As an Englishman , and lifelong Bond fan , I hate to admit that I'd rather watch one of the "Bourne" films . .Skyfall had beautiful cinematography, but it didn't feel "exotic" . . . And without that, you don't have a decent Bond film.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
For some people, it was as if Daniel Craig did nothing short of parting the Red Sea in SF! With all due respect to you, SM, I can't comprehend how SF could beat out so many fine Bond entries for it to be at anyone's #2 (if it were still April 1st, I would have read something different into what "#2" meant and it would have made sense! ) )
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Although Skyfall isn't as high up on my list as Number 2, I have seen what I consider to be far worst Bond films listed that high, so anything is possible!
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
For some people, it was as if Daniel Craig did nothing short of parting the Red Sea in SF! With all due respect to you, SM, I can't comprehend how SF could beat out so many fine Bond entries for it to be at anyone's #2 (if it were still April 1st, I would have read something different into what "#2" meant and it would have made sense! ) )
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
I just got sick of the "getting old" lines and Bond not really acting like Bond. We went from conflicted to angst ridden and rather empty shelled husk of a man... while watching, it never really felt like I was watching Bond.
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
Spot on!
It's number two on my list and i was wondering why people started to dislike it.
I wrote a review on it for IMDb and my title was "Bond is no Shawshank..."
People were expecting too much from this movie, that's the mistake I made with the movie Avatar. If you hype up any Movie it will disapoint you.
But luckily I walked in with my expectations touched and lifted.
So Stop Moaning!
Nah, just kidding, keep going
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
I just got sick of the "getting old" lines and Bond not really acting like Bond. We went from conflicted to angst ridden and rather empty shelled husk of a man... while watching, it never really felt like I was watching Bond.
Read Raymond Benson's Doubleshot (2000) to see a James Bond not quite himself - this may well have been a partial inspiration for the down-at-heel James Bond that we see in Skyfall.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
I think maybe the problem was that people were expecting far too much from Skyfall. It's Daniel Craig, not Moses splitting the seas, for heaven's sake. I thought it was a really good Bond film after a long gap in Bond films since 2008 - I for one was glad to see the return of Craig Bond as well as it being one of the best ever James Bond films - it's at number 2 on my personal list.
Spot on!
It's number two on my list and i was wondering why people started to dislike it.
I wrote a review on it for IMDb and my title was "Bond is no Shawshank..."
People were expecting too much from this movie, that's the mistake I made with the movie Avatar. If you hype up any Movie it will disapoint you.
But luckily I walked in with my expectations touched and lifted.
So Stop Moaning!
Nah, just kidding, keep going
Yes, well unlike probably the majority of fans on here and elsewhere, I avoided all discussion of the film and its spoilers, so it all felt fresh and great to me. Now I did in fact say that. It remains true.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
unlike probably the majority of fans on here and elsewhere, I avoided all discussion of the film and its spoilers, so it all felt fresh and great to me.
Same here; and I'm going to do the same for the next one, once speculation stops and pre-production begins. I learned that lesson on earlier Bonds...
I understand where many are coming from comparing Skyfall to the other films in the series and to Bond's literary roots. However - this is just my personal take - there were a few occasions when I went with people to Bond films and they were either totally ignorant of Fleming and his novels or they had seen some of the films but were not fans and viewed them as just as escapist action films with JB as the hero. During the films while they laughed at many of the over the top action scenes or at some of the weak quips thrown out I would sit in my seat and cringe a bit at their reactions. I really hated feeling that. I would hate it even more when I was cringing at many of those types of scenes myself. Craig's films are the first ones that I attended where I didn't do that in any part of the film (outside the films up to YOLT). They were the first ones where those friends of mine
also did not react in that way. Skyfall, thought not being a Fleming story, was one of those where I knew that - after I left the movie, I did not engage in conversations regarding the "silliness" of certain scenes or the movie as a whole. My non Fleming/Bond friends praised Craig and the films - particularly Skyfall, for raising the quality of the characters and the story so they actually cared about what was going on in the film as opposed to being like popcorn eating spectators at a circus.
For what it's worth, I had the same experience with a number of my friends who are not necessarily Bond fans per se. They all enjoyed Skyfall as a film unrelated to how it fit in with the Bond novels or with other Bond movies.
I understand where many are coming from comparing Skyfall to the other films in the series and to Bond's literary roots. However - this is just my personal take - there were a few occasions when I went with people to Bond films and they were either totally ignorant of Fleming and his novels or they had seen some of the films but were not fans and viewed them as just as escapist action films with JB as the hero. During the films while they laughed at many of the over the top action scenes or at some of the weak quips thrown out I would sit in my seat and cringe a bit at their reactions. I really hated feeling that. I would hate it even more when I was cringing at many of those types of scenes myself. Craig's films are the first ones that I attended where I didn't do that in any part of the film (outside the films up to YOLT). They were the first ones where those friends of mine
also did not react in that way. Skyfall, thought not being a Fleming story, was one of those where I knew that - after I left the movie, I did not engage in conversations regarding the "silliness" of certain scenes or the movie as a whole. My non Fleming/Bond friends praised Craig and the films - particularly Skyfall, for raising the quality of the characters and the story so they actually cared about what was going on in the film as opposed to being like popcorn eating spectators at a circus.
It irks me that they rebooted the films & kept Dench to kill her off. She should have joined Brosnan.
Agreed, They should of made a clean Break, and ( Much as I loved her as M -{ ) she should've
left with Brosnan.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
I think that the reason the producers stayed with Dame Judi Dench was because she was the only familiar face left from the Brosnan era now that Q, Moneypenny and the old Tanner were all gone. Perhaps they were scared of a wholly new team - something not actually seen in a Bond film until trhe likes of Skyfall.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.
Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.
Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."
But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.
Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."
But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"
The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.
But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.
I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
Supported here. Dench SHOULD have been asked to leave with Brosnan.
Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."
But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"
The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.
But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.
I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.
I had a feeling you'd answer with Fiennes, David. )
Perhaps you are right on Dench - it did tend to muck up the continuity a bit with her from the Brosnan era and no-one else (actor-wise, at least). Probably especially so in Skyfall.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"
The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.
But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.
I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.
I had a feeling you'd answer with Fiennes, David. )
Perhaps you are right on Dench - it did tend to muck up the continuity a bit with her from the Brosnan era and no-one else (actor-wise, at least). Probably especially so in Skyfall.
Well, if someone can prove to me why it was essential Dench was carrried over from the Brosnan era - particularly when it was a reboot and she was hardly a superstar - then I might reconsider. Just as I will never see the unnecesary inclusion of the DB5 as anything other than "dumb" filmaking.
Continuity has never been much of an issue with me regarding the Bond series so the fact that Craig has gone from an arrogant "young" newby to a knackered veteran in three films, while ludicrous, is an entirely different issue; shotgun filmaking by the producers, perhaps?
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!
On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57. ;%
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!
On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57. ;%
Fleming's Bond, though, had had his adventures in any four year period DOCUMENTED; we know why he burned out, particularly with the events of OHMSS-YOLT.
Craig has gone from looking absolutely fabulous at the end of QOS, with emotional lose-ends tied up, to taking the opportunity having fallen of a bridge to go AWOL. Why? What has happened in the period since QOS to make him need to do that?
I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...
As I said, "shotgun" filmmaking. "Hey, Sam, there are ideas in YOLT and TMWTGG that haven't been used!" "Wow, Dan. You're right! Let's expore them! Obviously as this is big buget film, we've no reason to give any background or context! The multi-plex crowd just won't notice!"
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,844MI6 Agent
Yes, it's all very confusing from a continuity point of view - though probably best not to venture there!
On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57. ;%
Fleming's Bond, though, had had his adventures in any four year period DOCUMENTED; we know why he burned out, particularly with the events of OHMSS-YOLT.
Craig has gone from looking absolutely fabulous at the end of QOS, with emotional lose-ends tied up, to taking the opportunity having fallen of a bridge to go AWOL. Why? What has happened in the period since QOS to make him need to do that?
I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...
As I said, "shotgun" filmmaking. "Hey, Sam, there are ideas in YOLT and TMWTGG that haven't been used!" "Wow, Dan. You're right! Let's expore them! Obviously as this is big buget film, we've no reason to give any background or context! The multi-plex crowd just won't notice!"
Yes, good points well made there, David. Perhaps Skyfall did indeed come a film too soon?
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Far from remaking LALD, with Craig looking all Burnt out. Mabey
they should remake AVTAK. )
David Schofield wrote :
I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Far from remaking LALD, with Craig looking all Burnt out. Mabey
they should remake AVTAK. )
David Schofield wrote :
I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...
Sadly, that's almost the corner EON has painted themselves into with the indulgence given to Craig and Mendes: we are almost now where we were with AVTAK and DAD.
What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."
What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."
I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.
Comments
For some people, it was as if Daniel Craig did nothing short of parting the Red Sea in SF! With all due respect to you, SM, I can't comprehend how SF could beat out so many fine Bond entries for it to be at anyone's #2 (if it were still April 1st, I would have read something different into what "#2" meant and it would have made sense!
I just got sick of the "getting old" lines and Bond not really acting like Bond. We went from conflicted to angst ridden and rather empty shelled husk of a man... while watching, it never really felt like I was watching Bond.
It's number two on my list and i was wondering why people started to dislike it.
I wrote a review on it for IMDb and my title was "Bond is no Shawshank..."
People were expecting too much from this movie, that's the mistake I made with the movie Avatar. If you hype up any Movie it will disapoint you.
But luckily I walked in with my expectations touched and lifted.
So Stop Moaning!
Nah, just kidding, keep going
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Read Raymond Benson's Doubleshot (2000) to see a James Bond not quite himself - this may well have been a partial inspiration for the down-at-heel James Bond that we see in Skyfall.
Yes, well unlike probably the majority of fans on here and elsewhere, I avoided all discussion of the film and its spoilers, so it all felt fresh and great to me. Now I did in fact say that. It remains true.
A horse, named Skyfall. So answer to OP, yes.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Now, that's a good one, Nap!
Same here; and I'm going to do the same for the next one, once speculation stops and pre-production begins. I learned that lesson on earlier Bonds...
I suspect that we already have, albeit unknowingly!
also did not react in that way. Skyfall, thought not being a Fleming story, was one of those where I knew that - after I left the movie, I did not engage in conversations regarding the "silliness" of certain scenes or the movie as a whole. My non Fleming/Bond friends praised Craig and the films - particularly Skyfall, for raising the quality of the characters and the story so they actually cared about what was going on in the film as opposed to being like popcorn eating spectators at a circus.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Roger Moore 1927-2017
chrisisall wrote :
Agreed, They should of made a clean Break, and ( Much as I loved her as M -{ ) she should've
left with Brosnan.
Must have been a bizarre meeting at EON planning CR. "Right, let's get really radical and reboot. We want a new, rough and tumble, credible Bond, sensitive, with subtle acting skills. Daniel Craig ticks all those boxes. But we need to chuck in a silver DB5 somewhere for the "fans" and we HAVE to keep Judy Dench...."
But then the question becomes, "Who would you have chosen to replace her as M?"
The glib answer is, of course, Ralph Fiennes.
But anyone who could have played a crusty retired Admiral, though obviously the long-run dynamic would have been the exact opposite of Dench-M. Albert Finney would have worked. Gambon? Any talented, Brit character actor who could have bullied Craig.
I do NOT, for one minute, buy into the bollocks that Dench's "star power" was essential to CR. CR was not remotely faultless, indeed was quite weak in places. But what the whole thing had that made it work was Daniel Craig, Dench merely A.N. Other cast member.
I had a feeling you'd answer with Fiennes, David.
Perhaps you are right on Dench - it did tend to muck up the continuity a bit with her from the Brosnan era and no-one else (actor-wise, at least). Probably especially so in Skyfall.
Well, if someone can prove to me why it was essential Dench was carrried over from the Brosnan era - particularly when it was a reboot and she was hardly a superstar - then I might reconsider. Just as I will never see the unnecesary inclusion of the DB5 as anything other than "dumb" filmaking.
Continuity has never been much of an issue with me regarding the Bond series so the fact that Craig has gone from an arrogant "young" newby to a knackered veteran in three films, while ludicrous, is an entirely different issue; shotgun filmaking by the producers, perhaps?
On Craig being knackered, well it has been FOUR YEARS between QoS and SF, perhaps they're trying to reflect the Flemingesque reality that Bond has aged in the interim and has only a few years left a la Fleming's original double-O section in the Moonraker novel. Craig is alreadyt 45 - the statutory vage for retirement from the double-O section, according to Fleming. Just don't mention that to Roger Moore who went on until he was almost 57. ;%
Fleming's Bond, though, had had his adventures in any four year period DOCUMENTED; we know why he burned out, particularly with the events of OHMSS-YOLT.
Craig has gone from looking absolutely fabulous at the end of QOS, with emotional lose-ends tied up, to taking the opportunity having fallen of a bridge to go AWOL. Why? What has happened in the period since QOS to make him need to do that?
I feel that in not showing the onset of the apparent weariness of SKYFALL, they have missed the necessary character developement that another film - at least - could have shown BEFORE the events of SF. And in whipping Craig straight to the worn out veteran stage so quick, where to EON go next? Is Craig-Bond "reborn" with his meeting with M(allory)? Cos he looks just as knackered to me...
As I said, "shotgun" filmmaking. "Hey, Sam, there are ideas in YOLT and TMWTGG that haven't been used!" "Wow, Dan. You're right! Let's expore them! Obviously as this is big buget film, we've no reason to give any background or context! The multi-plex crowd just won't notice!"
Yes, good points well made there, David. Perhaps Skyfall did indeed come a film too soon?
they should remake AVTAK.
David Schofield wrote :
Sadly, that's almost the corner EON has painted themselves into with the indulgence given to Craig and Mendes: we are almost now where we were with AVTAK and DAD.
What even seems to be needed is a brand new - fresher - face striding into Fiennes office in the next one. "Ah, there you are, 007."
I disagree - I still want to see Craig do at least one more turn as Bond. I'm especially anxious to see how he does in a more traditional Bond scenario , i.e. the supporting players are all in place (M,Q and Moneypenny), and he's taking on a mission without so much of a personal angle to it.