F Word in the Novels

AlphaOmegaSin

Has anyone else noticed that the 'F' Word is Censored out when it appears in the Novels? I'm currently reading the Vintage 007 Reprints that came out last year and Diamonds are forever is the first of the Books to use the word.

Napoleon Plural

Yes, and the f word was changed to fuggit in Mailer's Naked and the Dead, a 50s novel. Bond swears at GF in this way...

Mind you, they also blank out place names in really old novels like Jane Eyre, not sure why. Is it so the story could apply anywhere?

Silhouette Man

Yes, the f-word also appears a few times in Dr. No - by the Chigroes employed by Dr. No. See my related article on The Bondologist Blog here:

http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/james-bond-novels-that-were-edited.html

boundlessrogue

A lot of books written at and before that time are like that. Hardboiled detective novels by Hammet and Chandler do the same thing. They were much stricter about things like that then, but these spy and detective novels dealt with seedier characters who used that kind of language so they'd want that authenticity, but you can't sell books if they get banned left and right.

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the 'F' Word is Censored out when it appears in the Novels? I'm currently reading the Vintage 007 Reprints that came out last year and Diamonds are forever is the first of the Books to use the word.

Silhouette Man

boundlessrogue wrote:

A lot of books written at and before that time are like that. Hardboiled detective novels by Hammet and Chandler do the same thing. They were much stricter about things like that then, but these spy and detective novels dealt with seedier characters who used that kind of language so they'd want that authenticity, but you can't sell books if they get banned left and right.

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the 'F' Word is Censored out when it appears in the Novels? I'm currently reading the Vintage 007 Reprints that came out last year and Diamonds are forever is the first of the Books to use the word.

Agreed - the long dash "_________" seemed to be a precautionary tactic in those days of the Obscene Publication Acts 1959 and 1964 - the R v Penguin Books case in 1960/61 did much to verturn the banning of the use of expletives and general four-letter words in literature. There would be a similar movement in the relaxation of the Censorship of Films in c. 1968 when the rules were somewhat changed!

boundlessrogue

Yeah, I remember learning about censorship in films in school. It was even things like if two people were in a bed together one had to have at least one foot on the floor. One of the things that always interested me about older films and literature was the subtly. It was even more challenging to talk about those themes when you couldn't say it or show it directly. I have a lot of admiration for writers who found clever ways to make it obvious but not overt.

Agreed - the long dash "_________" seemed to be a precautionary tactic in those days of the Obscene Publication Acts 1959 and 1964 - the R v Penguin Books case in 1960/61 did much to verturn the banning of the use of expletives and general four-letter words in literature. There would be a similar movement in the relaxation of the Censorship of Films in c. 1968 when the rules were somewhat changed!

Silhouette Man

boundlessrogue wrote:

Yeah, I remember learning about censorship in films in school. It was even things like if two people were in a bed together one had to have at least one foot on the floor. One of the things that always interested me about older films and literature was the subtly. It was even more challenging to talk about those themes when you couldn't say it or show it directly. I have a lot of admiration for writers who found clever ways to make it obvious but not overt.

Agreed - the long dash "_________" seemed to be a precautionary tactic in those days of the Obscene Publication Acts 1959 and 1964 - the R v Penguin Books case in 1960/61 did much to verturn the banning of the use of expletives and general four-letter words in literature. There would be a similar movement in the relaxation of the Censorship of Films in c. 1968 when the rules were somewhat changed!

Yes, writers on the page, staage or screen had to be much more judicious and discerning and more damn talented in those olden days and more innocent times than the current celebrity obsessed culture than we live in in the world of 2013.

chrisisall

Silhouette Man wrote:

Yes, writers on the page, stage or screen had to be much more judicious and discerning and more damn talented in those olden days and more innocent times than the current celebrity obsessed culture than we live in in the world of 2013.

Hey, **** you!

) Just kidding, I agree.

chrisno1

It's an interesting point about writers unable to use the words they wanted to.
Would A Streetcar Named Desire for instance have the same impact had it been peppered with 'f' words (as a modern take on the theme and setting surely would be)? Williams had to create his characters without resorting to common modes of expression. It allows the cast to become more rounded and their arguments and beliefs more balanced. That isn't to say that had he been able to Williams wouldn't have used the odd obscenity, but the power of the piece is divulged from what is carried within the dialogue, not its surface value.
Similarly while D.H.Lawrence used the 'f' and the 'c' word, most famously in Lady Chatterley, his best work is absent of it (see 'The Rainbow' etc) and generally his prose hardly needs it. When Lawrence uses these words thye have a very startling effect, being quite earthy, almost belonging to another world. It is the positioning of the obscenity that demands the reader takes notice, but it isn't done for any celebrity value, Lawrence was designing not as a shock tactic, but as a provokation to the accepted behaviour. In that regard, he succeeds.
The proliferation of swearing in much modern literature doesn't help the telling of a story or the development of a character. My earliest Fan Fiction tended to feature the 'f' word, but as I continued to write, and am now writing independently, I tend to shy away from it. Some characters don't require it. Swearing generally gets in the way of a story or sentence and if it is over used it becomes a bore.
My non-Bond hero has a past history which suggests he would use industrial language, although he only tends to do so under extreme pressure, when the facade he's built for himself crumbles. This is far more acceptable and believable to a reader than the arbitary dropping in of 'f', 's' or 'c' - which can appear to be a base form of character development - e.g. this guy's a bit of a ruffian so he swears a lot.
It's interesting (but my memory might be wrong) that those long dash marks _______ faded out of Fleming's novels at precisesly the moment the real word could have been published, as if Fleming himself ceased to consider them important once anyone could print them, or perhaps as he got more experienced he came to see other aspects of dialogue as more important. I don't remember if any continuation novel features a printed 'f' word. A James Bond novel, in a strangely anachronistic way, hardly seems to require it. Even the movies with thier occasional forays into the profane appear reluctant to embrace such expressions. I find it all quite refreshing.

Silhouette Man

chrisno1 wrote:

It's an interesting point about writers unable to use the words they wanted to.
Would A Streetcar Named Desire for instance have the same impact had it been peppered with 'f' words (as a modern take on the theme and setting surely would be)? Williams had to create his characters without resorting to common modes of expression. It allows the cast to become more rounded and their arguments and beliefs more balanced. That isn't to say that had he been able to Williams wouldn't have used the odd obscenity, but the power of the piece is divulged from what is carried within the dialogue, not its surface value.
Similarly while D.H.Lawrence used the 'f' and the 'c' word, most famously in Lady Chatterley, his best work is absent of it (see 'The Rainbow' etc) and generally his prose hardly needs it. When Lawrence uses these words thye have a very startling effect, being quite earthy, almost belonging to another world. It is the positioning of the obscenity that demands the reader takes notice, but it isn't done for any celebrity value, Lawrence was designing not as a shock tactic, but as a provokation to the accepted behaviour. In that regard, he succeeds.
The proliferation of swearing in much modern literature doesn't help the telling of a story or the development of a character. My earliest Fan Fiction tended to feature the 'f' word, but as I continued to write, and am now writing independently, I tend to shy away from it. Some characters don't require it. Swearing generally gets in the way of a story or sentence and if it is over used it becomes a bore.
My non-Bond hero has a past history which suggests he would use industrial language, although he only tends to do so under extreme pressure, when the facade he's built for himself crumbles. This is far more acceptable and believable to a reader than the arbitary dropping in of 'f', 's' or 'c' - which can appear to be a base form of character development - e.g. this guy's a bit of a ruffian so he swears a lot.
It's interesting (but my memory might be wrong) that those long dash marks _______ faded out of Fleming's novels at precisesly the moment the real word could have been published, as if Fleming himself ceased to consider them important once anyone could print them, or perhaps as he got more experienced he came to see other aspects of dialogue as more important. I don't remember if any continuation novel features a printed 'f' word. A James Bond novel, in a strangely anachronistic way, hardly seems to require it. Even the movies with thier occasional forays into the profane appear reluctant to embrace such expressions. I find it all quite refreshing.

Raymond Benson's The Facts of Death (1998) features the "f-word" when Felix Leiter uses it in a passage set in Texas. The Bond films DAF, LALD, AVTAK, LTK, TND, QoS and SF all contain swear words, either mouthed or said clearly. Not a bad record for some 50 years of James Bond movies! Somehow, expletives generally don't sit well in the James Bond literary and cinematic universe. As you said, most refreshing in this day and age!

boundlessrogue

When it comes to my writing and swearing I tend to ask myself if it suits the narrative or characters. I myself am actually fairly foul mouthed, sometimes it spills over into my writing. I don't think it always helps, but it doesn't always hurt. It's a matter of authenticity. You have to make a story believable. My novel Cannon Fodder (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Fodder-Secret-Lives-Henchmen/dp/0988669803) for example, is a Bond-style parody told from the henchmen's point of view. These aren't the types of guys who say "Fiddlesticks." They're "evil" minions, they'd use foul language. And the problem with using dashes ("f---") is it pulls you out of the f---ing narrative because it makes it stand out too f---ing much. And actually calls even more attention to it. it's like watching a movie on basic cable, here in the States at least, when a swear word is bleeped, censored with a noticeable silence, or even dubbed over with something else. Like in Lethal Weapon when Mel Gibson says, "I'm gonna get those lousy funners." That just pulls you out of the narrative. Sometimes it draws even more attention to the word than if you had just used the word.

Silhouette Man

boundlessrogue wrote:

When it comes to my writing and swearing I tend to ask myself if it suits the narrative or characters. I myself am actually fairly foul mouthed, sometimes it spills over into my writing. I don't think it always helps, but it doesn't always hurt. It's a matter of authenticity. You have to make a story believable. My novel Cannon Fodder (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Fodder-Secret-Lives-Henchmen/dp/0988669803) for example, is a Bond-style parody told from the henchmen's point of view. These aren't the types of guys who say "Fiddlesticks." They're "evil" minions, they'd use foul language. And the problem with using dashes ("f---") is it pulls you out of the f---ing narrative because it makes it stand out too f---ing much. And actually calls even more attention to it. it's like watching a movie on basic cable, here in the States at least, when a swear word is bleeped, censored with a noticeable silence, or even dubbed over with something else. Like in Lethal Weapon when Mel Gibson says, "I'm gonna get those lousy funners." That just pulls you out of the narrative. Sometimes it draws even more attention to the word than if you had just used the word.

Agreed on that; no point in beating about the bush, I suppose!

However, Fleming did say that he used plenty of four-letter words on the golf course, but that he didn't like to see them appear on the printed page. He said it'd have been better that Lady Chatterley's Lover had never been published unexpurgated at all in his interview with Roy Newquist for the book Counterpoint, but then this is hardly surprising as he was a Scot with a puritanical streak that hid an inner self-loathing.

boundlessrogue

Silhouette Man wrote:

boundlessrogue wrote:

When it comes to my writing and swearing I tend to ask myself if it suits the narrative or characters. I myself am actually fairly foul mouthed, sometimes it spills over into my writing. I don't think it always helps, but it doesn't always hurt. It's a matter of authenticity. You have to make a story believable. My novel Cannon Fodder (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Fodder-Secret-Lives-Henchmen/dp/0988669803) for example, is a Bond-style parody told from the henchmen's point of view. These aren't the types of guys who say "Fiddlesticks." They're "evil" minions, they'd use foul language. And the problem with using dashes ("f---") is it pulls you out of the f---ing narrative because it makes it stand out too f---ing much. And actually calls even more attention to it. it's like watching a movie on basic cable, here in the States at least, when a swear word is bleeped, censored with a noticeable silence, or even dubbed over with something else. Like in Lethal Weapon when Mel Gibson says, "I'm gonna get those lousy funners." That just pulls you out of the narrative. Sometimes it draws even more attention to the word than if you had just used the word.

Agreed on that; no point in beating about the bush, I suppose!

However, Fleming did say that he used plenty of four-letter words on the golf course, but that he didn't like to see them appear on the printed page. He said it'd have been better that Lady Chatterley's Lover had never been published unexpurgated at all in his interview with Roy Newquist for the book Counterpoint, but then this is hardly surprising as he was a Scot with a puritanical streak that hid an inner self-loathing.

Everybody uses four letter words on the golf course.
golf
ball
hole
flag
fore
club
iron
wood
-{

Silhouette Man

boundlessrogue wrote:

Silhouette Man wrote:

boundlessrogue wrote:

When it comes to my writing and swearing I tend to ask myself if it suits the narrative or characters. I myself am actually fairly foul mouthed, sometimes it spills over into my writing. I don't think it always helps, but it doesn't always hurt. It's a matter of authenticity. You have to make a story believable. My novel Cannon Fodder (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Fodder-Secret-Lives-Henchmen/dp/0988669803) for example, is a Bond-style parody told from the henchmen's point of view. These aren't the types of guys who say "Fiddlesticks." They're "evil" minions, they'd use foul language. And the problem with using dashes ("f---") is it pulls you out of the f---ing narrative because it makes it stand out too f---ing much. And actually calls even more attention to it. it's like watching a movie on basic cable, here in the States at least, when a swear word is bleeped, censored with a noticeable silence, or even dubbed over with something else. Like in Lethal Weapon when Mel Gibson says, "I'm gonna get those lousy funners." That just pulls you out of the narrative. Sometimes it draws even more attention to the word than if you had just used the word.

Agreed on that; no point in beating about the bush, I suppose!

However, Fleming did say that he used plenty of four-letter words on the golf course, but that he didn't like to see them appear on the printed page. He said it'd have been better that Lady Chatterley's Lover had never been published unexpurgated at all in his interview with Roy Newquist for the book Counterpoint, but then this is hardly surprising as he was a Scot with a puritanical streak that hid an inner self-loathing.

Everybody uses four letter words on the golf course.
golf
ball
hole
flag
fore
club
iron
wood
-{

Yes, well as far as jokes go, boundlessrogue, that's a "hole in one"!