No one else a fan of the QoS Gun barrel? I liked it even if it was 'too fast'. I actually kind of think many of the earlier ones are too slow in comparison. I'm a fan of the modern gun barrel (minus the bullet in DAD) and I dont mind if it's at the start of the end, but the start would be preferable.
Now, they only eat rat.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
I liked the QoS one too - but it's been way too long since I've watched that movie. I liked the idea of seeing the action behind the gun barrel in Casino Royale - just like Ian Fleming tried to show us the human being behind the gunbarrel in his James Bond novels. I too hate the bullet coming through in DAD.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
In my opinion, the last good gunbarrel was Roger Moore's 1st (used in LALD and TMWTGG) and it's been downhill since, so, no love lost.
So, you're a gun barrel traditionalist and die-hard then, superado.
Well, I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the cool factor of the sequence, which has been lost in the course of time. It's become obligatory and as someone posted earlier as an example, it's like DC has to go to the bathroom in how he's rushed to just be done with the act. Beginning with Bob Simmon's gunbarrel we see a seemingly unsuspecting and lackadaisical Bond who's in a killer's crosshairs so to speak (that, instead of a gunbarrel POV would actually make sense, but the gunbarrel is a nice stylistic touch, isn't it?) ...to suddenly turn the tables and sucker shoots the killer; that essence has been lost. To add to the coolness of the slower, older versions is the modern dance/jazz-like elegance in Bond's movement (Connery, TB onwards, Lazenby and said Moore's 1st version), which spoke so much about Bond's style that differentiated him from the typical gunman heroes of the screen. What else made Bond cool then? Compared to the typical movie shooter, he used a very small automatic pistol and seldom utilized machine guns. He wore finely tailored suits with an unobtrusive shoulder holster, regardless of the practical considerations of the physical demands of the job, he didn't verbally brutalize the villains in the way he interacted with them, etc., all that was part of the package of Classic Bond, including the gunbarrel.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
we see a seemingly unsuspecting and lackadaisical Bond who's in a killer's crosshairs so to speak to suddenly turn the tables and sucker shoots the killer; that essence has been lost.
As seen in the classic Moonraker phesant hunting scene. "You missed Mr. Bond" "Did I?"
That was probably the closest reenactment of the gunbarrel sequence as live action.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
In my opinion, the last good gunbarrel was Roger Moore's 1st (used in LALD and TMWTGG) and it's been downhill since, so, no love lost.
So, you're a gun barrel traditionalist and die-hard then, superado.
Well, I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the cool factor of the sequence, which has been lost in the course of time. It's become obligatory and as someone posted earlier as an example, it's like DC has to go to the bathroom in how he's rushed to just be done with the act. Beginning with Bob Simmon's gunbarrel we see a seemingly unsuspecting and lackadaisical Bond who's in a killer's crosshairs so to speak (that, instead of a gunbarrel POV would actually make sense, but the gunbarrel is a nice stylistic touch, isn't it?) ...to suddenly turn the tables and sucker shoots the killer; that essence has been lost. To add to the coolness of the slower, older versions is the modern dance/jazz-like elegance in Bond's movement (Connery, TB onwards, Lazenby and said Moore's 1st version), which spoke so much about Bond's style that differentiated him from the typical gunman heroes of the screen. What else made Bond cool then? Compared to the typical movie shooter, he used a very small automatic pistol and seldom utilized machine guns. He wore finely tailored suits with an unobtrusive shoulder holster, regardless of the practical considerations of the physical demands of the job, he didn't verbally brutalize the villains in the way he interacted with them, etc., all that was part of the package of Classic Bond, including the gunbarrel.
Great points for your argument there, superado. The Brosnan era did away with the seldom used machine guns part - the amount of firepower on display from GE and TND onwards is truly shocking. Thankfully this Terminator Bond era seems to be over now.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
Great points for youyr argument there, superado. The Brosnan era did away with the seldom used machine guns part - the amount of firepower on display from GE and TND onwards is truly shocking. Thankfully this Terminator Bond era seems to be over now.
I do need to confess though that in a cathartic way, I enjoyed the excesses of the use of SMG's in GE. maybe because of a combination of it being unprecedented (if you don't count Bond's brief use of these in TSWLM and TLD), Bond's long absence from the action movie scene while Bruce and Arnold took center stage and the fact that he took on lots and lots of Russian troopers in their own territory. It then felt overdone one film too many when TND came along though there was a return to the single pistol defence in the Hamburg scene.
With your Terminator reference, that's one I actually remember being said about DC's first outing in CR, though the excesses did begin with PB. However, I think though that the "elegant," minimalist days of Bond are over and with the tsunami of today's high-octane action movies there's no way but forward and though part of the iconography of DC's Bond has him wielding an HK SMG, there's at least the restraint and even experimentation with little Bond-used weaponry like a hunting shotgun (last seen in AVTAK, I believe).
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
this is for the people who keep going on how M shouldn't have been a women first things first she is dead now that is over and secondly even in golden eye Bond didn't like that the new M was female
"You know what's great about you English Octopussy man I must seen that movie, Twice" -the simpsons
I would like to see the gun barrel sequence return to the beginning of the movie. For the first time in many years I am watching the movies in order and there is something iconic and exiting when those white dots scroll across the screen. The chance from CR onwards is not really necessary IMHO and does not give me the same feeling of anticipation.
Of course I wouldn’t let my judgment of the movies be influenced by where the gun barrel is. There are some ‘terrible’ movies with the sequence in the “right” place.
I would like to see the gun barrel sequence return to the beginning of the movie. For the first time in many years I am watching the movies in order and there is something iconic and exiting when those white dots scroll across the screen. The chance from CR onwards is not really necessary IMHO and does not give me the same feeling of anticipation.
Of course I wouldn’t let my judgment of the movies be influenced by where the gun barrel is. There are some ‘terrible’ movies with the sequence in the “right” place.
I agree! I am picking up the Bond films on Blu Ray, and haven't watched them in a while (the older ones, at least). The gunbarrel is so iconic and when a Bond film starts out with that blaring "BA DUM... dummm.. BA DUM... dummm... DA DA DA DA DAAAAH" and those white dots roll across, it's signalling that you are in for an adventure. It gets the heart beating a bit faster and sets Bond movies apart from the others.
Maybe the lack of it in the last few Bond films is why I don't feel like I'm watching a Bond movie. Some may feel it's trivial, but for me, it's an intregal part of a Bond film and rightfully needs to be at the start.
Gun barrel - back to the beginning. Absolutely!
Also, I understand Barbara Broccoli wanting to shake up the series. She did that with CR. Got it. Well done. But do you remember, at the very end of CR, with the last shot of Bond, we FINALLY get to hear the theme. The whole film felt devoid without it, and at that point I felt - aahhhhh - we're back in action. But no - the sense of shaking things up perpetually seems to have stuck. Where is the guitar into the main theme? Where is 'Bond Back in Action'? Where is anything Barry? There are quite a few cues from the better films that have been left behind for, I think, a reason that has now been fulfilled. Let's get back in the groove!
The scent smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. Then the soul-erosion produced by high gambling - a compost of greed and fear and nervous tension - becomes unbearable and the senses awake and revolt from it.
My vote has always been for the gun barrel sequence to be at the beginning, to announce Bond's presence with authority and the beginning of another Bond adventure.
It's hard to believe it's been nearly 15 years since we've had a proper, classic gun barrel sequence (TWINE, 1999).
I don't really have a problem where the gun barrel scene is and I will tell you why....every actor who has played Bond has had their way of doing this scene, you can see across all 23 films that no two actors do theirs exactly the same. So maybe Daniel Craig's trait is it being at the end, with the exception of Casino Royale of course.
Connery has his hat and the leap as he turns, Lazenby got down on one knee as he turned, Moore crouched as he turned, Dalton I don't remember actually, Brosnan had a bolt up-right turn, and Craig's is at the end with a slightly similar motion to Brosnan's.
I liked QoS and SF better than Royale's because even though they are at the end, they are still the FULL gun barrel scene as instead of being half done in CR. I would rather have it be at the end and be the full thing than be at the start and be like CR's.
The only things I don't like about QoS and SF gun barrel scenes are QoS was too CGI, it looked like it belonged in a Bond video game rather than the movie, SF was a little over exposed for me.
1, GE 2, CR 3, SF 4, TWINE 5, Spectre 6, TMWTGG 7, DAD 8, LALD 9, AVTAK 10, LTK 11, Octopussy 12, Moonraker 13, TLD 14, GF 15, QOS 16, Tomorrow 17, FYEO 18. TSWLM Not seen much: Dr. No, Russia, Thunderball, Twice, Majesty.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
edited June 2013
I must admit, I have always loved the gun barrel sequence in the traditional sense, the dots I interpreted as a spot light tracking Bond.
I also loved the intigrated aproach used in CR-06, creating a burst of red that segues Bond's memories of the bathroom fight into the scarletand noire title sequence, while at the same time the final gun shot punches in the title song. Very different in a cool creative way.
Does it look odd having the barrel as a closing motif? Yes, because we all see it as a symbol of the start. However I'd prefer to have it as a salute to the audience with the 'James Bond will return' declaration than not at all.
The QoS one did habe the bursting bladder look about it though. Poor man!
As to those giving Ms Broccolli or Mr Wilson a hard time, I simply say if you think you can do better, please try! I certainty would not want be responsible for the future of the most popular, longest running, financially sucessful, critically aclaimed film series in the world!
All forms of art have to experiment and dabble to evolve. The Bond films have to do this while meeting expectations and keeping ahead of the competition. - Mission I and Bourne are still contendors at present, xXx seems to have died. I want traditional elemets I love in Bond, but I am curious for the new too. - The new has kept me watching since I was 8!
I have only read couple of Mr Fleming's books, as well as the short stories. I enjoyed them, but they are very much of the post war period in which they were written. The Bond films had to do their own thing in order to survive. Dame Judi's Ms, Villiers, the different Felix's and both Q's show that evolution I was talking about. Plus of course the things that didn't work - Charles Grays Blofeld, Sherriff Pepper, the Uber tech of DAD, and QoS editing!
The postion of the gun barrel is a small element in the overall mix.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Well said Thunderbird 2 -{ I know some feel very strongly about it, but
it is just an element and so far it hasn't spoilt my enjoyment of the new
films.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I'd like it put back at the opening of the film...it announces "This is a James Bond Movie Aventure" and always gets me wound up for what's to follow...
There's nothing exciting about it being "tacked on" at the end.
"She likes you, I can see it."
"You must give me the name of your oculist."
Wow that reminds me of how awesome the Bond movies used to be before they started..it was that gap of silence before the Gun barrel. In the 80's when MGM took over United Artists it would be the lion roar then silence with a United Artists Presents tag on the screen would build up excitement.
I guess I would like it at the start, but it really hasn't effected by viewing of the movie. I actually loved it at the end of Skyfall as a commemoration of 50 years of Bond. I thought that was quite poignant.
I want to start this by saying that i love the gunbarrel and that it is a splendid way to start a Bond-movie.
BUT, it isn't a dealbreaker for me. A non-existent gunbarrel in the beginning doesen't make or break a Bond-film. Sure, both QoS and SF could've start with one but these two films have both very good first shots!
One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Comments
Well, I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the cool factor of the sequence, which has been lost in the course of time. It's become obligatory and as someone posted earlier as an example, it's like DC has to go to the bathroom in how he's rushed to just be done with the act. Beginning with Bob Simmon's gunbarrel we see a seemingly unsuspecting and lackadaisical Bond who's in a killer's crosshairs so to speak (that, instead of a gunbarrel POV would actually make sense, but the gunbarrel is a nice stylistic touch, isn't it?) ...to suddenly turn the tables and sucker shoots the killer; that essence has been lost. To add to the coolness of the slower, older versions is the modern dance/jazz-like elegance in Bond's movement (Connery, TB onwards, Lazenby and said Moore's 1st version), which spoke so much about Bond's style that differentiated him from the typical gunman heroes of the screen. What else made Bond cool then? Compared to the typical movie shooter, he used a very small automatic pistol and seldom utilized machine guns. He wore finely tailored suits with an unobtrusive shoulder holster, regardless of the practical considerations of the physical demands of the job, he didn't verbally brutalize the villains in the way he interacted with them, etc., all that was part of the package of Classic Bond, including the gunbarrel.
As seen in the classic Moonraker phesant hunting scene. "You missed Mr. Bond" "Did I?"
That was probably the closest reenactment of the gunbarrel sequence as live action.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Great points for your argument there, superado. The Brosnan era did away with the seldom used machine guns part - the amount of firepower on display from GE and TND onwards is truly shocking. Thankfully this Terminator Bond era seems to be over now.
I do need to confess though that in a cathartic way, I enjoyed the excesses of the use of SMG's in GE. maybe because of a combination of it being unprecedented (if you don't count Bond's brief use of these in TSWLM and TLD), Bond's long absence from the action movie scene while Bruce and Arnold took center stage and the fact that he took on lots and lots of Russian troopers in their own territory. It then felt overdone one film too many when TND came along though there was a return to the single pistol defence in the Hamburg scene.
With your Terminator reference, that's one I actually remember being said about DC's first outing in CR, though the excesses did begin with PB. However, I think though that the "elegant," minimalist days of Bond are over and with the tsunami of today's high-octane action movies there's no way but forward and though part of the iconography of DC's Bond has him wielding an HK SMG, there's at least the restraint and even experimentation with little Bond-used weaponry like a hunting shotgun (last seen in AVTAK, I believe).
Of course I wouldn’t let my judgment of the movies be influenced by where the gun barrel is. There are some ‘terrible’ movies with the sequence in the “right” place.
I agree! I am picking up the Bond films on Blu Ray, and haven't watched them in a while (the older ones, at least). The gunbarrel is so iconic and when a Bond film starts out with that blaring "BA DUM... dummm.. BA DUM... dummm... DA DA DA DA DAAAAH" and those white dots roll across, it's signalling that you are in for an adventure. It gets the heart beating a bit faster and sets Bond movies apart from the others.
Maybe the lack of it in the last few Bond films is why I don't feel like I'm watching a Bond movie. Some may feel it's trivial, but for me, it's an intregal part of a Bond film and rightfully needs to be at the start.
Also, I understand Barbara Broccoli wanting to shake up the series. She did that with CR. Got it. Well done. But do you remember, at the very end of CR, with the last shot of Bond, we FINALLY get to hear the theme. The whole film felt devoid without it, and at that point I felt - aahhhhh - we're back in action. But no - the sense of shaking things up perpetually seems to have stuck. Where is the guitar into the main theme? Where is 'Bond Back in Action'? Where is anything Barry? There are quite a few cues from the better films that have been left behind for, I think, a reason that has now been fulfilled. Let's get back in the groove!
It's hard to believe it's been nearly 15 years since we've had a proper, classic gun barrel sequence (TWINE, 1999).
I say bring it back!
Connery has his hat and the leap as he turns, Lazenby got down on one knee as he turned, Moore crouched as he turned, Dalton I don't remember actually, Brosnan had a bolt up-right turn, and Craig's is at the end with a slightly similar motion to Brosnan's.
I liked QoS and SF better than Royale's because even though they are at the end, they are still the FULL gun barrel scene as instead of being half done in CR. I would rather have it be at the end and be the full thing than be at the start and be like CR's.
The only things I don't like about QoS and SF gun barrel scenes are QoS was too CGI, it looked like it belonged in a Bond video game rather than the movie, SF was a little over exposed for me.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
I also loved the intigrated aproach used in CR-06, creating a burst of red that segues Bond's memories of the bathroom fight into the scarletand noire title sequence, while at the same time the final gun shot punches in the title song. Very different in a cool creative way.
Does it look odd having the barrel as a closing motif? Yes, because we all see it as a symbol of the start. However I'd prefer to have it as a salute to the audience with the 'James Bond will return' declaration than not at all.
The QoS one did habe the bursting bladder look about it though. Poor man!
As to those giving Ms Broccolli or Mr Wilson a hard time, I simply say if you think you can do better, please try! I certainty would not want be responsible for the future of the most popular, longest running, financially sucessful, critically aclaimed film series in the world!
All forms of art have to experiment and dabble to evolve. The Bond films have to do this while meeting expectations and keeping ahead of the competition. - Mission I and Bourne are still contendors at present, xXx seems to have died. I want traditional elemets I love in Bond, but I am curious for the new too. - The new has kept me watching since I was 8!
I have only read couple of Mr Fleming's books, as well as the short stories. I enjoyed them, but they are very much of the post war period in which they were written. The Bond films had to do their own thing in order to survive. Dame Judi's Ms, Villiers, the different Felix's and both Q's show that evolution I was talking about. Plus of course the things that didn't work - Charles Grays Blofeld, Sherriff Pepper, the Uber tech of DAD, and QoS editing!
The postion of the gun barrel is a small element in the overall mix.
it is just an element and so far it hasn't spoilt my enjoyment of the new
films.
There's nothing exciting about it being "tacked on" at the end.
"You must give me the name of your oculist."
BUT, it isn't a dealbreaker for me. A non-existent gunbarrel in the beginning doesen't make or break a Bond-film. Sure, both QoS and SF could've start with one but these two films have both very good first shots!