Bond film of all time and got some of the best critics' reviews of any Bond film, then I guess it is indeed a 'dying series.'
It may have done all that fair enough but its a dumbed down version of Bond to try and grab wider audiences. It has forgotten its roots and what Bond is all about just so it can make $$$. Its a totally new Bond. A dumbed down, diluted version that probably makes Sean Connery embarrassed to be part off
Not that I agree, but I am sure quite a few (notably those that regard themselves as Fleming purists) would argue that we've been served a dumbed down, diluted version of Bond since You Only Live Twice, with a few exceptions.
Actually I think this bond is much more human and gritty obviously when Fleming wrote his books the world was a different place
and the likes of the smarmy dapper gent no longer fits in our societies today. I think alot of the earlier bond films had a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor bordering on the carry on films. Yes Skyfall was flawed with plot holes but Craig as a 21st century bond works for me and the styling was excellent
I agree, and I think the notion that Skyfall is somehow "dumbed down" is nonsense. Different doesn't mean "dumbed down", but apparently some folks have an issue with change. That's their perogative, of course, but I think they are largely missing the point.
It may have done all that fair enough but its a dumbed down version of Bond to try and grab wider audiences. It has forgotten its roots and what Bond is all about just so it can make $$$. Its a totally new Bond. A dumbed down, diluted version that probably makes Sean Connery embarrassed to be part off
Not that I agree, but I am sure quite a few (notably those that regard themselves as Fleming purists) would argue that we've been served a dumbed down, diluted version of Bond since You Only Live Twice, with a few exceptions.
Actually I think this bond is much more human and gritty obviously when Fleming wrote his books the world was a different place
and the likes of the smarmy dapper gent no longer fits in our societies today. I think alot of the earlier bond films had a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor bordering on the carry on films. Yes Skyfall was flawed with plot holes but Craig as a 21st century bond works for me and the styling was excellent
The top 7 Bond films: 1) Dr No. 2) From Russia With Love. 3) Thunderball. 4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service. 5) For Your Eyes Only. 6) The Living Daylights. 7) Licence to Kill.
Maybe Bond has one of those new-fangled gadgets in his car called a garage door opener (also works to close the door). Or maybe there's an electric eye that sensed the car as it left and closed the door automatically. Or maybe there a sensor in the floor that did the same thing.
OTOH, it would've been entertaining watching Bond tell M to get off her fat arse and close the garage door.
Mabey that's why she complained the DB5 was Uncomfortable.
She was sitting on Bond's garage door opener all the time.
and Bond was too polite to ask her to Move her Arse.
Mystery Solved. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
"SKYFALL" turned out to be a major disappointment for me. I had expected this movie to be really something. Instead . . . dear God.
One, the screenplay is awful and full of plot holes. Javier Bardeem chewed the scenery just a bit too much. The female characters - including M - get short shifted. M was portrayed as an incompetent boob, who managed to be the only who figured out that her enemy was a former MI6 agent. Poor Severine's appearance was a waste of time and an embarrassment. And the screenplay's handling of Eve Moneypenny really annoyed me to no end. And how in the hell did a MI6 field agent end up with a list of NATO agents on his laptop hard drive?
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
And how in the hell did a MI6 field agent end up with a list of NATO agents on his laptop hard drive?
The agent had just stolen the "NOC list" from a high-security CIA computer room in Langley, Virginia.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
"SKYFALL" turned out to be a major disappointment for me. I had expected this movie to be really something. Instead . . . dear God.
One, the screenplay is awful and full of plot holes. Javier Bardeem chewed the scenery just a bit too much. The female characters - including M - get short shifted. M was portrayed as an incompetent boob, who managed to be the only who figured out that her enemy was a former MI6 agent. Poor Severine's appearance was a waste of time and an embarrassment. And the screenplay's handling of Eve Moneypenny really annoyed me to no end. And how in the hell did a MI6 field agent end up with a list of NATO agents on his laptop hard drive?
Comments
I think that is the difference at this point of the Bond series and the fan population compared to the franchise's heydey, when every woman wanted to sleep with Bond and every man wanted to be him, me included...even during the Moore era (since it was him that was current and of course Connery to look back to). As much as I liked Dalton, my appreciation was more out of the characterization but admittedly the same desire to "be Bond" wasn't the same and by the time of Brosnan up to now, it was just admiring the character...though looking at the AJB memorabilia forum you can tell that several of us who are more diehard fans live to own the replicas of Daniel Craig underwear, bedroom slippers or screen used toilet paper dispensers.
If kids during the 60's wanted to be Sean Connery's Bond, are kids today wanting to be like Daniel Craig's Bond? No matter how much money DC's installments are making, I think observing children's consumer behavior can tell us much more, because whatever is cranking up the joy for them is surely doing the same thing for adults, albeit in secret.
For the record, I agree with you BL. (This is getting to be a habit!
Again, I hope you are right, But my hope is dwindling. The script has called for it. I haven't seen it. I've seen Craig drop other scenes in other movies, too. Golden Compass was like watching Bond meets LOTR, and Layer Cake was exactly the same characterization, too. I'm sorry, man, but he's been just bad, so far. But I am glad that you are enjoying him. After all, someone has too.
That's really the key, isn't it? Bond with Connery was a Phenomenon, it was huge. With Craig, it feels like just another action movie.
Not sure I get this... You want to observe children's consumer behaviour to see how adults might feel. Yet, the box office results are already showing how adults feel about this: they love it...
It's odd, Jason Stratham has a new film out. Now he doesn't have much range does he. And I'm not saying he should be Bond. But, I dig his thing. It works. He's terse, but he's like an upbeat Craig. Guess he's the Caine to Craig's Connery or something. Nah, that doesn't work.
Sure different doesn't equal better. But, you can't have the same old same old, same with the pop charts, it has to evolve or you feel you're living in yesterday.
Hey RogueAgent007 are you sure you're not a bit narcissitic? {:) If you set a lot of store on looks, then Craig will be found wanting, it's meant to be his essence of self that connects, or is meant to. Like some go for Errol Flynn, others for Bogart.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Bond: Get your hands off her! (to Silva, regarding M)
Jeez, half expected him to add 'You goddam dirty ape!'
But perhaps that's the writers knowing nod to Bond's rebirth at the end of the film. Or something.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I feel being a Bond fan doesn't mean that you have to feel the latest offering is the greatest thing in the world. Although I enjoyed Skyfall, it has it's faults and I take it for what it is... the best Bond film since Quantum of Solace! I do appreciate elements of the literary versions of YOLT and TMWTGG are included. I re-read TMWTGG over the last 2 evenings (have not read it in YEARS) and was surprised how much was lifted from the book. The Home Alone bit wasn't in the book, though.
Was it lame? No, I don't think so. But I'm not going to jump on the band wagon and say it was the greatest Bond film ever, either. Every new Bond film is reviewed and marketed as the best one ever, just as every new actor to play 007 is the best Bond since Connery. I try not to buy into all the hype.
I DO like the very end, with things kind of "reset" within MI6 to look very 1960's.
I was trying to use the analogy to make it easier to understand, but I’ll dumb it up some more for you.
…see what I mean? Kill the thread because someone doesn't agree that SF is the greatest thing to happen to humanity since the invention of toilet paper? What was that expression about "huggers" someone else used here? Here's another fan who cannot comprehend that his glowing assessment for SF isn’t entirely unanimous. Get a grip fellas…and I say "fellas" because it seems the lady fans have been realistically moderate and not as gushing about their appreciation for SF.
Splinters of Patrice's bullet hit Bond in the chest - those are the fragments he digs out of his shoulder with a knife and gives to MI6 to analyse.
Moneypenny's bullet hits him in the shoulder - again you can see the long scar when he's looking in the mirror in Turkey, while he's 'enjoying death'.
(Eve) Moneypenny's bullet hit Bond in the ribs. He mentions it to her when they meet up again at the new MI6. Words to the effect, "Just the ribs, no vital organs".
to Camera. You can see a small scar on his Lower Back.
I'm sure Lexi could point out all the markings, scars and Moles on DC body.
I stand corrected 8-)
Skyfall is still better than the Brosnan films though -{
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_540_29-famous-movie-scenes-with-glaring-mistakes_p29/#26
Roger Moore 1927-2017
It may have done all that fair enough but its a dumbed down version of Bond to try and grab wider audiences. It has forgotten its roots and what Bond is all about just so it can make $$$. Its a totally new Bond. A dumbed down, diluted version that probably makes Sean Connery embarrassed to be part off
Not that I agree, but I am sure quite a few (notably those that regard themselves as Fleming purists) would argue that we've been served a dumbed down, diluted version of Bond since You Only Live Twice, with a few exceptions.
Actually I think this bond is much more human and gritty obviously when Fleming wrote his books the world was a different place
and the likes of the smarmy dapper gent no longer fits in our societies today. I think alot of the earlier bond films had a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor bordering on the carry on films. Yes Skyfall was flawed with plot holes but Craig as a 21st century bond works for me and the styling was excellent
Maybe Bond has one of those new-fangled gadgets in his car called a garage door opener (also works to close the door). Or maybe there's an electric eye that sensed the car as it left and closed the door automatically. Or maybe there a sensor in the floor that did the same thing.
OTOH, it would've been entertaining watching Bond tell M to get off her fat arse and close the garage door.
She was sitting on Bond's garage door opener all the time.
and Bond was too polite to ask her to Move her Arse.
Mystery Solved.
One, the screenplay is awful and full of plot holes. Javier Bardeem chewed the scenery just a bit too much. The female characters - including M - get short shifted. M was portrayed as an incompetent boob, who managed to be the only who figured out that her enemy was a former MI6 agent. Poor Severine's appearance was a waste of time and an embarrassment. And the screenplay's handling of Eve Moneypenny really annoyed me to no end. And how in the hell did a MI6 field agent end up with a list of NATO agents on his laptop hard drive?
The agent had just stolen the "NOC list" from a high-security CIA computer room in Langley, Virginia.