The villainy of Dominic Greene in QoS - What went wrong?

Silhouette Man

What are our collective thoughts on Dominic Greene as a villain in QoS - was he great or was he underused/underdeveloped?

I think that he was intreresting and had potential, but not enough was done with him, just like his henchman Elvis.

Le Samourai

Personally, I loved Greene as a villain. Mathieu Amalric is a great actor (see the phenomenal 'The Butterfly and the Diving Bell') and I thought he brought a lot to the role, though I grant I would have liked to see more of him.

Greene's scenes with General Medrano were particularly well-done, as were his scenes with Camille. I liked how he projected a subtle, controlled menace. And I really like when he snapped at the climax and went after Bond with the axe. He was the only Bond villain to show real rage at having his plans thwarted.

To be honest, while I liked Bardem in SF, in some ways I prefer the subtlety of Amalric's performance.

Napoleon Plural

Diving Bell is a good film - but how much of his acting do you really see in it? It's all filmed from his point of view, the camera is looking outwards and I think we only hear his voice. Not much actual acting, surely?

I thought they messed up. When Amalric said he wanted the villain to have a touch of Tony Blair about him, well, that's all very well but what many hate about Blair is his sanctimonious sincerity - he is not a knowing villain. Whereas Bond villains sort of have to be.

I suppose he looked a bit creepy, and maybe his look is a nod to Polanski, who directed Chinatown with a similar watery theme and had a memorable cameo on it. But he wasn't given much to do, very few scenes opposite Bond, it's almost like the villains occupy different films these days.

Yes, the beserk with an axe thing was good. I'd have liked a bit more with the Canadian agent's 'boyfriend' now what he was up to was creepy. I slightly lost Amalric from hello, in a stupid scene when the girl discovers she's about to be shot by him - so makes a beeline to his place to confront him! Like you do. 8-)

Le Samourai

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Diving Bell is a good film - but how much of his acting do you really see in it? It's all filmed from his point of view, the camera is looking outwards and I think we only hear his voice. Not much actual acting, surely?

Not to nitpick, but only about a third of the film was from his POV. We see Amalric's face quite a few times, and even though his character is paralyzed, I still think he manages to convey emotion, which is impressive. And I do consider voice acting to still be acting. It presents a unique set of challenges for the actor.

LastRatStanding

Greene was a great villain stuck in a not so great film! One of the few shining aspects of the film is Greene and Mathieu Amalric's portrayal of him!

always shaken

I agree 100% with agent lastratstanding,in a way its a shame he dies
he could have been a great re-ocouring bogeyman for Bond
in Mi6 fight against international terroism,

chrisisall

No problems whatsoever with Greene. I like strange/subtle. -{

Dalkowski110

His problem was that he was used and probably underused in a way that made him seem like a complete wuss. As I've said a couple times, the film should have been extended to show Greene actually appearing threatening as opposed to "informed evil". Stop telling us why the guy is evil or hinting at it. SHOW us. SHOW him ordering the death of Strawberry Fields and then have him make some sort of weird sad puppy face as gets off the phone, but then being forced to shake it off as someone asks him a question...any question. Show the poor villagers start rioting and him, after asking one of his bean counters how much money he'll lose, order their deaths, then start musing bizarrely about how much money he could have gained had they lived.

In the axe fight, his shrieking is way more irritating than sinister. I don't care if he has an axe. You have to make this guy incredibly manipulative and evil, but personally a complete coward, albeit not an emotional one.

Give Medrano a few better lines to show us he's aware that Greene is a total coward and perhaps have him simply shrug or not really care when Greene threatens him, then show it getting irritating to Greene that while his flunkies may be able to initimidate Medrano, the one and only reason he can is because he's also bought off Medrano's right-hand man.

If you're going to take a blueprint for Greene, make it Technician Fifth Grade Upham from Saving Private Ryan. Same type of guy, but with Upham, it was both illustrated and illustrated brutally (and well).

Firemass

I agree with Dalkowski that more time could have been spent developing his evilness. Especially since QoS was such a short 007 movie.

His death was particularly unpleasant. Bond should not sink to his level.

Dalkowski110

One could say that he has "Boba Fett Disease" (i.e. informed ability/evilness/badassery and very little to show for it, even in the Star Wars Expanded Universe [at first, anyway]), but actually worse than Boba Fett...

Le Samourai

It's interesting how some fans prefer more obviously evil villains, while others prefer more subtly evil villains.

I prefer subtle. Case in point: I vastly prefer Brian Cox as Hannibal Lecter in Michael Mann's brilliant Manhunter to Anthony Hopkins's hammy, overacting portrayal in Silence of the Lambs etc.

(I thought Manhunter was a far superior film to Silence of the Lambs in general, but that's another topic!)

Number24

I don't think Green was the problem. Great actor - good character. The story about the piano teacher and the threatening of the general was great. The problem on the villan side was Elvis. Green isn't a fighter, so the movie needed a henchman who could compensate for for this. Instead we got an inept comic relief.

alphaagent

I liked Green, he seemed the perfect arrogant, cowardly, powerful (in the way of money and influence) and the complete opposite of Bond who is the Alpha male. They matched perfectly in my opinion. Greene follows in the vein of Dr No, he is evil in a subtle way, can match Bond because of his power but not physically in which clearly Bond is superior. I thought the fight was great.

moonraker84

I think Greene was a good but not great villain, i think the true villain of the Quantum outfit was Mr White who i would like to see in the future.

alphaagent

moonraker84 wrote:

I think Greene was a good but not great villain, i think the true villain of the Quantum outfit was Mr White who i would like to see in the future.

agreed, he was a slimey Sh#t

Ens007

Dalkowski110 wrote:

His problem was that he was used and probably underused in a way that made him seem like a complete wuss. As I've said a couple times, the film should have been extended to show Greene actually appearing threatening as opposed to "informed evil". Stop telling us why the guy is evil or hinting at it. SHOW us. SHOW him ordering the death of Strawberry Fields and then have him make some sort of weird sad puppy face as gets off the phone, but then being forced to shake it off as someone asks him a question...any question. Show the poor villagers start rioting and him, after asking one of his bean counters how much money he'll lose, order their deaths, then start musing bizarrely about how much money he could have gained had they lived.

In the axe fight, his shrieking is way more irritating than sinister. I don't care if he has an axe. You have to make this guy incredibly manipulative and evil, but personally a complete coward, albeit not an emotional one.

Give Medrano a few better lines to show us he's aware that Greene is a total coward and perhaps have him simply shrug or not really care when Greene threatens him, then show it getting irritating to Greene that while his flunkies may be able to initimidate Medrano, the one and only reason he can is because he's also bought off Medrano's right-hand man.

Totally agree ^^

I actually felt that Greene had so little true screen time, making it hard to gauge his level of madness / nastiness / evil etc and therefore he sadly became somewhat of a nothing character. I felt little or no menace to him as the character's part was left 'short' and this is a real pity, as I believe Mathieu Amalric was potentially a fantastic villain.

Dalkowski110

Le Samourai wrote:

I prefer subtle. Case in point: I vastly prefer Brian Cox as Hannibal Lecter in Michael Mann's brilliant Manhunter to Anthony Hopkins's hammy, overacting portrayal in Silence of the Lambs etc.

I think it's apples and oranges, as I too vastly prefer not only Brian Cox as Lecter but also Manhunter to Silence of the Lambs.

Number24 wrote:

I don't think Green was the problem. Great actor - good character. The story about the piano teacher and the threatening of the general was great. The problem on the villan side was Elvis. Green isn't a fighter, so the movie needed a henchman who could compensate for for this. Instead we got an inept comic relief.

Although I disagree about threatening Medrano (and agree about the story of the piano instructor), I agree with the rest of this. Simply put, he was, as alphaagent puts it, your basic "complete opposite" of the "alpha male". You can't have a non-physical villain without a henchman who is very physical, and in Greene's case, the one thing I liked about him (his strange, almost surreal demeanor...at least until the axe fight when it was totally ruined) NEEDED a henchman of near-Red Grant proportions. After all, was Rosa Klebb personally really that threatening? But Klebb was feared because she could manipulate anyone...and was shown doing so in the film. We don't even see Greene manipulating someone except possibly Medrano, who is just an uber-stereotypical Central/South American tin pot dictator, anyway. Why then, should we fear him?

Imagine FRWL with a minimal use of Blofeld (I did like Mr. White), but plenty of scenes of people talking about how evil and awful Rosa Klebb was, having her show up, and do absolutely zilch except make one partially threatening speech (analogous to the piano instructor talk) and slightly disconcert one person (analogous to Medrano being threatened). Have EVERYTHING ELSE implied. Now delete Red Grant. Just pretend he doesn't exist and never existed and that Klebb has to take up all the slack. I give you Domenic Greene, albeit with a much weirder, more pathetic attitude.

alphaagent wrote:

but not physically in which clearly Bond is superior. I thought the fight was great.

The reason I think we're starting to enter apples and oranges territory vis a vis Dr. No is because Dr. No realized he wasn't going to beat Bond. As such, he simply tried to take Bond down with him. With Greene, he clearly was just going berserk and it wasn't very good in my opinion. If you had him remain emotionless or make odd, childish faces while swinging the axe, though...THAT would have been genuinely creepy vs. shrieking like a banshee.

Absolutely_Cart

Greene had the subtle qualities of a good villain. He had that sinister goofy smile that just made you want to clock him in the face, like George W. Bush. In the end, I can say that while he's no Scaramanga or Kananga, he's definitely no Whitaker either.

Gassy Man

It's simple: He hardly did anything. Walking around with the label of villain and scowling at people is not enough. A good story makes the villain a participant and not an observer. The Bond films for years have limped along with weak villains. LeChiffre was a welcome change, but even he didn't have as much to do and say as Goldfinger.

broadshoulder

As I mentioned before Matthew Almaric is currently playing Chapuys in Wolf Hall. Some very big names currently in that.

I like Dominic Greene. He was slowly carving out at empire in Bolivia behind everyones back. I am not a fan of the showy villains. Elliott Carver hammed it up so much he bordered into parody.....and as for Gustav Graves

The Red Kind

I think Greene was probably more realistic than most of the villains we've seen in the past. Perhaps that was part of the problem he came across (to the average movie goer) as a bit boring..?? I think he works quite well though.

Thunderpussy

IMHO, Greene had great potential -{ sadly with the writers strike etc
We never got to see that fully executed.

Absolutely_Cart

broadshoulder wrote:

As I mentioned before Matthew Almaric is currently playing Chapuys in Wolf Hall. Some very big names currently in that.

I like Dominic Greene. He was slowly carving out at empire in Bolivia behind everyones back. I am not a fan of the showy villains. Elliott Carver hammed it up so much he bordered into parody.....and as for Gustav Graves

Exactly. Dominic Greene was believable. Elliot Carver and Gustav Graves, as you mentioned, weren't.

The Red Kind wrote:

I think Greene was probably more realistic than most of the villains we've seen in the past. Perhaps that was part of the problem he came across (to the average movie goer) as a bit boring..?? I think he works quite well though.

Agreed. People were so used to their coffee being creamed and sweetened, when they got it black they didn't want to drink it.

Thunderpussy wrote:

IMHO, Greene had great potential -{ sadly with the writers strike etc
We never got to see that fully executed.

Agree. Because he was such a subtle character, he hinged upon the movie's writing.

BIG TAM

I rather liked Amalric's performance. He reminded me of Peter Lorre.

King Kamal

Nothing wrong with Amalric's performance at all, carried the smug air of self confidence very well and the character comes across as very believable and intelligent yet also crucially immensely unlikable at the same time/deserving of a punch in the face.

What I think might have cheapened the character somewhat was not the axe fight (interesting to see such a wild side to a villain who had previously been in firm control of himself) but the seen where he is left in the in the dessert looking all helpless having cooperated with Bond to betray his organisation. This scene should make you marvel at Bond's work yet instead leaves you wondering if Greene was really any kind of threat in the first place, kind of the same thing they do with Koskov in TLD

Quist

Greene to me is very reminiscent of Tony Blair. Behind all that fake smiling and persona is a man who lies in bed with some of the worlds most corrupt and evil men just to line his own pockets and live the high life. I think Mathieu Almaric even said he based his performance on Blair with a hint of Sarkozy.
I never had a problem with the type of villain he portrayed but like most other stuff in QOS his character was not explored more.