Sorry, I may be ignorant and such but am I the only one who applauds for not entirely sticking with Flemings Bond in the movies?
Nope, you're not the only one. I actually enjoy the changes Connery and his collaborators brought to the cinematic Bond (e.g. the sardonic wit and the charm) that to me appear to be somewhat lacking in the Bond in Fleming's novels.
How about that, Toys? We're seeing eye-to-eye again!
It's not a far way ahead and I may be starting to like you {[]
Shhhhh.......not so loud! )
"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
I always thought the films deviated from the books in terms of tongue in cheek humour for two reasons:-
1. To avoid charges of stupidity. Better to have audiences laughing WITH you than AT you.
2. To get a more family-friendly rating from the censors. Admittedly, the Prof Dent killing is pretty callous but in general terms there's a distinct lightness in tone I've not found in the few books I've read.
I usually differentiate normal - so-to-say "daily" sadism (such as it's shown here against new members )
and "weird" sadism - but I am aware that in Scotland it is all the same
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Ian Fleming was of course Scottish too, though he was also very puritanical. An interesting and diverse mix that he included in his Bond novels, I'd say.
Sorry, I may be ignorant and such but am I the only one who applauds for not entirely sticking with Flemings Bond in the movies?
Fleming was a great writer but some weird sadism together with some healthy nationalism, prejudices and so on from his novels just seem not to be right to put on the big screen.
I am happy, that they went closer to the novels with CR - infact very close but CR is Flemings best novel imo next to OHMSS.
And for the record, I really enjoyed TSWLM novel because it's so different {[]
I wouldn't go so far as applaud EON for deviating in certain aspects of Fleming's work, but I do understand the necessities at times when they have to consider box office vs authenticity. All film productions based on
other media have to - it's pure economics (ie - toning down aspects to appeal to a broader audience or injecting more humor). That's why many critics were so harsh with LTK - certain scenes like Leiter getting mauled were never done in the series - it was straight out of Fleming's novel and
realistic so it was shocking. Fleming's "he disagreed with something that ate him" was also the grim humor one associated with Bond ("I think he got the point" from TBALL, etc.), but when put on a bloody note on Felix's mangled body it becomes sick - which is what Fleming wanted to convey.
It's why scenes like Severine getting shot in SF is sick - same reason. It was Fleming's way of conveying how dirty and perverse and nasty real
evil people are. The producers injected more humor from Bond through the series and didn't show as much graphic killing in order to get younger audiences in and also to lighten the whole mood of a Bond adventure.
It's always been a tricky balance, because they took a character who in essence has a really dangerous job to do and sees death and sadism and make it seem entertaining. They get it right when they stuck close to Fleming but lightened it (the first Connery films, OHMSS, TLD, FYEO, etc.) but
they teeter on the edge with the ones that go darker - LTK, Craig's films). With Craig's reboot and the success of SF it seems that the worldwide audience has come to accept a darker sardonic Bond closer to the novel's character. We'll just have to see if that course will maintain it's appeal or if they will have to go lighter again in the future.
I also enjoy TSWLM - I thought it took a lot of artistic courage for Fleming to go at Bond from a different angle. I actually though he probably should have made it as one of his short stories so he could have cut out some of the woman's biography, but I'm still glad he tried the experiment (as I was glad he penned Chitty Chitty BB).
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,817MI6 Agent
Going slightly back on topic,
I finished my Bond Marathon the other week, (Skyfall missing, but I am awaiting the DVD price drop.) I realised that some of my perspectives have been skewed.
Some films, are Bond classics. - Dr No. Goldfinger, FYEO, TLD, CR-06.
Some films, you can't take too seriously, or scrutinise them to Mr Flemings books. It not fair to the said films, and makes them more enjoyable and fun. -
DAF, MKR, DAD.
Some films will always be guilty pleasures that other Bond Fans may agree to disagree with you about or you may have specific annoying niggles with them yourself - DAF, TMWTGG, AVTAK, and LTK.
I have discovered there is not one Bond film that I have been dismissive of in the past, but two which I can now say I feel has (partially) redeemed itself. The first was AVTAK, which in the context of its neighbours is fine, with a few teething problems.
Having completed the marathon I realised something similar with Quantum Of Solice. I was able to thoroughly enjoy it because all the pieces (FINALLY) fell into place!
Essentially whenever an action sequence kicked into gear, I hit slow play on my DVD, varying between 1/2 down 1/6 speed. As a result I now understand all the action sequences and what happened in them, and because I watched the film immediately after CR-06 the pieces of the plot clunked into place in my head like the missing bits of a jigsaw.
Don't get me wrong, its not the best way to watch a film! I still have "niggles" such as some of the set designs, the camera angles, flat delivery in places and low key nature of the plot with its unanswered questions, - most notably Quantum's endgame. Nevertheless, as long as I watch QoS using my approach, I can say I can see it in the same light as rest of the Bond films, now I know what is happening on the screen.
I will always think Skyfall was an improvement though! :007)
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Very Good Point TP....When I first saw CR I hated it..made me mad and it looked like grainy crappy grey darkness..saw it at an AMC theatre. Saw it a month later and took my nephew & my Mom at another theater..and it looked gorgeous. Then I realised..that CR was really a classic Bond film in style and execution regardless of all the Bourne comparisons. But yeah QOS was a punch in the gut of disbelief. Incoherently told grim, depressing, yet the plot was an old school James Bond plot but the style & execution overshadowed everything.
Infact since watching the movies more fequently now, ( as I have them on a tablet, so can dip into them all the time now ) ).
I have changed my mind on some of the films and infact QOS has moved up a little from the bottom of my list.
( although I doubt my top five will ever change very much )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
Nope, you're not the only one. I actually enjoy the changes Connery and his collaborators brought to the cinematic Bond (e.g. the sardonic wit and the charm) that to me appear to be somewhat lacking in the Bond in Fleming's novels.
How about that, Toys? We're seeing eye-to-eye again!
It's not a far way ahead and I may be starting to like you
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Shhhhh.......not so loud!
1. To avoid charges of stupidity. Better to have audiences laughing WITH you than AT you.
2. To get a more family-friendly rating from the censors. Admittedly, the Prof Dent killing is pretty callous but in general terms there's a distinct lightness in tone I've not found in the few books I've read.
I usually differentiate normal - so-to-say "daily" sadism (such as it's shown here against new members
and "weird" sadism - but I am aware that in Scotland it is all the same
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
But of course; with Bond being Scottish, what could you expect?
I wouldn't go so far as applaud EON for deviating in certain aspects of Fleming's work, but I do understand the necessities at times when they have to consider box office vs authenticity. All film productions based on
other media have to - it's pure economics (ie - toning down aspects to appeal to a broader audience or injecting more humor). That's why many critics were so harsh with LTK - certain scenes like Leiter getting mauled were never done in the series - it was straight out of Fleming's novel and
realistic so it was shocking. Fleming's "he disagreed with something that ate him" was also the grim humor one associated with Bond ("I think he got the point" from TBALL, etc.), but when put on a bloody note on Felix's mangled body it becomes sick - which is what Fleming wanted to convey.
It's why scenes like Severine getting shot in SF is sick - same reason. It was Fleming's way of conveying how dirty and perverse and nasty real
evil people are. The producers injected more humor from Bond through the series and didn't show as much graphic killing in order to get younger audiences in and also to lighten the whole mood of a Bond adventure.
It's always been a tricky balance, because they took a character who in essence has a really dangerous job to do and sees death and sadism and make it seem entertaining. They get it right when they stuck close to Fleming but lightened it (the first Connery films, OHMSS, TLD, FYEO, etc.) but
they teeter on the edge with the ones that go darker - LTK, Craig's films). With Craig's reboot and the success of SF it seems that the worldwide audience has come to accept a darker sardonic Bond closer to the novel's character. We'll just have to see if that course will maintain it's appeal or if they will have to go lighter again in the future.
I also enjoy TSWLM - I thought it took a lot of artistic courage for Fleming to go at Bond from a different angle. I actually though he probably should have made it as one of his short stories so he could have cut out some of the woman's biography, but I'm still glad he tried the experiment (as I was glad he penned Chitty Chitty BB).
Sorry. That was what I meant to convey in my first ever post here. Been a lurker for a long time and thought it was time I joined up.
Good to have you, Afro Skull! -{
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Yep
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
OK, then let's hit our watches and shout 'Transmute'!
I'd rather hit his bottom and say 'goodbye'....but that's my fantasy ;%
Wouldn't an Afro Skull give you a very distinctive silhouette...?
I finished my Bond Marathon the other week, (Skyfall missing, but I am awaiting the DVD price drop.) I realised that some of my perspectives have been skewed.
Some films, are Bond classics. - Dr No. Goldfinger, FYEO, TLD, CR-06.
Some films, you can't take too seriously, or scrutinise them to Mr Flemings books. It not fair to the said films, and makes them more enjoyable and fun. -
DAF, MKR, DAD.
Some films will always be guilty pleasures that other Bond Fans may agree to disagree with you about or you may have specific annoying niggles with them yourself - DAF, TMWTGG, AVTAK, and LTK.
I have discovered there is not one Bond film that I have been dismissive of in the past, but two which I can now say I feel has (partially) redeemed itself. The first was AVTAK, which in the context of its neighbours is fine, with a few teething problems.
Having completed the marathon I realised something similar with Quantum Of Solice. I was able to thoroughly enjoy it because all the pieces (FINALLY) fell into place!
Essentially whenever an action sequence kicked into gear, I hit slow play on my DVD, varying between 1/2 down 1/6 speed. As a result I now understand all the action sequences and what happened in them, and because I watched the film immediately after CR-06 the pieces of the plot clunked into place in my head like the missing bits of a jigsaw.
Don't get me wrong, its not the best way to watch a film! I still have "niggles" such as some of the set designs, the camera angles, flat delivery in places and low key nature of the plot with its unanswered questions, - most notably Quantum's endgame. Nevertheless, as long as I watch QoS using my approach, I can say I can see it in the same light as rest of the Bond films, now I know what is happening on the screen.
I will always think Skyfall was an improvement though! :007)
I have changed my mind on some of the films and infact QOS has moved up a little from the bottom of my list.
( although I doubt my top five will ever change very much )
Once again I'll blame the writers strike.