Just to get back to the OP.
I'm blaming the writers strike for many of the faults of QOS. I have softened my views on it over the years. Although a little better editing and some more character lead scenes would of helped.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Agreed. There is the tantalising possibility of an excellent James Bond film in there, though the flaws are off-puttting.
We've all debated those flaws (editing; weak villain; THAT SONG) but there is still plenty to enjoy in QoS and I find myself warming to it more and more.
The script sucked. There was little cleverness, no wit, no suspense, no surprise. Having Fields die covered in oil made no sense because the movie had nothing to do with oil (would've made more sense if she drowned in the bathtub). I point this out because the manner of her death makes it truly gratituous and meaningless, like much of the film. The death of Mathis was handled terribly as well. Foster jazzed up the editing to try and coverup the fact that there was basically no story. The only good thing about the movie was Craig's performance. His energy kept the movie going.
I really like Quantum of Solace, it ranks at around number 6/7 in my films list and I've found I seem to enjoy it more each time I watch it. I understand the reservations a lot of people have about it, and on may levels it doesn't work too well. For me though, the film is about individual moments that show the foundations of the character that Bond eventually becomes. Notably, not letting Green fall to his death in the fire and not killing Vesper's boyfriend at the end. These two moments show the 'blunt instrument' from Casino Royale becoming a more human character. He sees that he does not need the deaths of these people for closure. Realising that his life is heading down a dark path, he stops himself and separates himself from the side of his profession that could be come too personal and damaging. Also I really like that he refrains from trying to talk Camille out of her revenge as would be the norm in this sort of film; he understands her and knows exactly what she is going through.
Quantum of Solace can be seen as pretty vacuous and all flash and bang but there is some deeper stuff going on that isn't immediately apparent and this is largely due to the script and the editing. So, yes, I would somewhat agree with the OP's assertion about editing, with the caveat that I actually like the film as it is.
The film as a whole also works best as an epilogue to Casino Royale rather than a standalone piece, which works against the film rather than being it's strength.
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
I think "QUANTUM OF SOLACE" could have benefited from a slightly better editing job. I might as well say the same about "THE BOURNE SUPREMACY" and especially "THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM". But I still liked all three movies.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Having Fields die covered in oil made no sense because the movie had nothing to do with oil (would've made more sense if she drowned in the bathtub).
Made no sense ? It made perfect sense...the idea was for Quantum to keep everyone focused on the premise of they being after oil - not the water that they were really after....I'm surprised you missed that ?:)
Also how did he get her onto the bed without dripping any oil anywhere? Given that "her lungs were full of it" she can't have been laid on the bed and then drenched!
Oh how I love to pick nits!
JediM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
. ... For me though, the film is about individual moments that show the foundations of the character that Bond eventually becomes. Notably, not letting Green fall to his death in the fire and not killing Vesper's boyfriend at the end. These two moments show the 'blunt instrument' from Casino Royale becoming a more human character... (Snippage)
The film as a whole also works best as an epilogue to Casino Royale rather than a standalone piece, which works against the film rather than being it's strength.
Sorry JBj, I have to disagree here. Bond didn't slaughter Vesper, instead fought to save her at the end of CR-06 in spite of her betrayal, and he wounded Mr White intending to capture him at the films end. CR resolved that aspect quite nicely by itself. QoS restarted it. Bond sliced Slate without interrogation, killed a special branch officer without knowing who he works for, and he may not have killed Greene directly, but left him for dead instead of turning him in. - M said Greene had the motor oil in his stomach, clarifying that Greene was left desperate, and Quantum put him out of his misery.
As for CR part two, Quantum was never made clear in CR, so it was supposed to be the driving storyline of QoS, with the CR aspects as a frame. You can literally watch the opening and closing scenes on their own and the CR elements are resolved. In that sense, QoS shot itself in the foot, because without any motive or reason behind Quantum, the film's own whole story caves in on itself.
I do agree there is some deeper stuff in the character scenes, but you have to actively look for it, in a film that is not sure what its doing.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Sorry JBj, I have to disagree here. Bond didn't slaughter Vesper, instead fought to save her at the end of CR-06 in spite of her betrayal, and he wounded Mr White intending to capture him at the films end. CR resolved that aspect quite nicely by itself. QoS restarted it. Bond sliced Slate without interrogation, killed a special branch officer without knowing who he works for, and he may not have killed Greene directly, but left him for dead instead of turning him in. - M said Greene had the motor oil in his stomach, clarifying that Greene was left desperate, and Quantum put him out of his misery.
As for CR part two, Quantum was never made clear in CR, so it was supposed to be the driving storyline of QoS, with the CR aspects as a frame. You can literally watch the opening and closing scenes on their own and the CR elements are resolved. In that sense, QoS shot itself in the foot, because without any motive or reason behind Quantum, the film's own whole story caves in on itself.
I do agree there is some deeper stuff in the character scenes, but you have to actively look for it, in a film that is not sure what its doing.
See, for me, the death of Vesper is one of the catalysts for his utter coldness so I never saw it being resolved in CR. He never would have killed Vesper as he loved her and her method of revealing who/what she was that told Bond that she did actually care for him too and was trying to find a way out, even if it did end in her death. He then didn't kill White as he wanted him for information and White didn't fight back. Had he put up any resistance I'm pretty sure Bond would have killed him without hesitation.
So this all carries over to QoS in my opinion.
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
Having Fields die covered in oil made no sense because the movie had nothing to do with oil (would've made more sense if she drowned in the bathtub).
Made no sense ? It made perfect sense...the idea was for Quantum to keep everyone focused on the premise of they being after oil - not the water that they were really after....I'm surprised you missed that ?:)
Okay, the girl in Goldfinger was covered in gold paint because the film was about a guy who loved gold. Fields was covered in oil because oil had absolutely nothing to do with the movie.
Yes, perfect sense.
I suppose the argument is that this is a tricky half homage to Goldfinger with a back flip. But it still makes no sense. Nobody is fooled by covering her in oil. Bond already knows that Greene is after water. And whatever the motivation involved, M knows that it was Greene that killed Fields.
"You might like to tell her your theory... about there being no oil. Her lungs are full of it."
"It was Greene."
"No doubt. But why?"
"It's just misdirection." [Note: What does misdirection even mean here? The British government thinks Greene is after oil, so he . . . covers her in oil, thereby pointing the finger at himself. That's not misdirection.]
" I mean, why her, Bond? She was just supposed to send you home. She worked in an office,
collecting reports. Look how well your charm works, James."
Blah, blah, blah, you're in big trouble Bond, you're suspended because I sent an office clerk out on a field assignment and it's all because of your charm.
And in the bizarro-world that is QOS, M decides to take the death of Fields out on Bond instead of the person she knows actually killed her. None of this makes any sense. And the whole movie is like this. It gives me a headache just to think about it.
The script was half-baked. It needed another six months of re-working. Even Craig has admitted it was bad. Of course it was still better than 3/4 of Brosnan and almost all of Moore.
About the oil..........The CIA dudes were under the impression that Greene was after oil because they were monitoring his purchases of pipeline materials (the coversation with him in the private jet). I really think that QOS had great potential....It's just an uncomfortable movie to watch because the editing is so dissconcerting. One almost gets vertigo during the opera scene. However, there are many things I like about it ! I thought that Olga was a great Bond Girl. Very beautiful and charming with just the right amount of toughness. We all seam to agree that Craig looked his best in regards to wardrobe and haircut, not to mention his acting skill. The locations are great. I liked the look of the MI-6 offices. The fight scenes are good..........I guess in the end, this is the classic case of would've, could've should've
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Having Fields die covered in oil made no sense because the movie had nothing to do with oil (would've made more sense if she drowned in the bathtub).
Made no sense ? It made perfect sense...the idea was for Quantum to keep everyone focused on the premise of they being after oil - not the water that they were really after....I'm surprised you missed that ?:)
Okay, the girl in Goldfinger was covered in gold paint because the film was about a guy who loved gold. Fields was covered in oil because oil had absolutely nothing to do with the movie.
Yes, perfect sense.
Even when its explained to you you still don't get it....I can only surmise you are being obstreperous now so as to keep up your 'argument'.....
I think "QUANTUM OF SOLACE" could have benefited from a slightly better editing job. I might as well say the same about "THE BOURNE SUPREMACY" and especially "THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM". But I still liked all three movies.
I think that you are wrong.
QoS cutting was exactly how Foster wanted it to be.
Though, I don't like his kind of "you're in the middle of the action and don't see everything - just the next coming punch" cutting, his skills are unobjected.
So, you can't speak about a "better" editing - just a different editing.
I don't like QoS, partly for the fast cuts but that's my taste.
Sir Miles likes it - that's his bad taste
But QoS editing is good - though not my taste and it's horrific to see how much money ended on the cutting floor :v
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The script was half-baked. It needed another six months of re-working. Even Craig has admitted it was bad. Of course it was still better than 3/4 of Brosnan and almost all of Moore.
You know this is a site for James Bond fans right? )
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
I liked it at the time and have come to like it more after time. It probably suffers as it wasn't CR.
Yes it's not perfect, but I have no problems with any of the editing ... if you're in a full-on car chase or fight, isn't it supposed to be harem-scarem stuff?!
My only real "gripe" would be that the Greene character could / should have been developed more. There was also no particular need for the daft flunky side-kick.
As for the oil / water bit ... not entirely sure what the issue is with this??!
BIG TAMWrexham, North Wales, UK.Posts: 773MI6 Agent
I always thought Fields covered in oil was just a quick throwaway nod to GOLDFINGER. It makes no more sense than having Oddjob going to the trouble of gilding Jill Masterson with a pot of gold paint. It's a form of visual sadism peculiar to the franchise.
I don't think we should forget these films are terrific entertainments, not profound essays on the nature of espionage.
Made no sense ? It made perfect sense...the idea was for Quantum to keep everyone focused on the premise of they being after oil - not the water that they were really after....I'm surprised you missed that ?:)
Okay, the girl in Goldfinger was covered in gold paint because the film was about a guy who loved gold. Fields was covered in oil because oil had absolutely nothing to do with the movie.
Yes, perfect sense.
Even when its explained to you you still don't get it....I can only surmise you are being obstreperous now so as to keep up your 'argument'.....
Obtreperous is my default state.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
Okay, the girl in Goldfinger was covered in gold paint because the film was about a guy who loved gold. Fields was covered in oil because oil had absolutely nothing to do with the movie.
Yes, perfect sense.
Even when its explained to you you still don't get it....I can only surmise you are being obstreperous now so as to keep up your 'argument'.....
Comments
(Not a second time...)
(Not with Michelle anyway)...
(Another girl?)
(this bird has flown ?)...
(Because...?)
I'm blaming the writers strike for many of the faults of QOS. I have softened my views on it over the years. Although a little better editing and some more character lead scenes would of helped.
We've all debated those flaws (editing; weak villain; THAT SONG) but there is still plenty to enjoy in QoS and I find myself warming to it more and more.
Also, the scene at the opera was pretty good.
Quantum of Solace can be seen as pretty vacuous and all flash and bang but there is some deeper stuff going on that isn't immediately apparent and this is largely due to the script and the editing. So, yes, I would somewhat agree with the OP's assertion about editing, with the caveat that I actually like the film as it is.
The film as a whole also works best as an epilogue to Casino Royale rather than a standalone piece, which works against the film rather than being it's strength.
Made no sense ? It made perfect sense...the idea was for Quantum to keep everyone focused on the premise of they being after oil - not the water that they were really after....I'm surprised you missed that ?:)
Oh how I love to pick nits!
JediM
Sorry JBj, I have to disagree here. Bond didn't slaughter Vesper, instead fought to save her at the end of CR-06 in spite of her betrayal, and he wounded Mr White intending to capture him at the films end. CR resolved that aspect quite nicely by itself. QoS restarted it. Bond sliced Slate without interrogation, killed a special branch officer without knowing who he works for, and he may not have killed Greene directly, but left him for dead instead of turning him in. - M said Greene had the motor oil in his stomach, clarifying that Greene was left desperate, and Quantum put him out of his misery.
As for CR part two, Quantum was never made clear in CR, so it was supposed to be the driving storyline of QoS, with the CR aspects as a frame. You can literally watch the opening and closing scenes on their own and the CR elements are resolved. In that sense, QoS shot itself in the foot, because without any motive or reason behind Quantum, the film's own whole story caves in on itself.
I do agree there is some deeper stuff in the character scenes, but you have to actively look for it, in a film that is not sure what its doing.
See, for me, the death of Vesper is one of the catalysts for his utter coldness so I never saw it being resolved in CR. He never would have killed Vesper as he loved her and her method of revealing who/what she was that told Bond that she did actually care for him too and was trying to find a way out, even if it did end in her death. He then didn't kill White as he wanted him for information and White didn't fight back. Had he put up any resistance I'm pretty sure Bond would have killed him without hesitation.
So this all carries over to QoS in my opinion.
Okay, the girl in Goldfinger was covered in gold paint because the film was about a guy who loved gold. Fields was covered in oil because oil had absolutely nothing to do with the movie.
Yes, perfect sense.
I suppose the argument is that this is a tricky half homage to Goldfinger with a back flip. But it still makes no sense. Nobody is fooled by covering her in oil. Bond already knows that Greene is after water. And whatever the motivation involved, M knows that it was Greene that killed Fields.
"You might like to tell her your theory... about there being no oil. Her lungs are full of it."
"It was Greene."
"No doubt. But why?"
"It's just misdirection." [Note: What does misdirection even mean here? The British government thinks Greene is after oil, so he . . . covers her in oil, thereby pointing the finger at himself. That's not misdirection.]
" I mean, why her, Bond? She was just supposed to send you home. She worked in an office,
collecting reports. Look how well your charm works, James."
Blah, blah, blah, you're in big trouble Bond, you're suspended because I sent an office clerk out on a field assignment and it's all because of your charm.
And in the bizarro-world that is QOS, M decides to take the death of Fields out on Bond instead of the person she knows actually killed her. None of this makes any sense. And the whole movie is like this. It gives me a headache just to think about it.
The script was half-baked. It needed another six months of re-working. Even Craig has admitted it was bad. Of course it was still better than 3/4 of Brosnan and almost all of Moore.
http://collider.com/daniel-craig-quantum-of-solace-script-problems/
Even when its explained to you you still don't get it....I can only surmise you are being obstreperous now so as to keep up your 'argument'.....
I think that you are wrong.
QoS cutting was exactly how Foster wanted it to be.
Though, I don't like his kind of "you're in the middle of the action and don't see everything - just the next coming punch" cutting, his skills are unobjected.
So, you can't speak about a "better" editing - just a different editing.
I don't like QoS, partly for the fast cuts but that's my taste.
Sir Miles likes it - that's his bad taste
But QoS editing is good - though not my taste and it's horrific to see how much money ended on the cutting floor :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You know this is a site for James Bond fans right?
I like you....so that PROVES I have bad taste
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yes it's not perfect, but I have no problems with any of the editing ... if you're in a full-on car chase or fight, isn't it supposed to be harem-scarem stuff?!
My only real "gripe" would be that the Greene character could / should have been developed more. There was also no particular need for the daft flunky side-kick.
As for the oil / water bit ... not entirely sure what the issue is with this??!
I don't think we should forget these films are terrific entertainments, not profound essays on the nature of espionage.
Obtreperous is my default state.
That makes two of us then.