The most misguided criticisms you've read about Bond movies

chrisisall

What are some of the dopey, outlandish, funny or just plain wrong criticisms you've come across concerning your favourite Bond movies?
Here are mine:

YOLT- Connery's bored. I'm frankly bored of hearing it. Maybe he's not on fire in the role, but he gives a professional performance, and it worked for me. -{

DAF- It's the worst Bond movie ever. Oh, so, like, NSNA can be pretty dopey in places & TSWLM can be loaded with gags, and MR can have Jaws finding love in space, but DAF is THE WORST? Gimme a break. )

TMWTGG- Nothing really happens in it/ JW ruins it. What? Bond doesn't kill scores of peeps, so nothing happens? And as improbable it is the JW & Bond cross paths again, it's NOT impossible... like a man bursting like a balloon with no blood... ;%

LTK- Looks like an episode of Miami Vice. Ha ha, I always love that one. So, DAF looks like an episode of Vegas, I guess. AVTAK looks like Dirty Harry, I suppose? And of course, TSWLM is really just a remake of the Man From Atlantis pilot, correct?

TND- It has too much shooting, like a standard 90's action movie. Yeah, cuz remember, older movies like YOLT & TSWLM didn't do ANY of that nonsense, right? Anyway, you don't want nothing to happen, like in TMWTGG, do you? B-)

You got any to share?

Blackleiter

I'm with you all the way EXCEPT for the reappearance of JW Pepper in the TMWTGG. I hated that character in LALD and I hated him even more in TMWTGG!

One criticism I vehemently disagree with is that Daniel Craig's Bond has no range and comes across as merely a thug. WRONG! Sure, some of his emotional shadings are a bit more subtle than some of us are used to, but they are definitely there.

Another criticism that sticks in my craw is that Dalton was too stiff and "actorly" as Bond. I think his Bond is serious and ruthless, more like the character in the books, but not at all stiff. Maybe it's just that the transition between Roger Moore and Dalton is so jarring that it's difficult to appreciate the merits of Dalton's portrayal. Or maybe not!

chrisisall wrote:

What are some of the dopey, outlandish, funny or just plain wrong criticisms you've come across concerning your favourite Bond movies?
Here are mine:

YOLT- Connery's bored. I'm frankly bored of hearing it. Maybe he's not on fire in the role, but he gives a professional performance, and it worked for me. -{

DAF- It's the worst Bond movie ever. Oh, so, like, NSNA can be pretty dopey in places & TSWLM can be loaded with gags, and MR can have Jaws finding love in space, but DAF is THE WORST? Gimme a break. )

TMWTGG- Nothing really happens in it/ JW ruins it. What? Bond doesn't kill scores of peeps, so nothing happens? And as improbable it is the JW & Bond cross paths again, it's NOT impossible... like a man bursting like a balloon with no blood... ;%

LTK- Looks like an episode of Miami Vice. Ha ha, I always love that one. So, DAF looks like an episode of Vegas, I guess. AVTAK looks like Dirty Harry, I suppose? And of course, TSWLM is really just a remake of the Man From Atlantis pilot, correct?

TND- It has too much shooting, like a standard 90's action movie. Yeah, cuz remember, older movies like YOLT & TSWLM didn't do ANY of that nonsense, right? Anyway, you don't want nothing to happen, like in TMWTGG, do you? B-)

You got any to share?

Dalkowski110

Have got to agree with DAF, which I put first on this little list...

The rest, in order of how much I see them...

2) Quantum of Solace was realistic. No, it wasn't. Its portrayal of the Bechtel Water Privatization Deal was about as realistic as Moonraker's portrayal of outer space. Oh, and it got worse (and is STILL GETTING WORSE), not better. You wanna read the same amount of stuff I read on the Bolivian Gas Wars and Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozado/Carlos Mesa-Evo Morales transition that prove it?

3) Connery Was Bored in DAF. As I'm sure you know since it was your first, he was anything but. Ironically, I always thought he was having TOO MUCH FUN AT HIS OWN EXPENSE, though do find the film a hilarious stealth adult comedy. Ironically, NSNA plays with this at times, such as when Bond throws his urine sample that kills a guy. Connery's look when he realizes what it is is priceless; too bad it's been reduced to SNL-level humor.

4) Octopussy was totally ruined by the clown suit. Although the Tarzan yell and "Sit!" were pretty painful, the irony is how straight Moore plays it; even being on the verge of losing it. He's so out-of-character for his own Bond portrayals when he does this scene that he might as well be playing Sean Fynn from The Wild Geese here. This used to be the number one cliche commentary I used to see, but since people have started actually watching the film, this has dropped quite a bit.

5) The only bad aspect of FYEO was the ending. Did these people WATCH the PTS? Do we really think Blofeld getting dropped down a chimney is a "good" way to end the character?

chrisisall

Blackleiter wrote:

I'm with you all the way EXCEPT for the reappearance of JW Pepper in the TMWTGG. I hated that character in LALD and I hated him even more in TMWTGG!

I thought he fit in in LALD, but was very poorly placed in TMWTGG, however he was far from ruining the movie for me as he was only in it for a few minutes.

One criticism I vehemently disagree with is that Daniel Craig's Bond has no range and comes across as merely a thug. WRONG! Sure, some of his emotional shadings are a bit more subtle than some of us are used to, but they are definitely there.

Agree.

Another criticism that sticks in my craw is that Dalton was too stiff and "actorly" as Bond. I think his Bond is serious and ruthless, more like the character in the books, but not at all stiff.

No, not stiff at all, quite the opposite in fact.

TWINE- Brosnan's 'pain face' is stupid. We all show pain in different ways, Craig, for instance, did a comical clench/smile. It worked, and so did Brosnan's IMO! Get over it people!

chrisisall

Dalkowski110 wrote:

4) Octopussy was totally ruined by the clown suit. Although the Tarzan yell and "Sit!" were pretty painful, the irony is how straight Moore plays it; even being on the verge of losing it. He's so out-of-character for his own Bond portrayals when he does this scene that he might as well be playing Sean Fynn from The Wild Geese here. This used to be the number one cliche commentary I used to see, but since people have started actually watching the film, this has dropped quite a bit.

Yeah, I loved that whole scene, but I also have to say I laff my bum off at "SITTT"! )

superado

chrisisall wrote:

What are some of the dopey, outlandish, funny or just plain wrong criticisms you've come across concerning your favourite Bond movies?
Here are mine:

YOLT- Connery's bored. I'm frankly bored of hearing it. Maybe he's not on fire in the role, but he gives a professional performance, and it worked for me. -{

DAF- It's the worst Bond movie ever. Oh, so, like, NSNA can be pretty dopey in places & TSWLM can be loaded with gags, and MR can have Jaws finding love in space, but DAF is THE WORST? Gimme a break. )

TMWTGG- Nothing really happens in it/ JW ruins it. What? Bond doesn't kill scores of peeps, so nothing happens? And as improbable it is the JW & Bond cross paths again, it's NOT impossible... like a man bursting like a balloon with no blood... ;%

LTK- Looks like an episode of Miami Vice. Ha ha, I always love that one. So, DAF looks like an episode of Vegas, I guess. AVTAK looks like Dirty Harry, I suppose? And of course, TSWLM is really just a remake of the Man From Atlantis pilot, correct?

TND- It has too much shooting, like a standard 90's action movie. Yeah, cuz remember, older movies like YOLT & TSWLM didn't do ANY of that nonsense, right? Anyway, you don't want nothing to happen, like in TMWTGG, do you? B-)

You got any to share?

I don't know about some of those being misguided, but perhaps they're true and it's just a matter of preference that would make these things okay for someone, but not for others? For example, do compare Connery in DN and FRWL, with YOLT. Sometimes it's obvious that he's carrying on in YOLT under the premise of an inside joke, that all that stuff wasn't serious. Check out how he jaunts after Aki, or his evading the dock goons at Kobe, or his reaction after Aki dies...which was practically non-existant. Now the question is, can you tell if there's an obvious absence of sincerity in his delivery and if yes, was it okay with you? I for one am okay with that, but recognize the validity of that particular criticism.

I've never heard about the AVTAK=Dirty Harry, or the Man From Atlantis one, though the LTK one is valid considering that there were already several cartel-themed treatments preceding LTK that were mainstream, like Miami Vice as you said, Tequilla Sunrise, Scarface, etc., considering one of the boasting points of the series is that it inspired other genres and not the other way around (reminds me of the undeniable Bourne influence on the reboot).

chrisisall

superado wrote:

or his reaction after Aki dies...which was practically non-existant. Now the question is, can you tell if there's an obvious absence of sincerity in his delivery and if yes, was it okay with you? I for one am okay with that, but recognize the validity of that particular criticism.

Connery's YOLT Bond was getting jaded & world weary IMO (a parallel to Connery himself in the role, heh)- by then he EXPECTED to lose friends & lovers to the insidious game. His scene with Helga was PERFECTLY played. Tired of it all, his heart not into it any more... the great precursor to the Bond in OHMSS.
When viewed this way, YOLT is reasonably flawless, from a Connery performance POV. No?

ZorinIndustries

AVTAK is bad because Roger Moore is too old!

Probably the most illogical statement I've ever heard. Setting, plot, characterization, score, acting, all incredible. Even Roger Moore did a great job, regardless of his age.

raptors_887

When people start nitpicking about the plot holes in Skyfall like they've never seen any of the other 22 Bond movies before. Its not meant to be taken 100% seriously but people expect the new Bond films to be perfect while giving a pass to the older movies.

Jimmy Bond

chrisisall wrote:

DAF- It's the worst Bond movie ever. Oh, so, like, NSNA can be pretty dopey in places & TSWLM can be loaded with gags, and MR can have Jaws finding love in space, but DAF is THE WORST? Gimme a break. )

I'm sorry, but... No. All of those are better films than DAF, which after 20 solid minutes just completely gives up and decdes its a send-up to Bond, rather a continuation of the series. It IS the worst Bond film of that decade, because the villain is the most unthreatening in the entire Connery run, the entire decade and as far as Blofelds go, he's just a failure (not the actor's fault, for sure). The scheme is moronic, the direction is stiff and the overall lets-go-the-Goldfinger-route-only-dopier feel is everpresent. The only real highlight is the Peter Franks fight, and after that it just collapses.

ausbondfan

ZorinIndustries wrote:

AVTAK is bad because Roger Moore is too old!

Probably the most illogical statement I've ever heard. Setting, plot, characterization, score, acting, all incredible. Even Roger Moore did a great job, regardless of his age.

I read this one a lot. I really enjoyed AVTAK and thought it was one of the better Moore films. I think him being considerably older isn't a massive deal granted late 50's Roger Moore getting into bed with 30 year old Tanya Roberts is a tad unrealistic the majority of the film is fine with him being older.

Jarvio

ZorinIndustries wrote:

AVTAK is bad because Roger Moore is too old!

Probably the most illogical statement I've ever heard. Setting, plot, characterization, score, acting, all incredible. Even Roger Moore did a great job, regardless of his age.

I completely agree. But I'm sure you all knew I would -{

Agent Sidewinder

Goldfinger: Bond does nothing in it.

Well, except for talking Goldfinger into keeping him alive, seducing Pussy Galore, defeating Oddjob and smashing open the bomb, etc. Lazy git....why does MI6 keep him around? My grandmother could've done that in her sleep.

Firemass

Dalkowski110 wrote:

4) Octopussy was totally ruined by the clown suit. Although the Tarzan yell and "Sit!" were pretty painful, the irony is how straight Moore plays it; even being on the verge of losing it.

In general the criticism that Moore played the role for laughs is totally off the mark. I'm not a fan of the clown costume, but it shows that even in the weirdest situations Moore still plays it straight.

chrisisall

Jimmy Bond wrote:

It IS the worst Bond film of that decade

Ummm, MR is of that decade... 8-)

Moore Than

Firemass wrote:

Dalkowski110 wrote:

4) Octopussy was totally ruined by the clown suit. Although the Tarzan yell and "Sit!" were pretty painful, the irony is how straight Moore plays it; even being on the verge of losing it.

In general the criticism that Moore played the role for laughs is totally off the mark. I'm not a fan of the clown costume, but it shows that even in the weirdest situations Moore still plays it straight.

The scene in the circus with Bond disguised as a clown trying to convince the US General "there's a bomb in there", while at the same time trying to convince Octopussy that she has been betrayed is beautifully done. A definite high point for me. The clown suit fits in well with the plot/situation and it is played straight.

chrisisall

Moore Than wrote:

The scene in the circus with Bond disguised as a clown trying to convince the US General "there's a bomb in there", while at the same time trying to convince Octopussy that she has been betrayed is beautifully done. A definite high point for me. The clown suit fits in well with the plot/situation and it is played straight.

I'd argue that it was his finest moment as Bond. A tense & riveting scene and a major reason why I like OP even better than TSWLM.

Dalkowski110

Since we've turned onto this street, I've always been of the opinion that the moviemakers were going for "surreal" rather than "funny" with that entire sequence. It presses home that all those laughing kids we see in the stands will be literally vaporized if Bond fails to convince one of the base commander or Octopussy and just in general seems to stress the ignorance of the crowd until Octopussy fires the gun, the general issues the order to let Bond go, and we start hearing people panicking.

LastRatStanding

The most tense moment in any Roger Moore Bond film: Bond disarming the bomb in Octopussy. I dare anyone to prove me wrong!

chrisisall

Double-OH post!

chrisisall

Dalkowski110 wrote:

Since we've turned onto this street, I've always been of the opinion that the moviemakers were going for "surreal" rather than "funny" with that entire sequence.

Oh, absolutely! It doesn't even make me smirk- it's too INTENSE!!

Charmed & Dangerous

Agreed - brilliant scene, and the clown outfit, being s incongruous, only makes it more tense. One of Sir Roger's finest moments.

Blackleiter

Just saw a post stating that Bond 24 is going to "suck" - and it hasn't even been filmed yet! If that's not misguided I don't know what is! 8-)

Thunderpussy

Who posted that Derren Brown. )

Dutchfinger

TLD - Kara Milovy is an unattractive Bond girl.

Who ever came up with that? She has beautifull eyes, is a good actrice. Seems really innocent and in my oppinion she is attractive.

Peppermill

I agree, to an extent, that the Goldeneye score is not one of the greatest ever. It also has some awful parts (like during the chase between 007 and Xenia). However some parts, especially the ones in St. Petersburg and Cuba are very nice IMHO. The song during the end credits is the worst song ever in a Bond movie bar some.

Dutchfinger wrote:

TLD - Kara Milovy is an unattractive Bond girl.

Who ever came up with that? She has beautifull eyes, is a good actrice. Seems really innocent and in my oppinion she is attractive.

+1 But we might be biased Dutchfinger because she is half Dutch :007)

Thunderpussy

I've never found any of the leading ladies unattractive. -{
Hell, In the right light even Klebb and Bunt would do Me. )

Barbel

Thunderpussy wrote:

I've never found any of the leading ladies unattractive. -{
Hell, In the right light even Klebb and Bunt would do Me. )

You must give me the name of your oculist )

Thunderpussy

Hey don't knock it, If it works for
Wayne Rooney and Harry Styles.

Kent007

One of my mates was watching Skyfall the other day and kept sending me messages on Facebook complaining about how unrealistic the PTS was. I gave up replying, he obviously doesn't get it. It's not meant to be realistic, it's a Bond movie. We all watch it because we want to be him, if he rammed a motorbike into a wall and just fell over or died when smashing into a lake, that attraction would be lost haha

Nick37

As mentioned on the "Most Different Bond Movie" thread. 'LTK is like an episode of Miami Vice.' Not IMO. One plot point and spending 30 minutes of a two hour movie in Florida do not make a movie a Miami Vice clone.

My two cents on YOLT. I recently rewatched it, and I agree Connery gives a better performance than I initially gave him credit for. However, I don't fully give him a pass in the criticism department, and here's why.

I think you owe it to the fans to give 100 percent if they're going to come out and pay money for your franchise. If you're disillusioned, I get that. I've done things that I don't like to do, but I do them to the best of my ability. I just feel that in YOLT and DAF, Connery should have given us what he gave us in FRWL, GF, and TB.

I mean, I visited his IMDB page, and he was paid more for YOLT and DAF than he was collectively for all four previous Bond films combined. But IMO, his performances in those last two films weren't as good as the prior four performances. It just seems overall that he was paid more and gave less. But The performances aren't terrible and he's still a good Bond in both the later films.