1st Half better than 2nd Half

Firemass

There is a handful of Bond films that have a great 1st half but the 2nd half is a bit of a letdown. Sometimes the 2nd half letdown occurs due to giant battle scenes that lose sight of the character driven storyline. You Only Live Twice and Moonraker come to mind, however I find the hollowed-out volcano and Drax space station to be highly entertaining.

Here is my list of 007 films in chronological order that suffer from a lackluster 2nd half:

Goldfinger: Loses momentum once the story shifts to boring Kentucky. Bond basically failed his mission and is forced to sit out the remainder of the film in Goldfinger's jail cell. Fortunately, Pussy Galore switched the canisters.

GF first half: 10/10
GF second half: 5/10

Thunderball: Suffers from some slow pacing issues, but really comes to a halt with the giant underwater battle scene.

TB first half: 7/10
TB second half: 3/10

For Your Eyes Only: Large action set pieces without much dialog make the second half less interesting. The Neptune submarine diving sequence, the keel-hauling, and the lengthy rock climbing of the mountain fortress. The only respite is a brief appearance by Q.

FYEO first half: 9/10
FYEO second half: 6/10

Living Daylights: I love TLD, but when the story shifts to the Russian airbase in Afghanistan it becomes less of a Bond film and more of a Lawrence of Arabia or a western.
The fight with Necros hanging out the back of the C-130 is great though.

TLD first half: 10/10
TLD second half: 7/10

Tomorrow Never Dies: Due to some last minute script rewrites this Bond film turns into an action-packed bonanza aboard the Stealth ship which some fans have dubbed "Terminator Mode"
At least it's not boring like Thunderball.

TND first half: 8/10
TND second half: 5/10

Die Another Day: Darn, this one really took a turn for the worse. Brosnan deserved to go out better than this.

DAD first half: 9/10
DAD second half: 3/10

Skyfall: Great up until the meeting with Silva. The original plotline is dropped in favor of a villain who is a cross between Trevelyan's 006 and Elektra in TWINE. Severine's death is a disappointment. Silva's escape and the subsequent mass shooting at M's court marshal is unpleasant and should have been easily avoided. The showdown at the Skyfall ranch was a dumb idea. Kincaid is the worst Bond ally since JW Pepper.

SF first half: 8/10
SF second half: 3/10


That concludes my list. Any thoughts?

Dutchfinger

Firemass wrote:

There is a handful of Bond films that have a great 1st half but the 2nd half is a bit of a letdown. Sometimes the 2nd half letdown occurs due to giant battle scenes that lose sight of the character driven storyline. You Only Live Twice and Moonraker come to mind, however I find the hollowed-out volcano and Drax space station to be highly entertaining.

Here is my list of 007 films in chronological order that suffer from a lackluster 2nd half:

Goldfinger: Loses momentum once the story shifts to boring Kentucky. Bond basically failed his mission and is forced to sit out the remainder of the film in Goldfinger's jail cell. Fortunately, Pussy Galore switched the canisters.

GF first half: 10/10
GF second half: 5/10

Thunderball: Suffers from some slow pacing issues, but really comes to a halt with the giant underwater battle scene.

TB first half: 7/10
TB second half: 3/10

For Your Eyes Only: Large action set pieces without much dialog make the second half less interesting. The Neptune submarine diving sequence, the keel-hauling, and the lengthy rock climbing of the mountain fortress. The only respite is a brief appearance by Q.

FYEO first half: 9/10
FYEO second half: 6/10

Living Daylights: I love TLD, but when the story shifts to the Russian airbase in Afghanistan it becomes less of a Bond film and more of a Lawrence of Arabia or a western.
The fight with Necros hanging out the back of the C-130 is great though.

TLD first half: 10/10
TLD second half: 7/10

Tomorrow Never Dies: Due to some last minute script rewrites this Bond film turns into an action-packed bonanza aboard the Stealth ship which some fans have dubbed "Terminator Mode"
At least it's not boring like Thunderball.

TND first half: 8/10
TND second half: 5/10

Die Another Day: Darn, this one really took a turn for the worse. Brosnan deserved to go out better than this.

DAD first half: 9/10
DAD second half: 3/10

Skyfall: Great up until the meeting with Silva. The original plotline is dropped in favor of a villain who is a cross between Trevelyan's 006 and Elektra in TWINE. Severine's death is a disappointment. Silva's escape and the subsequent mass shooting at M's court marshal is unpleasant and should have been easily avoided. The showdown at the Skyfall ranch was a dumb idea. Kincaid is the worst Bond ally since JW Pepper.

SF first half: 8/10
SF second half: 3/10


That concludes my list. Any thoughts?

Intresting thoughts!
I understand your point on Goldfinger, however that is a Bond movie I tend to enjoy from the moment Bond comes out of the water, al the way to the part where Bond lies under the parachute to get Pussy. ( ) Your right though, basicly Bond did fail his mission at the Kentucky part, and the mission would have proberbly failed had Pussy Galore not switched the gas canisters... But I do not think the movie sinks in at any point.. This is the quintessential Bond movie we are talking about, and it holds up extremly well in my oppinion.

Thunderball
I agree on this on. But like a lot of fans agree, the slow pacing and the long under water scenes drag on. It's a great movie nevertheless. Still in my personal top 10.

For Your Eyes Only.
Difficult to say. I found myself enjoying this movie from start to finish when I last watched it. The rock climbing part is very suspenseful and well done!

The Living Daylights.
Again, agree on this one. The movie really does seem to slightly sink in on the Afghanistan part.

Tomorrow Never Dies
Also agree on this one. The stealth boat part really feels kind of 'been there, done that'. Brosnan seems invincible here.

Die Another Day.
Everybody on this forum is going to agree on this.

Skyfall.
Only watched it once so far, I am going to get it on blu ray when it's released here next month to give it some more views. For now, I'd say I dissagree with you on this one. I enjoyed this movie tremendously. Unlike QoS, which had me losing intrest in so many parts of the story. I was actually extremely happy to feel so involved into the story in this one. The second half was brilliant in my oppinion. (As was the first half)

Skocia

I feel Goldfinger, Live and Let Die, A View to a Kill and to a lesser extent Diamonds Are Forever suffer from this. Basically when Bond is in the USA. Nothing against films set in America but with Bond I like the locations to be different from all the other action films from Hollywood and there's always a dumb cop in the American scenes. No dumb cop in Goldfinger but Felix does annoy me so he takes the place as dumb cop in that )

The Las Vegas scenes in Diamonds Are Forever don't bother me quite as much but I think Connery saves it here. I would've liked to have seen more of Amsterdam.

Blackleiter

I totally agree with you about Goldfinger (my Number 1) and Skyfall. -{

Dutchfinger wrote:

Firemass wrote:

There is a handful of Bond films that have a great 1st half but the 2nd half is a bit of a letdown. Sometimes the 2nd half letdown occurs due to giant battle scenes that lose sight of the character driven storyline. You Only Live Twice and Moonraker come to mind, however I find the hollowed-out volcano and Drax space station to be highly entertaining.

Here is my list of 007 films in chronological order that suffer from a lackluster 2nd half:

Goldfinger: Loses momentum once the story shifts to boring Kentucky. Bond basically failed his mission and is forced to sit out the remainder of the film in Goldfinger's jail cell. Fortunately, Pussy Galore switched the canisters.

GF first half: 10/10
GF second half: 5/10

Thunderball: Suffers from some slow pacing issues, but really comes to a halt with the giant underwater battle scene.

TB first half: 7/10
TB second half: 3/10

For Your Eyes Only: Large action set pieces without much dialog make the second half less interesting. The Neptune submarine diving sequence, the keel-hauling, and the lengthy rock climbing of the mountain fortress. The only respite is a brief appearance by Q.

FYEO first half: 9/10
FYEO second half: 6/10

Living Daylights: I love TLD, but when the story shifts to the Russian airbase in Afghanistan it becomes less of a Bond film and more of a Lawrence of Arabia or a western.
The fight with Necros hanging out the back of the C-130 is great though.

TLD first half: 10/10
TLD second half: 7/10

Tomorrow Never Dies: Due to some last minute script rewrites this Bond film turns into an action-packed bonanza aboard the Stealth ship which some fans have dubbed "Terminator Mode"
At least it's not boring like Thunderball.

TND first half: 8/10
TND second half: 5/10

Die Another Day: Darn, this one really took a turn for the worse. Brosnan deserved to go out better than this.

DAD first half: 9/10
DAD second half: 3/10

Skyfall: Great up until the meeting with Silva. The original plotline is dropped in favor of a villain who is a cross between Trevelyan's 006 and Elektra in TWINE. Severine's death is a disappointment. Silva's escape and the subsequent mass shooting at M's court marshal is unpleasant and should have been easily avoided. The showdown at the Skyfall ranch was a dumb idea. Kincaid is the worst Bond ally since JW Pepper.

SF first half: 8/10
SF second half: 3/10


That concludes my list. Any thoughts?

Intresting thoughts!
I understand your point on Goldfinger, however that is a Bond movie I tend to enjoy from the moment Bond comes out of the water, al the way to the part where Bond lies under the parachute to get Pussy. ( ) Your right though, basicly Bond did fail his mission at the Kentucky part, and the mission would have proberbly failed had Pussy Galore not switched the gas canisters... But I do not think the movie sinks in at any point.. This is the quintessential Bond movie we are talking about, and it holds up extremly well in my oppinion.

Thunderball
I agree on this on. But like a lot of fans agree, the slow pacing and the long under water scenes drag on. It's a great movie nevertheless. Still in my personal top 10.

For Your Eyes Only.
Difficult to say. I found myself enjoying this movie from start to finish when I last watched it. The rock climbing part is very suspenseful and well done!

The Living Daylights.
Again, agree on this one. The movie really does seem to slightly sink in on the Afghanistan part.

Tomorrow Never Dies
Also agree on this one. The stealth boat part really feels kind of 'been there, done that'. Brosnan seems invincible here.

Die Another Day.
Everybody on this forum is going to agree on this.

Skyfall.
Only watched it once so far, I am going to get it on blu ray when it's released here next month to give it some more views. For now, I'd say I dissagree with you on this one. I enjoyed this movie tremendously. Unlike QoS, which had me losing intrest in so many parts of the story. I was actually extremely happy to feel so involved into the story in this one. The second half was brilliant in my oppinion. (As was the first half)

chrisisall

Firemass wrote:

Goldfinger: Loses momentum once the story shifts to boring Kentucky. Bond basically failed his mission and is forced to sit out the remainder of the film in Goldfinger's jail cell. Fortunately, Pussy Galore switched the canisters.
GF first half: 10/10
GF second half: 5/10

Right there with ya, bro, but the Oddjob fight saves the day IMO.

Thunderball: Suffers from some slow pacing issues, but really comes to a halt with the giant underwater battle scene.
TB first half: 7/10
TB second half: 3/10

Disagree a little here, underwater stuff is inherently slow, heh heh, my rating:
TB first half: 9/10
TB second half: 7/10

For Your Eyes Only: Large action set pieces without much dialog make the second half less interesting. The Neptune submarine diving sequence, the keel-hauling, and the lengthy rock climbing of the mountain fortress. The only respite is a brief appearance by Q.
FYEO first half: 9/10
FYEO second half: 6/10

Disagree entirely here, the movie is pretty even throughout for me.

Living Daylights: I love TLD, but when the story shifts to the Russian airbase in Afghanistan it becomes less of a Bond film and more of a Lawrence of Arabia or a western.
The fight with Necros hanging out the back of the C-130 is great though.
TLD first half: 10/10
TLD second half: 7/10

Disagree here as well, it holds me front to back.

Tomorrow Never Dies: Due to some last minute script rewrites this Bond film turns into an action-packed bonanza aboard the Stealth ship which some fans have dubbed "Terminator Mode"
At least it's not boring like Thunderball.
TND first half: 8/10
TND second half: 5/10

A small change:
TND second half: 9/10 )

Die Another Day: Darn, this one really took a turn for the worse. Brosnan deserved to go out better than this.
DAD first half: 9/10
DAD second half: 3/10

Pretty spot on.

Skyfall: Great up until the meeting with Silva. The original plotline is dropped in favor of a villain who is a cross between Trevelyan's 006 and Elektra in TWINE. Severine's death is a disappointment. Silva's escape and the subsequent mass shooting at M's court marshal is unpleasant and should have been easily avoided. The showdown at the Skyfall ranch was a dumb idea. Kincaid is the worst Bond ally since JW Pepper.
SF first half: 8/10
SF second half: 3/10

Analysis pretty spot on, but I'd rate the second half 6/10 just for the slick editing & fast pace.

raptors_887

I definetly felt that way after watching YOLT. The first half was really good but then it gets really slow until the final action scene starts. And then Bond trying to look Japanese was just stupid.

chrisisall

raptors_887 wrote:

And then Bond trying to look Japanese was just stupid.

As was Kirk trying to look like a Romulan about a year later. )

Nick37

YOLT.

1st half: Hey, this ain't bad!

2nd half. SNOOOOORE. Oh, It's Donald Pleasence! SNOOOOORE.

moonraker84

I agree with the OP regarding Tomorrow Never Dies, i thought the first half was really good but rapidly loses steam leaving an awful second half, disagree about Skyfall though, i thought that was good all the way through.

Mr_Osato

The movies that jump to mind immediately are:

Moonraker: I think the first half was quite good, exceptions on the rediculous gondola chase. But up to the Iguazu falls, it was an entertaining movie. The whole space sequence is what really brough the movie down.

Die another day: The best example of a movie that is divided. Right until the invisible car was introduced, this movie was very good. I enjoyed the Cuba moments (despite the sex scene, very un-Bond style), I liked the opening, I even enjoyed Madonna's song (go figure.) But than it took a turn for the worse: The invisible car, the Ice palace, the ice-chase, the crap CGI, the plot twists....totally ruined a movie that could have been great.

You only live twice: I love this movie, but the first half was better than the second half. I was sad to see Aki die.

Octopussy: I kind of enjoyed the time Bond was in India, but it went from mediocre to crap after he went to Germany. The clown and gorilla suits of course being the main cause.

Tomorrow never dies: Very enjoyable in the beginning, but became lousy after the helicopter/motorbike chase.

A view to a Kill: This became a crap and boring movie as soon as Bond set foot in the USA. The end was quite good though, with Zorin laughing to his death.

The living daylights: I did not like the second half either. No glamour anymore as soon as he set foot in Afghanistan.

Totally disagree with Skyfall: I think the second half was even better than the first half.

But good post, it is hardly ever that a movie has 2 great halfs, even in the Connery days. Only Goldfinger, FRWL, OHMSS come to mind that were ' perfect' for the entire time.

KKwheelchair

Skyfall
First Half 6
Second Half 9 (I loved Silva)
Moon Raker
First Half 9
Second Half 7 (I am a fan of the movie)

Firemass

Mr_Osato wrote:

But good post, it is hardly ever that a movie has 2 great halfs, even in the Connery days. Only Goldfinger, FRWL, OHMSS come to mind that were ' perfect' for the entire time.

I'm tempted to remove Tomorrow Never Dies from my original list. Die Another Day 2nd half is also better than I gave it credit. My opinions always change a little bit each time I rewatch the film.

Dr. No is just about perfect in the pacing department. It's exciting from start to finish and never a dull moment.

If you don't appreciate the space scenes in Moonraker then you are probably not the target audience for that film.

Octopussy and A View to a Kill are both top notch for me.

Licence to Kill was much better than Daylights in terms of keeping the tension and excitement high. I love the tanker chase.

Mr_Osato

really? You liked the second half of DAD? I cant give it more than 1 out of 10, it killed a great exit for Brosnan.

Agree with Dr No, it is not the fastest movie, but the pace remains the same all through the movie. There is never a real dull moment.

The space bit of Moonraker is only a small portion of the movie really. Besides, I dont mind the part that it is space that much, but all logic is removed when out of the blue, NASA soldiers appear out of nowhere.

Agree with LTK, dont agree with OP and AVTAK as explained earlier.

Firemass

well, I wouldn't say that i approve of the 2nd half of D.A.D but I do enjoy the ice palace and the car chase with Zao's green Jaguar.

RogueAgent007

I never really understood the complaint with Goldfinger's second half. To me, it seems Bond is staying there on purpose, taking advantage of Goldfinger's need to gloat in order to gather intelligence, and look for an opportunity to sabotage the plan. Which he accomplished thru sex with Pussy.

FYEO is a wonderful JB movie, carries me throughout. Even huge flaw in the climbing scene is forgivable 'cause the rest of the movie is so darn good.

Have to disagree with you on TLD, also. This is nearly a perfect Bond Movie to me. Infinitely better than TD's second outing.

However, spot on for TB, DAD, and Skyfall. Although, I give the first half of Skyfall a 3/10, and the second half 2/10. I really hated that movie. Still...better than QOS!

bailorg

raptors_887 wrote:

I definetly felt that way after watching YOLT. The first half was really good but then it gets really slow until the final action scene starts. And then Bond trying to look Japanese was just stupid.

This is the one that comes to mind first. Although "really good" might be overstating the first half in my book.

I know I'm in a definite minority on this one, but I think Goldfinger starts going downhill after the title sequence. Possibly my favorite PTS, great song, but the rest of the movie does very little for me.

A few factors:
1. Felix Leiter in this movie is downright awful
2. I seem to be one of the few people who actually dislikes the direction Guy Hamilton took Bond. Namely encouraging Bond to start spewing cheesy one-liners and introducing the idea that both M and Q strongly dislike Bond and only put up with him because he's the best.
3. Again, I suspect I'm in the minority on this one as well, as someone young enough to find political correctness normal, the overt sexism in GF is jarringly cringe-worthy.

Charmed & Dangerous

For me, QoS and TND are the two where the second half doesn't match the first.

In QoS, the car chase, Palio chase, discovery of Quantum as a widespread secret organisation, and Fight in Haiti are all fantastic.... But the moment the less-than imposing Greene comes into the picture, it starts to droop. The final scenes in La Perla de Las Dunas left me a bit underwhelmed.

Likewise imo TND starts brilliantly and cracks long at a fantastic pace right up until Bond's HALO dive into Chinese waters, after which the pace slackens a bit. Don't get me wrong, the second half still kicks ass, it's just one where I feel the first half is better than the second.

Firemass

In the 80's John Glen tried to steer the Bond films back towards Fleming material by incorporating the short stories. It would have been kinda cool if he made a few short bond films! They could be released as double features in the cinema.

Living Daylights would be a perfect Bond film if the closing shot was Bond and Kara sliding under the customs checkpoint on the cello. Leave the Tangier/Afghanistan for a different film.

Likewise, if the Risico portion of FYEO was released separately it could be Roger Moore's finest. If you haven't read Risico, I'm referring to the whole dinner with Kristatos, meeting the countess, harbor raid, and kicking the car off the cliff part of the film.

Barbel

I'd like to flip the question and ask- how many Bond films are there where the 2nd half is better than the first? The first title on my list would be QoS.

Mr_Osato

I am an exception, but I think Skyfall comes to mind. Maybe also CR and TMWTGG. And FRWL, although that movie is pitch perfect from the beginning on. However, the train fight takes place in the second half. OHMSS is the ebst example. It starts relatively slow, the break and entry in the Gumbold office is quite long and boring. But as soon as het hits Piz Gloria and especially after being recognized, the movie is improving tremendously with the ski chase and the attack on Piz Gloria as highlights.

chrisisall

Barbel wrote:

I'd like to flip the question and ask- how many Bond films are there where the 2nd half is better than the first? The first title on my list would be QoS.

DN, FRWL, OHMSS, QOS. Basically.

ZorinIndustries

I'm going to be honest here... I loved the second half of MR!

A lot of members seem to complain about the concept of Bond in Space, but I think it's pretty cool! It makes for a good action film with a twist. MR is unique for that very reason

I do enjoy the first half more, but the second half is right up there!

DieAnotherDay

Then there's also the films where the middle section is superior to the beginning or the end.
IMO Thunderball, Live and Let Die, TMWTGG, Octopussy, Licence to Kill and Casino Royale.
The 2nd Acts of these particular films I feel are all excellent.

Firemass

Barbel wrote:

I'd like to flip the question and ask- how many Bond films are there where the 2nd half is better than the first? The first title on my list would be QoS.

I would say the 2nd half OHMSS overpowers the weak PTS, long awkward conversation with Tracy's father, and the montage of Bond and Tracy falling in love. Thank goodness for Willy Bogner.

FRWL might also fall into this category because the 2nd half is more action packed with explosions and such. That doesn't necessarily mean "better" IMO

KKwheelchair

Firemass wrote:

Barbel wrote:

I'd like to flip the question and ask- how many Bond films are there where the 2nd half is better than the first? The first title on my list would be QoS.

I would say the 2nd half OHMSS overpowers the weak PTS, long awkward conversation with Tracy's father, and the montage of Bond and Tracy falling in love. Thank goodness for Willy Bogner.

FRWL might also fall into this category because the 2nd half is more action packed with explosions and such. That doesn't necessarily mean "better" IMO

I agree with you on FRWL and i think Skyfalls second half was better

Kabraxal

I think DAD is the only one that really sticks out to me... great first half and then it becomes another movie with all the gadgets and uber sci fi. Even Moonraker had a little more consistency than that.

Have to disagree on most of the rest... with them either being awesome throughout like TLD... or being utterly inconsistent throughout like Skyfall. By the time Severine was just thrown out like she was, I was wondering if I was watching a Bond film or something completely different. That moment though was just so UnBond that it sealed the movie's fate to me.

chrisisall

Kabraxal wrote:

Have to disagree on most of the rest... with them either being awesome throughout like TLD

Indubitably

.... or being utterly inconsistent throughout like Skyfall. By the time Severine was just thrown out like she was, I was wondering if I was watching a Bond film or something completely different. That moment though was just so UnBond that it sealed the movie's fate to me.

That was, for me, one of the worst moments in a Bond film ever. Next time I watch SF I'll just go to the bathroom during that scene & pretend like it never existed- if I didn't, I don't think I could watch the movie again I hated that so much. X-(

Firemass

chrisisall wrote:

Next time I watch SF I'll just go to the bathroom during that scene & pretend like it never existed- if I didn't, I don't think I could watch the movie again I hated that so much. X-(

Just curious...how do you feel about Bond's failure to protect Andrea Anders in TMWTGG ? She risked everything to get 007 involved and yet Bond seemed more interested in the Solex than keeping Andrea alive.

chrisisall

Firemass wrote:

Just curious...how do you feel about Bond's failure to protect Andrea Anders in TMWTGG ? She risked everything to get 007 involved and yet Bond seemed more interested in the Solex than keeping Andrea alive.

Fair question- she was killed before he got there and there was nothing he could do to change that. With Severine he could have shot Silva instead of playing a game he should have known would end up in her death.

Blackleiter

chrisisall wrote:

Firemass wrote:

Just curious...how do you feel about Bond's failure to protect Andrea Anders in TMWTGG ? She risked everything to get 007 involved and yet Bond seemed more interested in the Solex than keeping Andrea alive.

Fair question- she was killed before he got there and there was nothing he could do to change that. With Severine he could have shot Silva instead of playing a game he should have known would end up in her death.

As I recall the scene, Bond was surrounded by Silva's men. Remember, his strike team had not yet arrived. What do you think would have happened to Bond if he shot Silva? Or are you suggesting that he should have sacrificed his life for Severine's? And by the way, it's doubtful Severine's would have been spared either way. I'm just trying to get an idea of what the criitics of this sequence would have Bond do under those circumstances.

Kabraxal

Blackleiter wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Firemass wrote:

Just curious...how do you feel about Bond's failure to protect Andrea Anders in TMWTGG ? She risked everything to get 007 involved and yet Bond seemed more interested in the Solex than keeping Andrea alive.

Fair question- she was killed before he got there and there was nothing he could do to change that. With Severine he could have shot Silva instead of playing a game he should have known would end up in her death.

As I recall the scene, Bond was surrounded by Silva's men. Remember, his strike team had not yet arrived. What do you think would have happened to Bond if he shot Silva? Or are you suggesting that he should have sacrificed his life for Severine's? And by the way, it's doubtful Severine's would have been spared either way. I'm just trying to get an idea of what the criitics of this sequence would have Bond do under those circumstances.

Except he went right into action after she was shot, basically taking down everyone easily. It was a rushed moment at best, poorly written at worst. USually when a Bond girl dies, it is either because he isn't there to save her or she turns out to be evil and he kills her himself. This was just... shocking. From then on it was hard to watch the rest of the movei.