Could Moore have made a Dark Revenge Film like LTK?

AlphaOmegaSin

I think he could of, if the Humour was toned down several Notches. What do you think?

Youknowthename

Not really, for two reasons:

- Moore was known as a lighthearted, comical Bond. You can't just turn that 180 degrees and expect to get away with that.
The 'coldest' kills he probably made was knocking Sandor off the roof in TSWLM, and Locke off the cliff in FYEO.

- Moore himself didn't like LTK, or at least its dark tone - it's in his 'Bond on Bond' book. So as an actor he probably wouldn't agree with the script.

Blackleiter

I share your opinion about this. I just can't see it working.

Youknowthename wrote:

Not really, for two reasons:

- Moore was known as a lighthearted, comical Bond. You can't just turn that 180 degrees and expect to get away with that.
The 'coldest' kills he probably made was knocking Sandor off the roof in TSWLM, and Locke off the cliff in FYEO.

- Moore himself didn't like LTK, or at least its dark tone - it's in his 'Bond on Bond' book. So as an actor he probably wouldn't agree with the script.

Silhouette Man

I supppose that there was also a revenge motive in FYEO when Blofeld is dropped down the chimney stack, but that it was done in a comical way, with a pithy remark a la the Sandor and Locque slayings.

superado

I don't think he would have been capable of being dour or going around with a grimmaced face like TD or DC, but if you watch him in The Wild Geese, I think he could have done a more ruthless and realistic Bond more than he did in FYEO. He is an actor after all and I think with proper motivation, he could have done it just as Michael Caine did in Get Carter.

Firemass

I kinda doubt it. That's why it's nice to have a few different actors portraying 007 each giving their own take.

Connery probably could have pulled it off, although I didn't care for his "angry Bond" in the DAF pre-title sequence.

Superado, I recently tried to watch The Wild Geese but had to turn it off about half way through. It was just unbearably bad. Moore had a few ruthless moments in The Sea Wolves including breaking an assassins neck and killing a woman in a similar fashion to TWINE's Elektra.

Blackleiter

I think Connery's "angry Bond" was displayed quite well in FRWL when he learned Kerim Bey had been killed.

Firemass wrote:

Connery probably could have pulled it off, although I didn't care for his "angry Bond" in the DAF pre-title sequence.

hehadlotsofguts

Moore can be ruthless at times with the Sandor and Loque killings and when he threatened to break Andrea Ander's arm to get information. Not sure if he can pull off being ruthless for an entire film.

Firemass

I tend to agree with M in Goldfinger when he tells Bond not to make it personal and Connery reluctantly agrees.

Le Samourai

I'd have loved to seen him try. I find it interesting when actors go against type.

Firemass

actually, Rog was fairly ruthless when he was interrogating General Orlov on the train. Then whirls around and shoots the surprised Russian guard in the head. That whole scene was on par with Dalton's near execution of General Pushkin.

raptors_887

I don't think so. He apparently didn't even want to do the scene in FYEO where he kicked the car off the cliff.

Thats probably my biggest problem with Moore is that his Bond is too light hearted which brings off the impression that he's not that big of a threat to his enemies.

Silhouette Man

Moore always said that from the works of Ian Fleming he was always inspired by the opening chapter of Goldfinger (1959) where Bond is ruminating on the nature of life and death after he killed the Mexican capungo with his bare hands in a hand-to-hand battle to the death. Moore always said that hev was inspired by the line that Bond did not like killing but that he did his paid duties well and professionally. Yo could certainly make the sustained argument that Roger Moore's entire reign was mostly inspired by this dictum from Fleming, that and the "soft life" opening chapter of Live and Let Die and parts of From Russia, with Love (1957) which explained his sauvity and preference for the finer things in life and life's luxuries. Make of all of that what you will - I personally believe it tells us a lot about Moore's unrecognised links back to portions of Ian Fleming's original literary creation.

Dalkowski110

Very astute observation, there, SILHOUETTE MAN. Because Moore's Bond is so different from Fleming's, it's often easy to forget that he really did have links to him. By the way, your avatar is awesome! Glad you ditched the "disco skull".

Silhouette Man

Dalkowski110 wrote:

Very astute observation, there, SILHOUETTE MAN. Because Moore's Bond is so different from Fleming's, it's often easy to forget that he really did have links to him. By the way, your avatar is awesome! Glad you ditched the "disco skull".

Oh, thanks Dalk. Yes, I'm planning a little something on my blog on Moore's toughness in the role of James Bond that will appear later down the line. I've committed myself to write some 50 articles on the literary and cinematic James Bond in the 2013-2014 period and perhaps beyond into 2015.

On the skull, yes the flashing green and pink skull really had to go. It was much too garish for a puritan such as myself to ever approve of. I did a search for suger skulls and this was the one picked - it has a LALD/Skyfall vibe and as I say in my signature skulls really are very "in" at the moment - you see them everywhere in everyday life. Glad you like it as much as I do. If you stand back from your compiter screen and kneel down you'll only see the two goggle eyes of the skull - another reason why I like this avatar so much. You'll have to get an avatar yourself soon - just search using Google Images for a "60x60 avatar (of your choice)" and then save the avatar onto your photos on your computer. Then all that you have to do is to upload the image on the Avatar page on your profile here on AJB.

DelicatessenInSteel

Yeah, He could do it but I wouldn't want to see it because it would come off way too vicious & cruel due to his general portrayal. Someone mentioned the Wild Geese where he shoots a guy in the head and forces someone else to eat a bag of bad heroin at gun point & that comes off way dark. Lazenby would also come off that way. With Connery, Dalton and then Brosnan its expected so no surprises there. I notice when Roger Moore is cruel, Like when he shoots Stromberg in the Balls twice then shoots him in the chest or the car kick off the cliff in FYEO or the excess use of force with Ms. Anders from MWTGG.

perdogg

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

I think he could of, if the Humour was toned down several Notches. What do you think?

The problem with Moore wasn't Moore, it was John Glen. I thought Moore did show his dark side in LALD and TMWTGG.

Higgins

perdogg wrote:

The problem with Moore wasn't Moore, it was John Glen. I thought Moore did show his dark side in LALD and TMWTGG.

well said and I agree completely.
However I am pretty sure, that Cubby would have risked a higher budget for such a Moore movie than he did with Dalton - particularly after the BO results from TLD.

Napoleon Plural

Essentially, Moore regarded his Bond as a joke, so almost deliberately sabotaged any serious aspect of the character, bar moments it seemed that cast him in a more sympathetic or vulnerable light, eg joking about Tracy by Triple X, coming out of the centrifuge machine, or having to admit that he killed Triple X's lover.

Any stuff where he has to be ruthless and kill, he doesn't really go for it unless it has a cool, dispassionate, cartoon-like vibe. Like blowing up a helicopter from his Lotus. -{

perdogg

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Essentially, Moore regarded his Bond as a joke, so almost deliberately sabotaged any serious aspect of the character, bar moments it seemed that cast him in a more sympathetic or vulnerable light, eg joking about Tracy by Triple X, coming out of the centrifuge machine, or having to admit that he killed Triple X's lover.

Any stuff where he has to be ruthless and kill, he doesn't really go for it unless it has a cool, dispassionate, cartoon-like vibe. Like blowing up a helicopter from his Lotus. -{

I disagree. I think a lot people fail to see the tree through the forest. If you strip away the outlandish plots in MR and TSWLM Moore actually provided a gritty and sober Bond who did not shy away from the seriousness of killing. For example the killing of Sandor and Stromberg were quite far from comical. The killing of Stromberg was reminiscent of the killing of Professor Dent in Dr No. The same with Locque in FYEO.

Firemass

perdogg wrote:

Moore actually provided a gritty and sober Bond who did not shy away from the seriousness of killing. For example the killing of Sandor and Stromberg were quite far from comical. The killing of Stromberg was reminiscent of the killing of Professor Dent in Dr No. The same with Locque in FYEO.

Correct in every detail. Fans of Roger Moore seem to understand this, yet his detractors claim that he played Bond as a joke.

Blackleiter

Firemass wrote:

perdogg wrote:

Moore actually provided a gritty and sober Bond who did not shy away from the seriousness of killing. For example the killing of Sandor and Stromberg were quite far from comical. The killing of Stromberg was reminiscent of the killing of Professor Dent in Dr No. The same with Locque in FYEO.

Correct in every detail. Fans of Roger Moore seem to understand this, yet his detractors claim that he played Bond as a joke.

I can't speak for others, but I have never found Moore to be convincing as a cold-blooded killer. In my opinion, Connery's demeanor, his voice and his methodical handling of his gun before and after the killing of Dent come across as much more somber and menancing than any assassination scene featuring Moore, including the killing of Sandor and Stromberg.

Thunderpussy

Perhaps R Moore is a method actor and all "Cold blooded Killers " are
infact stunningly polite Perfect English Gemtlemen. )

Blackleiter

Thunderpussy wrote:

Perhaps R Moore is a method actor and all "Cold blooded Killers " are
infact stunningly polite Perfect English Gemtlemen. )

I hadn't thought of that - good point! )

Thunderpussy

I know if I was about to be hacked to death, I'd hope
the chap was going to be well Mannered about it.

chitoryu12

perdogg wrote:

I disagree. I think a lot people fail to see the tree through the forest. If you strip away the outlandish plots in MR and TSWLM Moore actually provided a gritty and sober Bond who did not shy away from the seriousness of killing. For example the killing of Sandor and Stromberg were quite far from comical. The killing of Stromberg was reminiscent of the killing of Professor Dent in Dr No. The same with Locque in FYEO.

I think the killing of Stromberg really shows the "professional killer" side of Bond, and it was a tad unusual for the time. It's common for a shooting in a film, especially by a good guy, to be a simple one-shot deal. You get shot, you fall over (maybe with a look of surprise), you stop moving. This was especially common in previous decades, where most films meant for a general audience were downright clean in how they handled gunfights. Instead, Moore's Bond very coldly plugged Stromberg practically until he was out of ammo, with the target recoiling in agony each time.

As for Loque, that shows the "revenge" side. Loque's car was already on its way down the cliff, but Bond giving it that extra kick was a distinctly emotional move: it did nothing to kill or save him, but was essentially a premature "spit on the grave".

I think Moore, as an actor, could have done it. But I'm not sure audiences of the time would have responded properly to an actor known for more comical Bond films dropping the comedy and going right toward the dark side. The Craig films are darker than any previous film, especially with campy elements of the genre that were accepted by audiences in past decades being removed and removing all of the over-the-top unrealistic moments from the Brosnan films, and that shows an important part of the change: it took a new era of Bond. They had to basically reboot the series into a thriller, detached from the vast majority of the past Bond formula, and bring in a new actor to get audiences to stomach the change. FYEO was about as far as they could go for the dark side when turning Moore's Bond into a more serious take.

AlphaOmegaSin

chitoryu12 wrote:

perdogg wrote:

I disagree. I think a lot people fail to see the tree through the forest. If you strip away the outlandish plots in MR and TSWLM Moore actually provided a gritty and sober Bond who did not shy away from the seriousness of killing. For example the killing of Sandor and Stromberg were quite far from comical. The killing of Stromberg was reminiscent of the killing of Professor Dent in Dr No. The same with Locque in FYEO.

I think the killing of Stromberg really shows the "professional killer" side of Bond, and it was a tad unusual for the time. It's common for a shooting in a film, especially by a good guy, to be a simple one-shot deal. You get shot, you fall over (maybe with a look of surprise), you stop moving. This was especially common in previous decades, where most films meant for a general audience were downright clean in how they handled gunfights. Instead, Moore's Bond very coldly plugged Stromberg practically until he was out of ammo, with the target recoiling in agony each time.

As for Loque, that shows the "revenge" side. Loque's car was already on its way down the cliff, but Bond giving it that extra kick was a distinctly emotional move: it did nothing to kill or save him, but was essentially a premature "spit on the grave".

I think Moore, as an actor, could have done it. But I'm not sure audiences of the time would have responded properly to an actor known for more comical Bond films dropping the comedy and going right toward the dark side. The Craig films are darker than any previous film, especially with campy elements of the genre that were accepted by audiences in past decades being removed and removing all of the over-the-top unrealistic moments from the Brosnan films, and that shows an important part of the change: it took a new era of Bond. They had to basically reboot the series into a thriller, detached from the vast majority of the past Bond formula, and bring in a new actor to get audiences to stomach the change. FYEO was about as far as they could go for the dark side when turning Moore's Bond into a more serious take.

Stromberg had the worst Death of any Bond Villain.

Halcon

Thunderpussy wrote:

I know if I was about to be hacked to death, I'd hope
the chap was going to be well Mannered about it.

LOL!! )

Peppermill

I think he could. However, I do think he shouldn't have continued until 1989 :007) . Moore has quite a few serious scenes in his films that he played really well. Not only some cold blooded killings mentioned before but also some very good scenes with the Bond ladies or other actors.

I remember Roger Moore saying that where Connery's humor came from left field his own humor was right in your face. Maybe that is why most people refer to Moore as the funny Bond, there has always been humor in Bond movies, some more than others but even in the first movie Connery had some funny lines and moments. Humor has always been part of the 007 movies and one of the movies that really shows that is TLD. IMHO some lines by Dalton seem really out of place because he is so serious. They would have worked with Moore, but Dalton didn't seem like the Bond that would use a oneliner.

So, yes, I do think Moore could have done it. What if FYEO was a revenge on Blofeld film. It started good with Bond at the grave of Tracy. Instead of just the PTS Blofeld could have been the main villain in the movie and 007 finally having his revenge on Blofeld (and EON on McGlory). FYEO was a pretty serious film so if I think of Bond in a revenge style movie like LTK I think FYEO is the best example of Moore's more serious side.

hehadlotsofguts

Peppermill wrote:

Dalton didn't seem like the Bond that would use a oneliner.

Dalton did use one-liners in his films. When he cuts the laces off his boot causing Necros to fall to his death.

"He got the boot!"

Firemass

Peppermill wrote:

They would have worked with Moore, but Dalton didn't seem like the Bond that would use a oneliner.

"He came to a dead end" har har...good one Dalton.

I believe what Peppermill was saying is that Tim didn't seem the type of Bond to say oneliners, but was forced to anyway by the EON producers. (with mixed results...)