Live And Let Die/Licence To Kill

Kent007Kent007 Posts: 338MI6 Agent
Hey,

I was reading LALD and came across the whole shark scene with Felix that is in Licence to Kill. I was just wondering why it wasn't included in the LALD film? Was it because it was seen as too graphic? :)
"You are about to wake when you dream that you are dreaming"

Comments

  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    Tom Mankiewicz's screenplay for LALD also left out the keelhauling climax which later appeared in FYEO. It was a tricky job, adapting Fleming's outdated and racially charged views (see http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/40883/ian-fleming-casual-racism/ and http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/40889/villain-and-henchmen-deaths-in-lald/ for more detail) and at the same time providing a script which suitably introduced Roger Moore to the role of 007 while simultaneously balancing some fairly dark subject matter (voodoo, drug addiction, etc) with a family-friendly 'A' certificate and incorporating ideas from the producers and director (not to mention the stuntmen!). In the commentary to the film he discusses some of this.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Yes, there's actually more of LALD in the LTK film thasn in the LALD fiilm, plus FYEO uses the keel-hauling sequence. As Barbel above notes, it was a tricky time to have a set of black villains in a film in the early 1970s. There are rumours that Bond 24 is to be a remake of sorts of LALD. See the article perdogg has posted in the Bond 24 sub-section here on AJB for more details. I do hope that the article is true! :)
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Kent007Kent007 Posts: 338MI6 Agent
    Thanks guys :) Thought as much, it's not hard to see why LALD was 8th film yet the 2nd book, it must've been difficult like you said to get the portrayal of the black villains to a suitable level for the time.
    I like Live and Let Die as a film and I'm enjoying the book, so I hope Bond 24 is a sort of remake, just without Sheriff Pepper
    "You are about to wake when you dream that you are dreaming"
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Kent007 wrote:
    Thanks guys :) Thought as much, it's not hard to see why LALD was 8th film yet the 2nd book, it must've been difficult like you said to get the portrayal of the black villains to a suitable level for the time.
    I like Live and Let Die as a film and I'm enjoying the book, so I hope Bond 24 is a sort of remake, just without Sheriff Pepper

    I'm hoping that it's a remake that focuses solely on the source novel for once, so no Sheriff Pepper there, thankfully. :)
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • RevelatorRevelator Posts: 604MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Tom Mankiewicz's screenplay for LALD also left out the keelhauling climax which later appeared in FYEO. It was a tricky job, adapting Fleming's outdated and racially charged views (...) and at the same time providing a script which suitably introduced Roger Moore to the role of 007 while simultaneously balancing some fairly dark subject matter (voodoo, drug addiction, etc) with a family-friendly 'A' certificate and incorporating ideas from the producers and director (not to mention the stuntmen!).

    And for what it's worth, I think Mankiewicz didn't succeed very well, though the film was a box office success. The drugs plot was inferior to the original story of Bloody Morgan's golden hoard (which is more exciting--shots of poppy plants or glittering piles of pirate treasure?), and despite Fleming's racial missteps, his version of Mr. Big is a much more impressive and more intellectual villain than the film's (the dual-identity nonsense doesn't help the latter). The only character who really benefited from the film was Baron Samedi. As for the keel-hauling, perhaps it was left out for budgetary reasons--after all, LALD was the second of the reduced-budget Bonds (this is evident in Kananga's sparse, poor-man's-Ken-Adam lair). Perhaps filming the keel-hauling and blowing up a yacht (even a large fake model one) was regarded as unfeasible.
    By the time of FYEO, the filmmakers had a bigger budget, thanks to Moonraker's grosses, and worked out a way to avoid blowing up the boat. And by the time they filmed LTK they realized what idiots they were for having neglected so much of LALD to begin with!
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Revelator wrote:
    Barbel wrote:
    Tom Mankiewicz's screenplay for LALD also left out the keelhauling climax which later appeared in FYEO. It was a tricky job, adapting Fleming's outdated and racially charged views (...) and at the same time providing a script which suitably introduced Roger Moore to the role of 007 while simultaneously balancing some fairly dark subject matter (voodoo, drug addiction, etc) with a family-friendly 'A' certificate and incorporating ideas from the producers and director (not to mention the stuntmen!).

    And for what it's worth, I think Mankiewicz didn't succeed very well, though the film was a box office success. The drugs plot was inferior to the original story of Bloody Morgan's golden hoard (which is more exciting--shots of poppy plants or glittering piles of pirate treasure?), and despite Fleming's racial missteps, his version of Mr. Big is a much more impressive and more intellectual villain than the film's (the dual-identity nonsense doesn't help the latter). The only character who really benefited from the film was Baron Samedi. As for the keel-hauling, perhaps it was left out for budgetary reasons--after all, LALD was the second of the reduced-budget Bonds (this is evident in Kananga's sparse, poor-man's-Ken-Adam lair). Perhaps filming the keel-hauling and blowing up a yacht (even a large fake model one) was regarded as unfeasible.
    By the time of FYEO, the filmmakers had a bigger budget, thanks to Moonraker's grosses, and worked out a way to avoid blowing up the boat. And by the time they filmed LTK they realized what idiots they were for having neglected so much of LALD to begin with!

    I think the reason that the keel-hauling sequence was not included in the film version of LALD was down to the fact that they didn't think that it was possible to film such a tricky scene from a technical point of view. Obviously, things had changed by the time of FYEO, less than ten years' later when they did film the scene, probably for the increased budget after MR as you point out so well above, Revelator. The novel had the ship The Secatur blowing up from a limpet mine rather than having the keel-hauling sequence happen, so one could even argue that actual keel-hauling did not occur in the original LALD novel at all, something that many commentators seem not to realise. But of course the germ of the keel-hauling scene was already there in the LALD novel. LALD spread across three different films, such was its breadth of scope and there is still much to adapt there, making a potential remake of LALD under a new title a very pleasing possibility, though I do doubt that it will ever happen, sadly. As you say, Mr Big was a much better villain in the novel than in the film version, where Mr Big was only the pretence of a gangster cover for the real villain, Dr Kananga, the Prime Minister of the small Caribbean island San Monique.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    Yes, the keel-hauling sequence was felt to be technically unfeasible at the time (solved by the time of FYEO). I totally agree that Fleming's Mr. Big was a more impressive villain than the film version, and that the treasure-hunting plot was more interesting than the drug-smuggling one.
    I stick by my assertion that the screenwriter had a tricky job which he pulled off, though with quibbles. The main fault with the film is the often flat direction and the emphasis on comedy.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Yes, the keel-hauling sequence was felt to be technically unfeasible at the time (solved by the time of FYEO). I totally agree that Fleming's Mr. Big was a more impressive villain than the film version, and that the treasure-hunting plot was more interesting than the drug-smuggling one.
    I stick by my assertion that the screenwriter had a tricky job which he pulled off, though with quibbles. The main fault with the film is the often flat direction and the emphasis on comedy.

    Yes, that's why a remake of LALD the novel would still work, as much of the novel actually remains unfilmed today in 2013, nearly 60 years after its publication in 1954. Idris Elba would be my choice as Mr Big.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    Updating it would be tricky, but if was updated the way CR was it could work.
    He could no longer be a SMERSH agent with his operation being a Soviet
    Fifth Column type affair. He would have to be affiliated with terrorists or perhaps the new Quantum group. The whole voodoo reference would also have to be changed as it no longer creates the fear it did at the time in the US. It probably still does to some extent in some small tribal communities in Haiti and Africa, but it would really be difficult to modernize its effect in today's American culture, where its used more to make money off of tourists than anything (the way palm readers and psychics do). Even the zombie thing was turned from its origins into fodder for horror films.Most of the scenes from the novel could still be done. Bond could still be put up in the same NY hotel since it's still there. The Harlem scene has totally changed since then, so I don't think having Mr. Big and the night club Bond and Leiter visit there would work now. It would have to be set in another area (perhaps an exclusive resort owned by Mr. Big somewhere in the Hamptons). It would also make more sense if Mr. Big's henchman and people in his organization were a mix of ethnic groups as opposed to only blacks - not to mention be more realistic. It is
    still tricky today to have a film where the villain is black and the hero is white, even if one is British and the other from another country. However, having blacks represented in the story as an equal part of the law enforcing effort to
    get Big (such as the FBI or NY detective contact being black) helps balance the negative that Big symbolizes. It would have to be shown that whatever his scheme is would be just as much a threat to blacks as to anyone else - for example he was using organization not only to smuggle drugs and guns internationally but to also obtain some hi tech military device, bio weapon or nuclear material or even getting hold of a nuclear warhead for a terrorist group or an African warlord. He could still be from Haiti, and even have his history of having had stolen money or goods that was supposed to go to Haitian disaster relief. Perhaps he could be using the Jamaican gangs similar to the Yardies or Shower Posse (or even try to be organizing them into one gang under him) to help succeed in his efforts. Bond could still go to Florida and then to Mr. Big's private island. It could be done...I just don't think it ever will be (at least in
    my lifetime). I can't see the producers wanting to remake any of the films in even the distant future, but I suppose anything can happen.
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