There's something about that The Man with the Golden Gun!

Silhouette Man

Do you feel as I do that, despite terrible press and reviews over the years since the release of The Man with the Golden Gun (1974) it still has something about it that is special - it is very different in style and themes from many of the James Bond films that either preceded it or indeed followed it. There are the elements of the serial killer plot strand - Bond sent the 'calling card' of the OO7 engraved golden bullet, the light-007 versus the dark-007, the topicality of the 'energy crisis' plot, the transformation of Scaramanga from thug in the novel to a darker version of James Bond, the Flemingesque dialogue in the M-Bond briefing scene, the boxing match scene, the Scaramanga-Bond speeches at the dinner table etc.

This is a very Flemingesque film, and I think it is Moore's best James Bond performance after that in FYEO. It's a much better film that the bloated LALD that preceded it and the stunt-laden TSWLM and MR that followed it. Yet, despite all of these great elements - the welcome focus on Bond's character (odd in a Moore-Bond film) there's very little love for this film in the James Bond fan community. Roger Moore was just the optimum age for Bond here - after this he began to look increasingly too old for the part of the suave and sophisticated secret agent 007.

It has some poor elements too - the way that (like in DAF) Bond's mission and the Scaramanga hunt are in fact linked is pretty hard to swallow, the end fight is poor - much of the good stuff involving Molotov cocktails etc. was left on the cutting-room floor and the scenes in Hai Fat's 'school' feel like padding, as does the canal chase on klongs. Sheriff J.W. Pepper was also a great mistake - just like Mrs Bell in LALD.

I'd really love to hear your views on this overlooked flawed gem of a film - perhaps ambergris rather than 24-carat gold?

AlphaOmegaSin

I would have liked to have a seen a Train shootout between Bond and Scaramanga, just like in the Novel.

davidelliott101

TMWTGG feels like a movie of the week production... Fleming's weakest novel and I think the weakest film of the series. Moore didn't settle into the role yet.

I do need to watch it again, though... it's been years!

James Suzuki

I hadn't seen it in years, but I watched it recently with a friend and I must say, I really enjoyed it! Nick Nack doesn't bother me, Moore still looks young and fit.and Scaramanga is perfectly played by Lee. Better then half of the Connerys

Jarvio

To say it's one of the 5 most hated bond films by the masses, it's not too bad. Nowhere near as good as AVTAK though

Blackleiter

Good idea for a Bond movie, but poorly executed. The funhouse stuff at the beginning and the end looks cheesy and unconvincing, the plot doesn't hold together well, Mary Goodight is another very annoying Bond Girl, one of the worst characters in the series, Sheriff Pepper, is brought back for a pointless appearance, the scene with the kung fu schoolgirls is just embarassing, and although I think Christopher Lee and Maud Adams perform admirably, they aren't utilized very well. I realize that TMWTGG has its fans, but it ranks next to last on my list, just above AVTAK.

James Suzuki

I wish Christopher Lee could return in a Bond film....

Silhouette Man

Jarvio wrote:

To say it's one of the 5 most hated bond films by the masses, it's not too bad. Nowhere near as good as AVTAK though

As much as I like AVTAK, this is a much better film!

James Suzuki

Silhouette Man wrote:

Jarvio wrote:

To say it's one of the 5 most hated bond films by the masses, it's not too bad. Nowhere near as good as AVTAK though

As much as I like AVTAK, this is a much better film!

Agree, but IMHO they're both better then GF

Silhouette Man

James Suzuki wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Jarvio wrote:

To say it's one of the 5 most hated bond films by the masses, it's not too bad. Nowhere near as good as AVTAK though

As much as I like AVTAK, this is a much better film!

Agree, but IMHO they're both better then GF

I'm not a big GF fan, strangely for a James Bond fan, although I have to agree with you on this. OHMSS is a much better film - GF put Bond on the campy silly road to YOLT, DAF, TSWLM, MR etc. and that can't be a good thing!

Firemass

TMWTGG is on my list of 007 films to rewatch with deeper appreciation. Currently it's my least favorite of the RM era but it does have quite a few great ingredients such as Christopher Lee, Maud Adams, the golden gun, a dashing Roger Moore, and great locations. I also am a fan of the See Bee that Bond is flying. There's a very similar one at my local airport and it's a really neat airplane.

So yeah...looking forward to seeing it again. Not looking forward to JW Pepper!

Sherbrook

Low-key climax compared to most other films in the series

Blackleiter

TMWTGG and AVATAK better than Goldfinger??? Insanity reigns!!!!!!

James Suzuki wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

Jarvio wrote:

To say it's one of the 5 most hated bond films by the masses, it's not too bad. Nowhere near as good as AVTAK though

As much as I like AVTAK, this is a much better film!

Agree, but IMHO they're both better then GF

Silhouette Man

Blackleiter wrote:

TMWTGG and AVATAK better than Goldfinger??? Insanity reigns!!!!!!

James Suzuki wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

As much as I like AVTAK, this is a much better film!

Agree, but IMHO they're both better then GF

In all sanity, you do have to admit that GF is rather over-rated!

chrisisall

Sherbrook wrote:

Low-key climax compared to most other films in the series

Makes it DIFFERENT, not bad! )
Can't say much that hasn't been said except that I think it's Hamilton's best Bond, and YES that means I like it better than Goldfinger.
Overall.
Pussy Galore still rules, though.

Silhouette Man

chrisisall wrote:

Sherbrook wrote:

Low-key climax compared to most other films in the series

Makes it DIFFERENT, not bad! )
Can't say much that hasn't been said except that I think it's Hamilton's best Bond, and YES that means I like it better than Goldfinger.
Overall.
Pussy Galore still rules, though.

I have to say I agree 100% that this is Hamilton's best film! Much more introspection of the JB character!

chrisisall

Silhouette Man wrote:

I have to say I agree 100% that this is Hamilton's best film!

He went out on a high creative note, if a low box office one... 8-)

Blackleiter

Even if I agreed that GF is over-rated, which I don't, there's no way either TMWTGG or AVTAK are better films. No way! (IMO of course)

Silhouette Man wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

TMWTGG and AVATAK better than Goldfinger??? Insanity reigns!!!!!!

James Suzuki wrote:

Agree, but IMHO they're both better then GF

In all sanity, you do have to admit that GF is rather over-rated!

chrisisall

Blackleiter wrote:

Even if I agreed that GF is over-rated, which I don't, there's no way ... TMWTGG ... [is a] better [film]. No way!

Watch out! There're crocodiles in denial!
) ) ) )

raptors_887

The only thing I really liked about the movie was the golden gun because I loved using it in the GoldenEye video game. Other than that there wasn't a whole lot of action in the movie though.

The one big flaw with the story was apparently it was that girl who sent him the bullet with his name on it because she wanted Bond to help her. But when he went to see her in her hotel room, she pointed a gun at him and told him to leave.

I also did not like J.W Pepper or the karate kids.

So overall it was maybe an average movie but not as bad as some people make it sound.

chrisisall

raptors_887 wrote:

So overall it was maybe an average movie but not as bad as some people make it sound.

TMWTGG is my #1 Moore film, followed by OP & TSWLM. -{ :007) B-)

raptors_887

chrisisall wrote:

raptors_887 wrote:

So overall it was maybe an average movie but not as bad as some people make it sound.

TMWTGG is my #1 Moore film, followed by OP & TSWLM. -{ :007) B-)

Oh really mine is OP followed by LALD and TSWLM. But I haven't seen AVTAK yet.

Blackleiter

Nope! Just watched it again this weekend. Sorry, not good stuff!

chrisisall wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

Even if I agreed that GF is over-rated, which I don't, there's no way ... TMWTGG ... [is a] better [film]. No way!

Watch out! There're crocodiles in denial!
) ) ) )

chrisisall

Blackleiter wrote:

Nope! Just watched it again this weekend. Sorry, not good stuff!

You must have made the mistake of not including beer & pizza.... )

LastRatStanding

I think i'd have liked TMWTGG more if it was darker. Scaramanga is actually pretty likeable!

Dalkowski110

Blackleiter wrote:

Even if I agreed that GF is over-rated, which I don't, there's no way either TMWTGG or AVTAK are better films. No way! (IMO of course)

I think it IS overrated (why does it get ranked in front of FRWL so much, for example?) but still agree with you. It suffers from the same problem as the Marx Brothers' A Night at the Opera.

Typically, when people are introduced to the Marx Brothers, they're shown A Night at the Opera. When they discover other Marx Brothers films and even Vaudeville shorts with surviving sound, they just start nitpicking the heck out of A Night at the Opera. If you didn't actually watch it, you'd think that everyone except the critics hated it and that it was a terrible movie. Anything but!

Likewise, when people are introduced to "formulaic Bond", they're generally introduced to Goldfinger. Maybe it's not the first of the formulaic Bonds, but they're told it's the best. So they start nitpicking it to death.

In fact, the phenomenon isn't even limited to movies. I'm a HUGE baseball fan and really, really into baseball research. A friend of mine likes researching the Negro Leagues prior to the advent of integrated baseball. He came up with something he calls "Faster than Satchel Syndrome". Satchel Paige was probably one of the game's great pitchers and sadly lost out of most of what should have been his Major League career thanks to being black. But start asking guys who played in the Negro Leagues and you'll start getting "well, Satchel was fast, sure, but Dick Redding was faster." Or maybe Hilton Smith. Or perhaps Slim Jones. Or how about Bill Foster. Or Leon Day. Maybe Jose Mendez. Maybe Smokey Joe Williams if they're really old (John Henry Lloyd, who was generally perceived as a very smart, level-headed guy saw both and said Paige was faster). But that's not the point. The point is that they all used Satchel Paige as a measuring stick, to a man. They were told by their managers that Paige was probably the fastest guy they'd see in the league. So they started looking for the possibility, quite possibly unconsciously in many cases, that there was some well-established pitcher who was already faster. He was always second or third best. Nobody was putting him way down the list unless they saw him after his circa 1941 arm injury. Listen to enough of the accounts collected during the 1980's and 1990's, though, and your picture begins to emerge that he was a junkballer throughout his career who couldn't break 85 mph. He may not have been the fastest, but he threw HARD, likely in the 90's, and nobody denies that. If you're looking for someone else a lot like that, try Steve Dalkowski (yes, that's how I got my username; good friend of mine) or Nolan Ryan later on. "Yes, he was fast, but [pitcher x] seemed faster." Yet, they still used Steve and Nolan Ryan as measuring sticks.

How does this translate to Bond? Simple: we're all using GF as a measuring stick, whether consciously or not. That means that you watched it and thought highly enough of it to compare other Bond films you perceive as really good to it rather than something else. How many Bond films can TRULY claim that wide appeal? THAT is why I think GF is a truly great Bond film, even IF it's overrated.

chrisisall

LastRatStanding wrote:

Scaramanga is actually pretty likeable!

Ahhh, but that's what he'd LIKE you to think, eh? )

chrisisall

Dalkowski110 wrote:

How does this translate to Bond? Simple: we're all using GF as a measuring stick, whether consciously or not.

Sorry, I use DN, FRWL, TLD & LTK as my measuring stick(s).
Moore's TMWTGG is the closest he was involved in by that reckoning IMO.

Dalkowski110

chrisisall wrote:

Dalkowski110 wrote:

How does this translate to Bond? Simple: we're all using GF as a measuring stick, whether consciously or not.

Sorry, I use DN, FRWL, TLD & LTK as my measuring stick(s).
Moore's TMWTGG is the closest he was involved in by that reckoning IMO.

You're an exception, actually, and I should have noted it. You DON'T do this. However, look at a great many posts and you'll find "it's [whatever film they're talking about] certainly underrated and GF is certainly overrated/not as good/film x is better than GF". So why single out GF? Incidentally, I also try and avoid this and generally use FRWL as a measuring stick.

raptors_887

TMWTGG has the lowest kill count in the series with Bond only killing one person throughout the entire movie. And 6 kills all together. Just kind of shows how little action there was.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/datablog/2012/oct/05/james-bond-bodycount-deaths

chrisisall

raptors_887 wrote:

TMWTGG has the lowest kill count in the series with Bond only killing one person throughout the entire movie. And 6 kills all together. Just kind of shows how little action there was.

Kill count counts less for me than style, score, locations & character. -{