Live And Let Die vs. For Your Eyes Only

chrisisall

The two 'small' Moore Bond movies, no exploding lairs, no massive weapons or ships, just concise stories on a reasonable scale.
So which do you prefer and why?

I prefer LALD for mainly two reasons: the musical score & Solitaire. George Martin beats the crap out of Bill Conti any day of the week, and Melina, while quite fetching, is no Jane Seymour.
Other than that, they're actually quite close IMO! -{

Le Samourai

chrisisall wrote:

The two 'small' Moore Bond movies, no exploding lairs, no massive weapons or ships, just concise stories on a reasonable scale.
So which do you prefer and why?

I prefer LALD for mainly two reasons: the musical score & Solitaire.
Other than that, they're actually quite close IMO! -{

These—along with OP—are my favorite Moore Bonds.

It is a tough call between LALD and FYEO. I would probably pick LALD for the reasons you mention along with the general voodoo-inspired weirdness of the film.

One negative thing both LALD and FYEO have in common (unfortunately) are embarrasing scenes that seen to jar with the rest of the film:

LALD: Kananaga's ridiculous death.
FYEO: The Blofeld (?) PTS and the Thatcher lookalike at the end.

Neither of those scenes ruins the movies for me, but they sure don't add anything.

chrisisall

Le Samourai wrote:

LALD: Kananaga's ridiculous death.
FYEO: The Blofeld (?) PTS and the Thatcher lookalike at the end.

Neither of those scenes ruins the movies for me, but they sure don't add anything.

Since having that 'delicatessen' line explained for me, I suddenly actually find the PTS of FYEO entirely acceptable. Ernst was broke, crippled & mad. It was probably difficult to get that two-bit plan cobbled together at all. Then the fall back to a stupid Mafia line as a plea at the end...

But the *POP* & Maggie are still silly bits...

Napoleon Plural

Good comparison.

Much talk when FYEO came out that it would be back to FRWL in style - some chance! As one reviewer, probably John Brosnan commented, it was more a reversion to Live and Let Die in terms of general plausibility.

I prefer LALD as it does what it says on the tin, it's hokum. Fun. Larger than life. Some groundbreaking stunts as in the speedboat chase. Voodoo theme is unique for Bond. FYEO is a bit of a retread really, and first of many Bonds (or maybe it was OHMSS) that tries to be serious but doesn't quite work. Some naff corny dialogue in there and the emotional bits just don't work for me.

Dutchfinger

I like FYEO miles and miles better than LALD. I guess it's just personal oppinion. I never really liked LALD that much at all, I find it to be a very average Bond movie. Never really got along with the whole voodoo weirdness and some other bits that seem really out of place. Kananga's weird cartoony death, Baron Samedi being alive and well on the train with the evil laugh, Rosie Carver being annoying and Kanaga's rediclious Mr. Big disguise! (Also no Q, but i'm not holding that against it...)

It's not a terrible movie, there was enough to like as well, Bond tricking Solitaire into bed was plainly hilarious. But it is probably my least favorite Moore movie along with AVTAK.

FYEO on the other hand is ranked in my personal top 10, I would say it's my second favorite Moore Bond movie. Really enjoyble serious Bond movie, with the exception of having a really weird PTS.

Mr_Osato

Like all Moore movies, it is a bit of a hit and miss. My preference goes to LALD, because it had more memorable moments for me: The speed boat, the escape from the aligators (still cannot believe that was done for real!), Baron Samedi and Tee-Hee; two of the best henchmen in my book.

FYEO is quite good for a Moore flick. I always like a ski scene, the locations in Greece are quite memorable and the death of Locque was done quite well, showing Moore with an edge.

Yet, LALD has more of a fun factor, hence my preference.

chrisisall

Dutchfinger wrote:

I like FYEO miles and miles better than LALD.

Just bought a DVD of FYEO, it will be the first time I've seen it in its entirety since my last VHS viewing in the late Eighties. I'm kinda psyched.

Strangeways

Two great movies network great performances from RM.

I personally prefer LALD. Loved the locations in USA and Caribbean. It would have been great if they had incorporated part of the short story 007 in New York though, always thought they'd missed a trick there.

My best Moore movies though are Spy and MR. Awesome!

Charmed & Dangerous

Personally FYEO gets my vote. It's a much more tautly plotted film, great storyline, and most importantly it's believable. Sir Rog does his best acting in FYEO - after all he was still finding his feet in LALD which feels at times as though it was written for Connery. FYEO brought Bond back down to earth after the excesses of Moonraker. It also contains the most suspenseful scenes if the Moore canon- climbing the rock face to St Cyril's is nail biting.

Firemass

They're both decent. LALD is a lot cooler and a lot more fun. FYEO is more realistic and more story oriented.

LALD has a rockin soundtrack. FYEO does not.

LALD has a young Roger Moore. FYEO does not.

LALD has memorable villains. FYEO does not.

Both have annoying characters: JW and Bibi

Both have pretty lame pre-title sequences.

Both have good Bond girls. Solitare is perhaps the best Bond girl of the RM era.

FYEO has Q. LALD does not.

FYEO has a great car chase. LALD has a great boat chase.


Currently I would rank LALD 5th and FYEO 7th place of the Roger Moore era. As Strangeways noted above Spy and Moonraker are WAY more awesome than these low-key adventures.

chrisisall

Firemass wrote:

As Strangeways noted above Spy and Moonraker are WAY more awesome than these low-key adventures.

8-) ?:) For fun I can agree, for espionage.... ?:)

DelicatessenInSteel

This is tough FYEO is the better film but LALD is soooooo cool and entertaining. It's really cool without trying to be..I enoy LALD much more but FYEO is a great movie..conundrum..

hehadlotsofguts

Charmed & Dangerous wrote:

FYEO brought Bond back down to earth after the excesses of Moonraker

No pun intended eh? )


My vote goes to LALD for a few reasons. I feel that LALD is unique mainly because of the voodoo stuff, which hasn't been done in a Bond film, George Martin's score is the best score which wasn't done by John Barry. My favourite piece is when Bond escapes from the croc island and torches the drug lab the bass in this is amazing.

Kananga makes a good villain and i like the way he died. People complain about his death looking fake, It was played for laughs. Keep in mind the film is PG so they couldn't have loads of guts and gore. It wouldn't have suited Roger's bond anyway.

A really great film

chrisisall

hehadlotsofguts wrote:

A really great film

I agree, it just had more style & pizzaz than FYEO IMO. Hamilton's best work.

UltimateTruth

FYEO
It has everything....Great car chase, Underwater scenes, Snow scenes, good plot, .....IMO the best stuntwork in the series (the rock climbing fall-saved by the rope is spectacular.......I don't know why the ski base jump in TSWLM gets so much more attention ?).
If I have a guest over and they want to see a Moore Bond movie, I always show FYEO.
I don't dislike LALD....It's very good. I just like FYEO much more

chrisisall

UltimateTruth wrote:

FYEO
It has everything....

Even Margaret Thatcher! ) :v :007)

UltimateTruth

chrisisall wrote:

UltimateTruth wrote:

FYEO
It has everything....

Even Margaret Thatcher! ) :v :007)

You forgot Tula the tranny (google it if you don't know what I'm talking about)

UltimateTruth

Ok ......I'll save you the time. The chick in the blue bathing suit that struts by in the opening scene from the Gonzales payout pool party was really a dude. A transsexual that had the stage name of "Tula". I hope none of you guys .....ahem....."daydreamed" to that scene

Dutchfinger

UltimateTruth wrote:

Ok ......I'll save you the time. The chick in the blue bikini that struts by in the opening scene from the Gonzales payout pool party was really a dude. A transsexual that had the stage name of "Tula". I hope none of you guys .....ahem....."daydreamed" to that scene

Yeah I'm still very glad I had already learned that before I even got to the age of "daydreaming"...

Oni Alexander

UltimateTruth wrote:

FYEO
It has everything....Great car chase, Underwater scenes, Snow scenes, good plot, .....IMO the best stuntwork in the series (the rock climbing fall-saved by the rope is spectacular.......I don't know why the ski base jump in TSWLM gets so much more attention ?).
If I have a guest over and they want to see a Moore Bond movie, I always show FYEO.
I don't dislike LALD....It's very good. I just like FYEO much more

I agree with you that FYEO has everything you would want in a Bond movie (you forgot to mention the superb theme song by Sheena Easton). My beef with FYEO is that the villains in the movie were easily forgettable. We never hear Locque speak throughout the entire movie and Kristatos was hardly menacing.

LALD on the other hand, has the best set of Bond villains in my opinion. From the ever grinning Tee Hee with his metallic claw to the hilarious but cunning Baron Samedi (the man who cannot die) and of course to Dr Kananga. These trio combined with the exotic setting of the entire movie plus Solitaire just give LALD the edge. The crocodile scene is also one of the most memorable in the Bond franchise as well.

chrisisall

Oni Alexander wrote:

The crocodile scene is also one of the most memorable in the Bond franchise as well.

Plus: possibly the best song in the franchise.

hehadlotsofguts

Kristatos seemed more like a kind uncle tbh. I think Loque was made a mute to appear more menacing. The problem was he was severely underused

L Jones

I like "LIVE AND LET DIE" a lot. But I feel that "FOR YOUR EYES ONLY" was one of the best Bond movies ever. And Ari Kristotos is one of my favorite villains. I prefer bad guys who seem superficially non-threatening. I find them more dangerous.

chrisisall

L Jones wrote:

I prefer bad guys who seem superficially non-threatening. I find them more dangerous.

Yes, I know what you mean. Dominic Greene in QOS is that way for me. -{

Mr_Osato

Oni Alexander wrote:

UltimateTruth wrote:

FYEO
It has everything....Great car chase, Underwater scenes, Snow scenes, good plot, .....IMO the best stuntwork in the series (the rock climbing fall-saved by the rope is spectacular.......I don't know why the ski base jump in TSWLM gets so much more attention ?).
If I have a guest over and they want to see a Moore Bond movie, I always show FYEO.
I don't dislike LALD....It's very good. I just like FYEO much more

I agree with you that FYEO has everything you would want in a Bond movie (you forgot to mention the superb theme song by Sheena Easton). My beef with FYEO is that the villains in the movie were easily forgettable. We never hear Locque speak throughout the entire movie and Kristatos was hardly menacing.

LALD on the other hand, has the best set of Bond villains in my opinion. From the ever grinning Tee Hee with his metallic claw to the hilarious but cunning Baron Samedi (the man who cannot die) and of course to Dr Kananga. These trio combined with the exotic setting of the entire movie plus Solitaire just give LALD the edge. The crocodile scene is also one of the most memorable in the Bond franchise as well.

Agree with you there. But the previous comment does make me realize that indeed the Moore movies had the best stuntwork. The car chase is brilliant, only half ruined with the unnecesarry nod from Moore to the villains. Sure, a bit funny, but it kind of ruins the tension. Besides it was done already in the TSWLM during that chase.

Looking back, Moore's movies had great stunt teams. From the Crocodile jump in LALD (which still amazes me) to the car looop (equally amazing, done in 1 take) in the Golden gun, the ski jump, car chase in TSWLM, and all the other stunts from MR, FYEO (tons of stunts!) OP and AVTAK.

I just wonder that they build more stunts in because Moore was such a lousy fighter or that it was just a thing of those times? Either way, they had real stunts, so muchg better than that crap CGI like in DAD decades later.

BTW quite eery: 2 actors of FYEO committed suicide: The actor that played Locque and the actress that played Jakoba Brink.

Oni Alexander

Mr_Osato wrote:

BTW quite eery: 2 actors of FYEO committed suicide: The actor that played Locque and the actress that played Jakoba Brink.

Oh my God!!! That is really dreadful.

CmdrAtticus

FYEO. Not that there are no bad scenes or dialogue in the film, nor that Rog is showing his age and they went with the dated Conti score. It's only that LALD was such a huge let down for me. I felt Moore was going to be a really good Bond because of his work in the Saint. Unfortunately, he kept the smug, bad punning, playboy character EON had given birth to through the series. Then they watered down and complicated the story with the Kananga character and made the supporting villains into buffoons. What was wrong with the original story? Why make up a fictitious island and make Mr. Big it's leader? Also, the whole voodoo atmosphere was made laughable, when it should have been made more frightening or eerie. Filming the voodoo worshipping scenes on the very obvious indoor stage sets only made it worse. They could shoot the expensive stunts scenes in the US but couldn't reproduce the small jungle scenes outside on the Pinewood lot?....after re-creating Fort Knox?

With all it's failings such as the ATAC (since codes can be changed, stealing such a device by then was a waste of time) and the whole Olympic skating protege sub-plot that was totally unnecessary - I still enjoy Rog's more subdued acting and the realistic thugs and main villain. It came across as more Fleming for me than the EON candy coated version of LALD...though EON had to keep sticking in the almost Benny Hill humor of having Q show up as a monk and that Thatcher ending. It wouldn't be a Bond film without the "wink, wink..say no more" humor, after all. Right?

Blackleiter

CmdrAtticus wrote:

FYEO. Not that there are no bad scenes or dialogue in the film, nor that Rog is showing his age and they went with the dated Conti score. It's only that LALD was such a huge let down for me. I felt Moore was going to be a really good Bond because of his work in the Saint. Unfortunately, he kept the smug, bad punning, playboy character EON had given birth to through the series. Then they watered down and complicated the story with the Kananga character and made the supporting villains into buffoons. What was wrong with the original story? Why make up a fictitious island and make Mr. Big it's leader? Also, the whole voodoo atmosphere was made laughable, when it should have been made more frightening or eerie. Filming the voodoo worshipping scenes on the very obvious indoor stage sets only made it worse. They could shoot the expensive stunts scenes in the US but couldn't reproduce the small jungle scenes outside on the Pinewood lot?....after re-creating Fort Knox?

With all it's failings such as the ATAC (since codes can be changed, stealing such a device by then was a waste of time) and the whole Olympic skating protege sub-plot that was totally unnecessary - I still enjoy Rog's more subdued acting and the realistic thugs and main villain. It came across as more Fleming for me than the EON candy coated version of LALD...though EON had to keep sticking in the almost Benny Hill humor of having Q show up as a monk and that Thatcher ending. It wouldn't be a Bond film without the "wink, wink..say no more" humor, after all. Right?

Another point of agreement between us. As I have noted before, FYEO is my favorite Bond film starring Roger Moore because of the more down to earth story line and especially because of "Rog's more subdued acting and the realistic thugs and main villain." I recently watched LALD again and it doesn't hold up well over time. It has a very dated look, and the soundtrack sounds very dated as well (love the title song, though). There are a few things I really enjoy about LALD, mostly the performances by Yaphet Kotto and Julius Harris, and the walking across the backs of the crocs stunt (especially since it was real and not special effects!), but overall it was a weak entry in the series.

chrisisall

LALD was strange fun.

Mr_Osato

Definitely prefer LALD. FYEO could have been done so much better, because I still think it has too many comedy things. The wink of Moore to the driver during the chase. Unnecessarry and done before in TSWLM. The pre-title sequence was dreadful. The Bibi story. Kristatos was kind of a bland villain, especially compared to the great villains AND henchemn in LALD. And of course the Thatcher ending. Need I say mo(o)re?

FYEO to me is a missed chance.

CmdrAtticus

Blackleiter wrote:

CmdrAtticus wrote:

FYEO. Not that there are no bad scenes or dialogue in the film, nor that Rog is showing his age and they went with the dated Conti score. It's only that LALD was such a huge let down for me. I felt Moore was going to be a really good Bond because of his work in the Saint. Unfortunately, he kept the smug, bad punning, playboy character EON had given birth to through the series. Then they watered down and complicated the story with the Kananga character and made the supporting villains into buffoons. What was wrong with the original story? Why make up a fictitious island and make Mr. Big it's leader? Also, the whole voodoo atmosphere was made laughable, when it should have been made more frightening or eerie. Filming the voodoo worshipping scenes on the very obvious indoor stage sets only made it worse. They could shoot the expensive stunts scenes in the US but couldn't reproduce the small jungle scenes outside on the Pinewood lot?....after re-creating Fort Knox?

With all it's failings such as the ATAC (since codes can be changed, stealing such a device by then was a waste of time) and the whole Olympic skating protege sub-plot that was totally unnecessary - I still enjoy Rog's more subdued acting and the realistic thugs and main villain. It came across as more Fleming for me than the EON candy coated version of LALD...though EON had to keep sticking in the almost Benny Hill humor of having Q show up as a monk and that Thatcher ending. It wouldn't be a Bond film without the "wink, wink..say no more" humor, after all. Right?

Another point of agreement between us. As I have noted before, FYEO is my favorite Bond film starring Roger Moore because of the more down to earth story line and especially because of "Rog's more subdued acting and the realistic thugs and main villain." I recently watched LALD again and it doesn't hold up well over time. It has a very dated look, and the soundtrack sounds very dated as well (love the title song, though). There are a few things I really enjoy about LALD, mostly the performances by Yaphet Kotto and Julius Harris, and the walking across the backs of the crocs stunt (especially since it was real and not special effects!), but overall it was a weak entry in the series.

Yes, it's really a shame. I can't even bring myself to watching it when they televise it. It was a waste of Kotto and Harris's talents, even though you could see the quality of their acting in their scenes. At least Holder made his character interesting - another incredible actor/dancer. Always wished I could have seen him on Broadway.

I love the crocs stunt - because it shows Bond again using his ingenuity over Q's gadgets. However, the mistakes they made are a long list. Even the lighting to me in the interior Pinewood sets seemed too much like the standard "light every corner" method they used in tv sitcoms at the time...it just added to the non-believability of the whole film. What else? Moore smoking cigars. The Rosie character! As if the CIA would have someone that inept in the field. Also, did every stunt have to be set up just so it could end as a punch line? Sheriff Pepper character. Really? Why not just get Don Knots? Moore has zero chemistry with Seymour. Now, I like Seymour, but she presents the character as she herself is...an English woman. Solitaire was supposed to be from a French family from Haiti. I would have preferred a real French actress like Jacqueline Sassard.

It's all very sad. Perhaps one day they will make a Bond film using the plot from the novel and update it - though they will have to give it a different title and change the names of the characters...which is a shame. It really was a missed opportunity.