Well, actually, they did need to deconstruct Bond, because over the 50 years of films they went from Dr. No where he was really a spy without gadgets to a superhero a la Batman with unbelievable gadgets including an invisible car (were they going to give him an invisible plane next like Wonder Woman?) and where he went
from getting beat up by Dr. No's henchmen and having to crawl in dirty clothes through
a ventilation shaft like Bruce Willis in Die Hard to running through armies of soldiers
in his undamaged Italian suits firing away with machine guns and repelling across
rooms on a wire shot from his belt buckle! The series and the character needed to be
stripped of all those layers of cartoonish spackle back to Fleming's original spy and then
layered back up with realistic, modern plots. As much as I enjoy some of the visual spectacle of some of the extremes - YOLT, MR, TSWLM, etc., I personally don't want to
ever see those again. I hope they'll leave those things to the DC comics films and keep Fleming's original ordinary spy for all the future films.
Well, actually, they did need to deconstruct Bond, because over the 50 years of films they went from Dr. No where he was really a spy without gadgets to a superhero a la Batman with unbelievable gadgets including an invisible car (were they going to give him an invisible plane next like Wonder Woman?) and where he went
from getting beat up by Dr. No's henchmen and having to crawl in dirty clothes through
a ventilation shaft like Bruce Willis in Die Hard to running through armies of soldiers
in his undamaged Italian suits firing away with machine guns and repelling across
rooms on a wire shot from his belt buckle! The series and the character needed to be
stripped of all those layers of cartoonish spackle back to Fleming's original spy and then
layered back up with realistic, modern plots. As much as I enjoy some of the visual spectacle of some of the extremes - YOLT, MR, TSWLM, etc., I personally don't want to
ever see those again. I hope they'll leave those things to the DC comics films and keep Fleming's original ordinary spy for all the future films.
To an extent this is true... however, Skyfall want to far in stripping out some of the more believable and fun gadgets while also chaning up the character a little too much. Instead of Fleming's conflicted Bond struggling with who he is but still finding meaning and not always wallowing in self pity... we get a mix of Nolan's Batman and the gritty nature of The Departed and suddenly this is really no longer a Bond film in my eyes. It took Dalton's formula and part of the formula int he first two Craig film's and decided "if x is good... a thousand times it is better!". And we get Skyfall... which has none of the fun silliness that can make MR or DAD at least a fun watch.
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
Instead of Fleming's conflicted Bond struggling with who he is but still finding meaning and not always wallowing in self pity... we get a mix of Nolan's Batman and the gritty nature of The Departed and suddenly this is really no longer a Bond film in my eyes. It took Dalton's formula and part of the formula int he first two Craig film's and decided "if x is good... a thousand times it is better!". And we get Skyfall... which has none of the fun silliness that can make MR or DAD at least a fun watch.
Look, none of us are even going to live long enough to see a bunch of Bond films that suits our own personal tastes. Just be glad that the "Here's to us" level of garbage will likely not be revisited again in our lifetimes! )
Instead of Fleming's conflicted Bond struggling with who he is but still finding meaning and not always wallowing in self pity... we get a mix of Nolan's Batman and the gritty nature of The Departed and suddenly this is really no longer a Bond film in my eyes. It took Dalton's formula and part of the formula int he first two Craig film's and decided "if x is good... a thousand times it is better!". And we get Skyfall... which has none of the fun silliness that can make MR or DAD at least a fun watch.
Look, none of us are even going to live long enough to see a bunch of Bond films that suits our own personal tastes. Just be glad that the "Here's to us" level of garbage will likely not be revisited again in our lifetimes! )
I hope not... I know not every Bond is for every person all the time. I was just disappointed they went so unBond like for it. I mean, as silly as MR can get, I don't doubt I'm watching a Bond film. Skyfall had really nothing that the series has become known for. Hopefully it's a one off, but given how much people seemingly loved it... I'm worried I'll have to wait a decade before we draw back from this kind of film.
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
I hope not... I know not every Bond is for every person all the time. I was just disappointed they went so unBond like for it. I mean, as silly as MR can get, I don't doubt I'm watching a Bond film.
I'd choose Skyfall over Moonraker any day of the week.
But then I'd choose The Man With The Golden Gun over Skyfall as well.
And You Only Live Twice over them.
And The Living Daylights over it....
My point is, we all have our preferences, and thank goodness there are Bonds for every mood and/or taste!
Instead of Fleming's conflicted Bond struggling with who he is but still finding meaning and not always wallowing in self pity... we get a mix of Nolan's Batman and the gritty nature of The Departed and suddenly this is really no longer a Bond film in my eyes. It took Dalton's formula and part of the formula int he first two Craig film's and decided "if x is good... a thousand times it is better!". And we get Skyfall... which has none of the fun silliness that can make MR or DAD at least a fun watch.
Look, none of us are even going to live long enough to see a bunch of Bond films that suits our own personal tastes. Just be glad that the "Here's to us" level of garbage will likely not be revisited again in our lifetimes! )
I hope not... I know not every Bond is for every person all the time. I was just disappointed they went so unBond like for it. I mean, as silly as MR can get, I don't doubt I'm watching a Bond film.
I'd choose Skyfall over Moonraker any day of the week.
But then I'd choose The Man With The Golden Gun over Skyfall as well.
And You Only Live Twice over them.
And The Living Daylights over it....
My point is, we all have our preferences, and thank goodness there are Bonds for every mood and/or taste!
I just get worried they'll be influenced by the money and critical adoration for Skyfall and do more of those. If it is more of a one off... then I'll come to accept it eventually. I might never love it though
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
Another Bond film of the caliber of Skyfall would be fine with me.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. But I am one of the few to rate it near the bottom of Bond films so no shock
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
Skyfall had really nothing that the series has become known for. Hopefully it's a one off, but given how much people seemingly loved it... I'm worried I'll have to wait a decade before we draw back from this kind of film.
This was the first time I felt like I was watching a Bond film since Die Another Day.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
First of all, don't get me wrong, I loved Skyfall, I saw it multiple times at the Cinema and even more since it was released on DVD but there has been something on my mind about the whole thing, I will try to make as much sense of it as possible as I would love to hear other peoples views on it, whether they are fans of the film or not. I apologize if I end up babbling on making little sense.
So Casino Royale ended up 'rebooting' (hate that term) the franchise, the producer's wanted to start again with Ian Fleming's first Bond story and reintroduce our beloved character and bring him into the 21st century, they wanted a more modern, less 'fantastical', realistic and human Bond. All of this is fine, but what I do not understand is this, since Casino Royale the direction the Bond franchise was taken in has received ALOT of praise by fans and critics alike, but in each of Daniel Craig's Bond films there has always been the claim that this is how Bond becomes Bond, e.g.
Casino Royale: This is how Bond becomes 007, gets his license to kill, becomes the character we know and love, even going as far as to give the gunbarrel sequence a backstory (a nice touch btw)
Quantum of Solace: OK, actually this is the film where Bond becomes the character you know and love (after he gets his revenge for Vespa despite the fact that he used the 'The bitch is dead' line to emphasize the fact that he doesn't care any more and has become cold and emotionless towards it all.
Skyfall: Actually, forget all that, this is where we find out what Bond is about and how he becomes who he is through a metaphorical 'rebirth' process after a job gone wrong, this is where we meet Q and Moneypenny and get a proper introduction of a new M for the first time then getting a classic 'Ms Office' scene then a gunbarrel sequence thus bringing everything full circle and showing us that Bond is definitely back...
I guess my question is what exactly are the producers doing? I thought they wanted this new, more down to earth Bond but then Skyfall comes along and all they talk about is bringing 'Classic Bond' back, are they bored of the reboot series and want to bring back some normality for the series or was it all just a gimmick for the 50th Anniversary, will they disregard all of the classic elements from Skyfall in the next installment, i.e. Car with weapons and gadgets, Classic M's office, over the top villains? I think personally I want classic Bond back, but I think that they should choose one direction and stick to it, I mean how many times can they re-introduce Daniel Craig as Bond? As in my eyes he hasn't actually had a proper stand-alone Bond film yet that doesn't focus on Bond's character development.
I understand that I may just be reading into this too much but surely I am not the only person who holds the same view?
The producers are running out of ideas, so they have to copy from Superhero movies.
"And if I told you that I'm from the Ministry of Defence?" James Bond - The Property of a Lady
The producers are running out of ideas, so they have to copy from Superhero movies.
Why not just copy from LTK & TLD? )
Sadly because when they did with QoS many people hated it for some reason...
Top Ten Bond - 10:Goldfinger 9:Thunderball 8:The Spy who Loved Me 7:For Your Eyes Only 6: Casino Royale 5:The Man with the Golden Gun 4:Quantum of Solace 3:Licence to Kill 2:Goldeneye 1:The Living Daylights
As someone who rates CR and QoS in my personal top 5-6 Bond movies, I just don't at all see a connection between the Bond of CR/QoS and the Bond in Skyfall.
I'm hoping that the next Bond movie will just be a straightforward realistic/down-to-earth style Bond movie that balances the somewhat jovial Bond of CR and the grim Bond of QoS into the balanced approach of Dalton/early Connery.
I was hoping that would have taken place in Skyfall, but instead we got that indecipherable mess, in terms of when Skyfall takes place in the larger Bond timeline.
Hmm, watched Bourne Supremacy or part of it last night and there's a great fight scene early on, winds up with an exploding toaster. It's like the guy Bond kills in QoS in Haiti, but not quite as distasteful, it pans away at the key moment. It's exciting stuff but sort of tactful too, and nothing like that imo in the Craig era. Why is it someone else can come in an do this stuff with no record of having done action before, but no Bond director can quite manage it?
As someone who rates CR and QoS in my personal top 5-6 Bond movies
QoS within the top 6?! Please tell me it's at least number 6! The bad guy was a bloke called Dominic Greene (DOMINIC GREENE!?) and his dastardly plot was to steal most of the water (not even all of it, MOST of it) from a third world country so that he could sell it back at a small profit. The biggest deformity he had was bad taste in shirts.
There really is no accounting for taste!
JediM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
As someone who rates CR and QoS in my personal top 5-6 Bond movies
QoS within the top 6?! Please tell me it's at least number 6! The bad guy was a bloke called Dominic Greene (DOMINIC GREENE!?) and his dastardly plot was to steal most of the water (not even all of it, MOST of it) from a third world country so that he could sell it back at a small profit. The biggest deformity he had was bad taste in shirts.
There really is no accounting for taste!
JediM
Well, if not for the villain, the film would probably be higher.
Comments
Yes indeed! -{
To an extent this is true... however, Skyfall want to far in stripping out some of the more believable and fun gadgets while also chaning up the character a little too much. Instead of Fleming's conflicted Bond struggling with who he is but still finding meaning and not always wallowing in self pity... we get a mix of Nolan's Batman and the gritty nature of The Departed and suddenly this is really no longer a Bond film in my eyes. It took Dalton's formula and part of the formula int he first two Craig film's and decided "if x is good... a thousand times it is better!". And we get Skyfall... which has none of the fun silliness that can make MR or DAD at least a fun watch.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I hope not... I know not every Bond is for every person all the time. I was just disappointed they went so unBond like for it. I mean, as silly as MR can get, I don't doubt I'm watching a Bond film. Skyfall had really nothing that the series has become known for. Hopefully it's a one off, but given how much people seemingly loved it... I'm worried I'll have to wait a decade before we draw back from this kind of film.
But then I'd choose The Man With The Golden Gun over Skyfall as well.
And You Only Live Twice over them.
And The Living Daylights over it....
My point is, we all have our preferences, and thank goodness there are Bonds for every mood and/or taste!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I just get worried they'll be influenced by the money and critical adoration for Skyfall and do more of those. If it is more of a one off... then I'll come to accept it eventually. I might never love it though
We'll just have to agree to disagree. But I am one of the few to rate it near the bottom of Bond films so no shock
This was the first time I felt like I was watching a Bond film since Die Another Day.
The producers are running out of ideas, so they have to copy from Superhero movies.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Sadly because when they did with QoS many people hated it for some reason...
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'm hoping that the next Bond movie will just be a straightforward realistic/down-to-earth style Bond movie that balances the somewhat jovial Bond of CR and the grim Bond of QoS into the balanced approach of Dalton/early Connery.
I was hoping that would have taken place in Skyfall, but instead we got that indecipherable mess, in terms of when Skyfall takes place in the larger Bond timeline.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
QoS within the top 6?! Please tell me it's at least number 6! The bad guy was a bloke called Dominic Greene (DOMINIC GREENE!?) and his dastardly plot was to steal most of the water (not even all of it, MOST of it) from a third world country so that he could sell it back at a small profit. The biggest deformity he had was bad taste in shirts.
There really is no accounting for taste!
JediM
Well, if not for the villain, the film would probably be higher.