Philosophy 101 - What is a "James Bond" movie?

perdogg

I was thinking about my selection of MR ahead of many movies which some say are more worthy. This then begs the question, since my criteria of what a "James Bond" movie is differs from others. For example, I believe there has to be a certain amount of Fleming in the movie. This doesn't mean just copy here and there from the novels.

So the philosophical question I have for everyone, is what makes a Bond movie a Bond movie. Does being an EON production qualify? How much "Fleming' is required beyond the name?

Barbel

It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. I'd say it's about style rather than content; there have been many other films with similar plot elements, characters, etc, but they're not James Bond movies.

Peppermill

Wow, this is indeed a very interesting question because everyone of us will give a different answer! I loved Moonraker the first time I saw it. It was the first or second 007 movie I ever saw. I was on holiday and Moonraker was on the hotelmoviechannel and my 12 yo self and my friend thought it was the best thing ever. After seeing all the Bond movies many times over the years it ranks somewhere in the middle. I don't hate it as much as some nor do I like it as much as some. But I will always remember the way I felt the first time I saw it and to me that is what makes Bond movies Bond movies and not just movies.

chrisisall

Funny. I was about to start a thread on what moment as a kid you realized this Bond series was awesome, but this thread sort of encompases my idea too.

Bond is awesome villain dialogue "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to DIE." (my first moment, BTW)
Bond is awesome action (rooftop YOLT fight).
Bond is awesome Bond quips "Stuff my orders! I only kill professionals. That girl didn't know one end of a rifle from the other. Go ahead. Tell M what you want. If he fires me, I'll thank him for it."
Bond is John Barry.
Bond is hot women (mileage varies here).
Bond is blowing up the bad guy's hideout (DN, YOLT, TSWLM, LTK, QOS).
Bond is bad "Since you're here, would you mind giving me something to put on?"
*Bond hands Fiona her shoes*
-{

Sir James Moloney

The smart-alec answer would be "a film that has James Bond in it" but I don't consider Casino Royale '67 to be a Bond film at all (in common with a lot of you guys, I'm sure) and that has James Bond in it. Maybe NSNA is a good "litmus test"?

Really interesting question.

chrisisall

Sir James Moloney wrote:

Maybe NSNA is a good "litmus test"?

NSNA passes for me, but in that Moore era way. :007)

Sir James Moloney

chrisisall wrote:

Sir James Moloney wrote:

Maybe NSNA is a good "litmus test"?

NSNA passes for me, but in that Moore era way. :007)

For years, I didn't consider NSNA to be a Bond film at all. No James Bond Theme! No gunbarrel! And - here's the clincher - it was set in a different continuity! But then CR came along and it's my favourite Bond film of all.

The time may have come for me to give NSNA a rewatch...

chrisisall

Sir James Moloney wrote:

The time may have come for me to give NSNA a rewatch...

I'd say it's worth it. If one is a fan of ANY Moore films, one should see NSNA. -{

Blackleiter

An interesting and difficult question. With the exception of CR '67, they're all Bond movies to me. This is so despite that fact that there are significant differences between the films depending on the actor paying Bond, the amount of the Fleming elements contained in the film, the absence or presence of Barry's music, so many things. But so long as the movie features our intrepid British secret agent, brandishing his license to kill (and using it), matching wits with a powerful villain or organization, meeting beautiful women, explaining himself to M, and digging himself out of tight spots on a regular basis, that's a James Bond movie to me.

Thunderpussy

Barbel wrote :

It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. I'd say it's about style rather than content; there have been many other films with similar plot elements, characters, etc, but they're not James Bond movies.

Bond has a style all his own, Hard to specify but you Know it when you see it. :007)

Higgins

chrisisall wrote:

I'd say it's worth it. If one is a fan of ANY Moore films, one should see NSNA. -{

you can count me in with that group _ I still dislike NSNA to a high degree.

It looks cheap (like LTK and parts of TLD), the humor is forced, Connery looks older than Moore in any of his movies and don't get me started about the dodgy Atari battle.
I found it pathetic back then and that has'nt changed over the years.

Thunderpussy

Sorry if this has already been posted, But gives a good
sense of what a Bond film is.

SKYFALL: 50 Years of Bond
http://youtu.be/t10mNXtfdUw

RogueAgent007

Bond is an adventure. More than an action movie, but with elements of it. Bond is more than just shooting people and blowing stuff up. Bond is more than car chases. Yet, all three of those things are in Bond Movies. Bond is Larger than Life. He is everything we wish we could be (ie. loyal, courageous, fights to protect what is right and true)and everything we are glad we are not(ie. alcoholic, smoker, womanizer). Possessing a well defined palate, refined tastes, and being an expert at almost everything, he is confident, and self possessed, yet haunted by his demons. He cares about humanity and justice, yet sees himself a bit separated from Humans in general. He possesses feelings, yet has to lock them away to remain sane in the insane world he lives in and fights to protect.

Bond is intelligent, resourceful, cunning, witty, and determined. He has enormous drive and ability, coupled with a never quit attitude. It is this attitude which gets him through most situations which should have ended his life years ago. Even when outmatched in every way Bond finds Victory no matter the situation. Bond Always Wins.

chrisisall

RogueAgent007 wrote:

Bond Always Wins.

Well... not always....

...Tracy...

RogueAgent007

chrisisall wrote:

RogueAgent007 wrote:

Bond Always Wins.

Well... not always....

...Tracy...

Point taken. Ok, how about this. Bond Always Wins...except when he doesn't.

Number24

- James Bond must be the star of the movie (and not the villan or the movie star)
- Great action with real stunts
- Attractive women and interesting locations
- Some influence from Fleming
- The theme and the gunbarrel
- Some good and witty dialogue, but not to jokey.
- whatever I forgot .....

Number24

RogueAgent007 wrote:

and everything we are glad we are not(ie. alcoholic, smoker, womanizer)..

Personally I wouldn't mind being a womanizer, given the chance .... )

Thunderpussy

http://youtu.be/rMqayQ-U74s Womanizer (Director's Cut)

DelicatessenInSteel

I've always thought of Bond as Romantic movies for Men.
Action, Adventure, Mystery, a sense of humor, the ladies..and the main reason I love them is the music.

Barbel

DelicatessenInSteel wrote:

the main reason I love them is the music.

+1 to the power of infinity.

chrisisall

Barbel wrote:

DelicatessenInSteel wrote:

the main reason I love them is the music.

+1 to the power of infinity.

The music is important! -{

superado

I take it that we all understand that the Bond movie is a unique animal in itself, being independent even from the strict confines of what is “Flemingesque.” I was just watching TSWLM on blu-ray the other day and thought while seeing little bits and pieces of it how those elements made up what made a Bond movie, a Bond movie. Here are observations of just some of those elements:

[list=*]
[*]An impeccably dressed, handsome Bond, wearing a blazer, striped shirt, etc., with finely coifed hair to a very debonair effect.[/*]
[*]A suave, witty and slightly conceited James Bond, confident that he will win the girl despite her newly found dedication to kill him.[/*]
[*]A bevy of Bond girls, with the main one wearing an outfit without a bra.
[/*]
[*]A fast, sleek, futuristic sports car outrunning a helicopter, doing donuts while evading deadly machine gun fire with much flare and style, unlike a lumbering car chase in a Bourne movie.
[/*]
[*]Said car turns into a state-of-the-art arsenal that the viewer did not see coming.
[/*]
[*]An “epic” soundtrack that can be at different times, thrilling, playful and romantic.
[/*]
[*]Larger-than-life villain with larger-than-life facilities, which together with dedicated minions, provide an impressive display of power and capability.
[/*]
[*]The villain’s objective has world-shattering repercussions.
[/*]
[*]The movie climaxes with a clash between the villain’s elite forces and a band of besieged, patriotic military personnel that instantly take to Bond’s leadership.
[/*]
[*]The movie ends with another show of force of sorts, reminding the viewer that the side of good (the UK Empire and by extension, the West) is “blessed” with these tokens of technological superiority and military might and there's no licking of wounds here; this is despite the occasional crisis that necessitates the special qualities of James Bond.[/*]
[/list]

Shallow yes, but fun and definitely "Bond." No brooding angst against the world, no childhood baggage, no vendettas, no chronic irreverence to authority figures and most importantly, no bull.

chrisisall

superado wrote:

no chronic irreverence to authority figures

"Tell M what you want."

superado

chrisisall wrote:

superado wrote:

no chronic irreverence to authority figures

"Tell M what you want."

"Awww, M, a few more minutes!"

chrisisall

superado wrote:

"Awww, M, a few more minutes!"

Silly silly British man. )

RogueAgent007

superado wrote:

[list=*]
[*]An impeccably dressed, handsome Bond, wearing a blazer, striped shirt, etc., with finely coifed hair to a very debonair effect.[/*]
[*]A suave, witty and slightly conceited James Bond, confident that he will win the girl despite her newly found dedication to kill him.[/*]
[*]A bevy of Bond girls, with the main one wearing an outfit without a bra.
[/*]
[*]A fast, sleek, futuristic sports car outrunning a helicopter, doing donuts while evading deadly machine gun fire with much flare and style, unlike a lumbering car chase in a Bourne movie.
[/*]
[*]Said car turns into a state-of-the-art arsenal that the viewer did not see coming.
[/*]
[*]An “epic” soundtrack that can be at different times, thrilling, playful and romantic.
[/*]
[*]Larger-than-life villain with larger-than-life facilities, which together with dedicated minions, provide an impressive display of power and capability.
[/*]
[*]The villain’s objective has world-shattering repercussions.
[/*]
[*]The movie climaxes with a clash between the villain’s elite forces and a band of besieged, patriotic military personnel that instantly take to Bond’s leadership.
[/*]
[*]The movie ends with another show of force of sorts, reminding the viewer that the side of good (the UK Empire and by extension, the West) is “blessed” with these tokens of technological superiority and military might and there's no licking of wounds here; this is despite the occasional crisis that necessitates the special qualities of James Bond.[/*]
[/list]

Shallow yes, but fun and definitely "Bond." No brooding angst against the world, no childhood baggage, no vendettas, no chronic irreverence to authority figures and most importantly, no bull.

I agree, Great stuff. Your list highlights the reasons TSWLM is in my top 5. That's the kind of stuff that made Bond Movies great. Formulaic? Sure. But that's not a problem when the formula is so much stinkin' fun!

Paul 1300

Well as some one once said "Imitation is the finest form of flattery" and there have been so many imitations over the years, most of them going for comedy over style:
Our man flint
The man from Uncle ( I think Fleming was also involved in this as well)
Austin Powers
Bourne (although I have never watched a Bourne film)
countless references in The Simpsons, Family Guy Etc
I think Connery's Brother was also involved in a low budget rip off as well

But I think there are a combination of elements that make Bond , Bond

Quality: Bond always looks Good ( apart from Moore in the terrible fashion of his era) good quality suits, and good Watches

He always drives fantastic cars ( Except for the poxy citroen or renault Moore again)

Locations: Apart from Skyfall the films are usually shot in great locations around the world

Inovation : Bond is always in a predicament and escapes using wits ( the Laser scene GF)

Stunts: there have been some awesome stunts in bond films over the years, ( the car roll in CR06 holds the record for the amount of times it rolled over)

Action: Every Bond film without exception has great action scenes.

Gorgeous Women: don't need to say any more really

Music: Though this is not always the case (OP, FYEO, FRWL, TB, TWINE were pretty ropey) generally the Music is brilliant ( GF, YOLT, TSWLM, LALD and of course Monty Norman)

and of course the Bond Mottiffs

Gun Barrell
PTS
Q branch scene
a touch of Mysogenism ( not sure this word exists) in an over the top PC world
Throwing a hat on to a coat stand in Money penny's office
over the top villain with an over the top plan with an over the top crew of henchmen in an over the top headquarters
an over elaborate and completely unnecessary plan to kill Bond, when he could just shoot him
The fact he is British ( occasionally Irish or Australian)
A superhuman Henchmen (Oddjob, Jaws ETC)
The Tux
The Gadgets some good some dreadful
oh and elements of espionage

RogueAgent007

Paul1300 wrote:

a touch of Mysogenism ( not sure this word exists)

Yes it does, it means a hatred of women/ feminine qualities. M uses a form of it in Goldeneye to call Bond a "sexist. misogynist dinosaur. A relic of the Cold War." Love that bit of dialogue! :x

Paul1300 wrote:

Locations: Apart from Skyfall the films are usually shot in great locations around the world

Skyfall isn't the only one with piss poor locations. Have you seen QOS? Haiti? Bolivia? Really?!

Paul1300 wrote:

Quality: Bond always looks Good ( apart from Moore in the terrible fashion of his era) good quality suits, and good Watches

Moore was impeccably dressed and was in the height of style at the time. The Fashion carousel hasn't come back around to those styles yet, give it time.

But yeah, you're pretty dead on, IMO.

Sir James Moloney

RogueAgent007 wrote:

Moore was impeccably dressed and was in the height of style at the time. The Fashion carousel hasn't come back around to those styles yet, give it time

+1 for this. I'm always really surprised that Roger Moore gets mentioned so often as the worst dressed Bond when he's probably the best dressed Bond.

It will be interesting to see if he's reassessed soon when the "fashion carousel" comes back around like RogueAgent007 suggests. Lapels are starting to get wider and skinny trousers are going out of fashion....

zaphod

Sir James Moloney wrote:

RogueAgent007 wrote:

Moore was impeccably dressed and was in the height of style at the time. The Fashion carousel hasn't come back around to those styles yet, give it time

+1 for this. I'm always really surprised that Roger Moore gets mentioned so often as the worst dressed Bond when he's probably the best dressed Bond.

It will be interesting to see if he's reassessed soon when the "fashion carousel" comes back around like RogueAgent007 suggests. Lapels are starting to get wider and skinny trousers are going out of fashion....

And Cravats are very now...off to buy a Safari Suit...wish me luck and " tell Mother I died game" :007)