Missed opportunities
Mr_Osato
Posts: 398MI6 Agent
Apologies if this topic has been done before, but I was thinking the other day: No matter how much I love the Bond movies, I still feel that at some stages the producers/directors had great material but they got it wrong and it feels today like it is a missed opportunity.
Let me kick off:
- For your eyes only: it is quite a good story. Good because of its simplicity. No larger than life villains, no crazy gadgets. All ingredients for a serious spy movie. Unfortunately, the goof factor is still high in this movie. I like it, I think it is one of Moore's finest performances, but still it could have been done so much better. The nod in the car chase, the pre title sequence, the Thatchers, Bibi.....If they were left on the cutting floor and replaced with more depth for Loque's character for example, it could have been a classic movie.
- Die another day. This movie started of very well. Bond being captured, escaped, the Cuba sequence. This movie was very enjoyable right until the movie introduced an invisible car. After that it went completely down hill. Again a missed opportunity. It had the possibility to become a second Goldfinger if done in the right way, but it went completely off the tracks.
- Moonraker. Again a movie that started of very well. The scenes in Drax residence, the death of Corinne, some scenes in Rio and Venice. But again the goof factor took over too much: The Pigeon double take, the whole Gondola chase, the Jaws character and of course the rediculous space battle, which was a star wars rip off done badly.
- Diamonds are forever. This of course should have been a revenge story for Tracy's death. Instead we get a Blofeld in drag, lousy Bond girls, a gay hitmen couple, and other goofy things. Too bad, because the story itself had much more potential.
- You only live twice. This one hurts a bit, because it is my guilty pleasure movie and my most watched Bond movie. I love it. But, I still think it could have been done better. The Japanese make-over of Bond was far fetched, the wedding was unnecesarry. It could have been replaced with some more Tokyo shots instead.
- The world is not enough. This is an interesting one. The producers had the ambition here to bring Bond back to basics. A wounded Bond, a villain who does not feel pain, a double crossing villainess. It had great potential, but doesnt fulfill completely. The 'no pain' was underused. In fact, the whole Rennard character was underused. The locations where far from exotic, more depressing. And of course the Dr Christmas Jones character gave it a goofy feeling which was unnecesarry.
This was my list. Of all Bond's you can say something negative I suppose, but most of the time they got it right. Will be interested to read other opinions on this. Where did they not fulfill their potential?
Let me kick off:
- For your eyes only: it is quite a good story. Good because of its simplicity. No larger than life villains, no crazy gadgets. All ingredients for a serious spy movie. Unfortunately, the goof factor is still high in this movie. I like it, I think it is one of Moore's finest performances, but still it could have been done so much better. The nod in the car chase, the pre title sequence, the Thatchers, Bibi.....If they were left on the cutting floor and replaced with more depth for Loque's character for example, it could have been a classic movie.
- Die another day. This movie started of very well. Bond being captured, escaped, the Cuba sequence. This movie was very enjoyable right until the movie introduced an invisible car. After that it went completely down hill. Again a missed opportunity. It had the possibility to become a second Goldfinger if done in the right way, but it went completely off the tracks.
- Moonraker. Again a movie that started of very well. The scenes in Drax residence, the death of Corinne, some scenes in Rio and Venice. But again the goof factor took over too much: The Pigeon double take, the whole Gondola chase, the Jaws character and of course the rediculous space battle, which was a star wars rip off done badly.
- Diamonds are forever. This of course should have been a revenge story for Tracy's death. Instead we get a Blofeld in drag, lousy Bond girls, a gay hitmen couple, and other goofy things. Too bad, because the story itself had much more potential.
- You only live twice. This one hurts a bit, because it is my guilty pleasure movie and my most watched Bond movie. I love it. But, I still think it could have been done better. The Japanese make-over of Bond was far fetched, the wedding was unnecesarry. It could have been replaced with some more Tokyo shots instead.
- The world is not enough. This is an interesting one. The producers had the ambition here to bring Bond back to basics. A wounded Bond, a villain who does not feel pain, a double crossing villainess. It had great potential, but doesnt fulfill completely. The 'no pain' was underused. In fact, the whole Rennard character was underused. The locations where far from exotic, more depressing. And of course the Dr Christmas Jones character gave it a goofy feeling which was unnecesarry.
This was my list. Of all Bond's you can say something negative I suppose, but most of the time they got it right. Will be interested to read other opinions on this. Where did they not fulfill their potential?
OHMSS, FRWL, DN, GF, CR, GE, SP, YOLT, TB, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
Comments
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Nice analysis, Mr. Osato, and there is little that I disagree with. I don't know if this qualifies as a missed opportunity because this one was largely successful, but Thunderball would have been even better if the underwater sequences were shortened and more tightly edited. I still think TB is one of the classics, but it could have been improved upon.
I am especially interested where they got it wrong in terms of theme versus production. You might consider The man with the golden gun also. Without the Kung Fu weirdness and Sherrif Pepper and a more intelligen Goodnight, this movie could have been so much better.
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
TMWTGG was less a clash of titans that a boring non-shootout in a seedy seaside resort fun fare.
OP is another missed opportunity. After returning to a more serious note with FYEO they couldn't resist returning to the stupid humour with the Tarzan yell, girl attack on Kamal's HQ etc. Like TMWTGG it suffered from an identity crisis. They couldn't decide whether they were making thrillers or a comedies so ultimately they failed at both. Something that was common in the RM John Glenn movies. OP had the potential to be a great tense cold war thriller.
QOS - after the classic that was CR what a let down. Practically non-existent plot, underwritten villain, death of Mathis, where do you stop.
It really shouldn't have worked at all.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Imo you judge OP wrongly.
The main focus was on the McClory project, so OP had to convince the audience that it was a genuine 007 movie ( and these have been defined by the more entertaining movies in the prev. Decade - highly successfully!)
After it was clear that Connery would play the role, it would have been silly to counter that with a dark Moore Bond.
Imo NSNA partly suffers exactly from that: trying to be as entertaining as the Moore Bonds with a main actor Connery.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Interesting point. But it does give away again a lack of courage from the producers. Than again, maybe the producers are right. They took a chance with LTK, but than it bombed.
However, I blame low production values, lack of popularity for Dalton and heavy competition for the failure. Comppetition that year where Batman, Lethal weapon 2, Indiana Jones and the last crusade amongst others. What a great cinema year that was!
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
1) Why kill off Severine so soon. I mean, it fit the plot and Silva's introduction, but I think that she had way too much talent to have such little screen time. I would've liked to see her play a bigger role in the film.
2) Patrice --- I felt that Patrice could have been a pretty memorable henchman if he had been given more screen time and a story behind him. But then, one could argue that his lack of lines or background adds to the suspense and mystery of Silva.
These are just minor things that cross my mind in Skyfall. Throughout the entire series, I think they did everything very well. Maybe DAF was screwed up a bit, since it was so backwards compared to the grittiness of OHMSS. Other than that, I think the series did a fine job to this point. -{
1. GoldenEye 2. Goldfinger 3. Skyfall 4. OHMSS 5. TWINE
Here's my list:
FYEO- Delivered a product that was drastically different from what they set out to accomplish. Yes, they brought Bond back to earth, but no they failed in delivering a 007 film with an overall serious tone like FRWL or OHMSS.
TB- Should be a classic like the first 3, but really bogs itself down with slow pacing and tedious underwater battles.
DAD- Unlike Moonraker, DAD can't quite decide what type of film it wants to be. Could have been on par with the first 3 Brosnans but something went wrong. I still find it highly enjoyable.
OP- One of my new favorites, but seriously this one would have a much higher reputation if they refrained from adding all the silly gags. Using TSWLM as an example of a near-perfect RM Bond, I wonder why the producers felt the need to add the tarzan yell and gorilla suit etc... It's a great film if you can ignore the harmless pranks.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Nice list, Firemass, though personally I enjoy the pacing of TB and the underwater scenes. I feel it's definitely a classic!
Re FYEO- John Glen said at the time (and I'm paraphrasing) that he was aiming for the feel of FRWL but reckoned he'd come closer to OHMSS.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Not giving PB a decent script after Goldeneye must
Count. He is a better actor than some think ( which he's shown
in other films ) so IMHO it's a shame he never got to give
the same performance in a Bond.
Good one! -{
Now that truly would have been a missed opportunity, IMO.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
How dare you sir, how Very dare you !
I didn't really find that the gay hit-men detracted anything from the film, if anything they gave a more menacing and unsettling vibe to the whole film, though I will accept your opinion as I have friends who also said they didn't particularly like them.
Overall DAF was fairly disappointing, that being said it definitely had its good moments.
There has ALWAYS been an appreciation for Dalton, I suppose it just never 'found a voice' before...
I'm sorry for you that you feel 'laughing' is out if place in a serious Bond film...I wonder what you feel is acceptable...?..
You do know that the script for TLD was written before Dalton was cast as Bond...?...so the script was 'fine tuned' to the direction they decided to go with later...hence the filming of some scenes and then them missing the cut - that happens in every film...
Nobody is 're-writing history'...its just getting the 'look' it deserves...
I for one ha always thought Dalton was terrific as Bond, and since I have been a part this forum I have seen the opinions of many members who feel the same (although there are also many who disagree). I don't believe there is anything "trendy" about it. And it baffles me that you don't understand why it is generally agreed that Dalton portrayed a more serious Bond than we had seen previously (certainly more serious than Roger Moore's Bond). Sure, there may have been a couple of less than serious moments in TLD and LTK (although I don't see how Bond's laughing while enjoying the Ferris wheel ride with Kara makes TLD less serious), but overall the tone of Dalton's Bond films is decidedly different from what had come before.
If that doesn't prove it, I don't know what will.
And it's not re-writing history to reassess opinions on things.
Dalton, Connery & Brosnan rock, in my opinion. B-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
But the worst for DAD was not the invisible car. It was the terrible CGI, the terrible acting/character of Jinx and the overall cartoon atmosphere the movie got after half of the movie. Like Moonraker, the first half was quite good actually. Than it got from bad to worse.
What you call, a missed opportunity.
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore