Gardner Books

hthomas

What is the general view towards the John Gardner novels? I am new to reading Bond books. I am just finishing TMWTGG and looking forward to Solo next week. Just curious as to see if the Gardner's are worth reading.

Thunderpussy

Just my opinion, but I enjoyed the Gardner novels. Some have weak
stories and a couple seem very similar. My favourite is For special services.
I'd rate his work as better than R Benson's efforts.

Sir Miles

Gardner's books are a mixed bag...look through this forum and you'll find a number of threads that discuss his books.

The Domino Effect

I enjoyed his first ones, then kind of lost interest towards the end to be honest. I haven't re-read any since they were first published which is a long time ago, but I'd certainly give them a go in chronological order if I was you.

That said, if you're interested in continuation novels, I can highly recommend "Colonel Sun" by Robert Markham (aka Kingsley Amis). Kingsley Amis was not only a great author in his own right, but he was a friend of Fleming's and the book was written very soon after the latter's death, so the flavour is very accurate. You can pick-up a battered paperback on the internet for just a few pounds/dollars and I'd highly recommend it.

David Schofield

Depends how much time you have available, how much of a lit.Bond completest you want to be (there's a lot of continuation stuff out there and most of it is dreadful and an insult to Fleming - thanks for that, Glidrose/IFP; I know Uncle Ian's laughing at you being able to milk his cash cow after all this time, but do you have ANY self-respect?), and, of course, what sort of life you have outside Bond.

I'd read COLONEL SUN for sure, though, and Wood's SPY too. Wood's MOONRAKER is good too, though a we bit too OTT. Gardner's first couple - LICENCE RENEWED and FOR SPECIAL SERVICES - are also worth your time and work, crucially, as James Bond novels.

The rest is down to whether you've anything better to do.

Charmed & Dangerous

David Schofield wrote:

I'd read COLONEL SUN for sure, though, and Wood's SPY too. Wood's MOONRAKER is good too, though a we bit too OTT. Gardner's first couple - LICENCE RENEWED and FOR SPECIAL SERVICES - are also worth your time and work, crucially, as James Bond novels.

That's precisely my viewpoint too. Some of the later Gardener novels are quite banal but the early ones, especially Licence Renewed, work well - although none of them have the Fleming Sweep, as it's called.

Have you read all of the Fleming books yet?

chrisisall

David Schofield wrote:

I'd read COLONEL SUN for sure, though, and Wood's SPY too. Wood's MOONRAKER is good too, though a we bit too OTT. Gardner's first couple - LICENCE RENEWED and FOR SPECIAL SERVICES - are also worth your time and work, crucially, as James Bond novels.

Yes, it depends on how much free time you have. If you've a lot, I'd say try everything. If it's limited, I can say personally that Colonel Sun & Wood's TSWLM are fascinating stuff.
My time is so limited that I haven't actually gotten to much of Gardner's work, though I have a few now sitting there, staring at me, begging me to read them...
I have read through the first few chapters of Gardner's first Bond and it reads like what it is: an excellent but very different writer's way of telling a Bond tale.
FWIW.

Muston

Didn't like LICENCE RENEWED. FOR SPECIAL SERVICES was okay and ICE BREAKER I thought was the best one. But I was never sure on Gardner and I finally gave up half way into ROLL OF HONOR which I thought was just awful. Have yet to read Benson but I have his first two waiting for a rainy day. The problem for me is that I think the Bond of the books only really works well when set in his original time-frame. Trying to put a 1950's/60's spy into the 1980's was an interesting idea but it just didn't pay off. That's why, in my opinion, the best continuation Bond novels are the ones that follow Fleming's adventures. COLONEL SUN being the best thus far, then DEVIL MAY CARE, and so far (I'm 100 pages in) SOLO.

Bodie

For me the only continuation novel worth reading is Colonel Sun. It could have been written by Fleming.

Some of the early John Gardiner ones weren't bad but the later ones just seemed to merge into one and become instantly forgettable. Gardiner never seemed to get to grips with the character of Bond.

License Renewed read like the first draft of a bad film script. For Special Services was good but was let down by the 'daughters' sub plot. In Thunderball Fleming states that Blofeld has no interest in sex with either gender but in FSS he has a daughter. Also I can't honestly see Bond sleeping with Felix's daughter. Definitely a bit pervy, and at the end of the book Felix practically pimps her out to Bond. I know they are good friends but come on.

Ice Breaker suffers from to much 'is every character an enemy or ally'. Each person in the book seems to flit from being one to the other about 6 times before it is finally resolved.

Role of Honour was enjoyable enough fluff and introduced Tamil Rahani who had the potential to be a good enemy but this was totally wasted in the next novel.

Nobody Lives Forever was a good concept but badly written.

No Deals Mr. Bond was a bloody awful title, and the book wasn't much better.

After that I can't even remember the rest despite the fact I read them all.

Gardiner was quite good at coming up with Flemingesque names for the heroines - Header Dare, Stephanie Adore etc. but not much else.

Muston

Bodie wrote:

For me the only continuation novel worth reading is Colonel Sun. It could have been written by Fleming.

Some of the early John Gardiner ones weren't bad but the later ones just seemed to merge into one and become instantly forgettable. Gardiner never seemed to get to grips with the character of Bond.

License Renewed read like the first draft of a bad film script. For Special Services was good but was let down by the 'daughters' sub plot. In Thunderball Fleming states that Blofeld has no interest in sex with either gender but in FSS he has a daughter. Also I can't honestly see Bond sleeping with Felix's daughter. Definitely a bit pervy, and at the end of the book Felix practically pimps her out to Bond. I know they are good friends but come on.

Ice Breaker suffers from to much 'is every character an enemy or ally'. Each person in the book seems to flit from being one to the other about 6 times before it is finally resolved.

Role of Honour was enjoyable enough fluff and introduced Tamil Rahani who had the potential to be a good enemy but this was totally wasted in the next novel.

Nobody Lives Forever was a good concept but badly written.

No Deals Mr. Bond was a bloody awful title, and the book wasn't much better.

After that I can't even remember the rest despite the fact I read them all.

Gardiner was quite good at coming up with Flemingesque names for the heroines - Header Dare, Stephanie Adore etc. but not much else.

Agree with the daughters sub plot in FSS. I also found Bond knobbing Felix's daughter as very creepy and Bond getting horny over Blofeld's daughter having one breast was also a bit much.

Personally I let myself down as I really wanted to complete my Bond quest by reading all of Gardner and Benson's. But ROLE OF HONOR really stank for me. Maybe I should try and have another go at Gardner but I'm in no hurry.

Bodie

I wouldn't rush. It doesn't really reward the time spent. If you want to read Gardiner read the Boysie Oakes novels which are a send up of Bond or the Herbie Kruger novels. He's a much better author when he is writing about his own characters.

chrisisall

Bodie wrote:

If you want to read Gardiner read the Boysie Oakes novels which are a send up of Bond or the Herbie Kruger novels. He's a much better author when he is writing about his own characters.

Most writers are better at writing what can freely write.
From what little I've read I think I'll like Gardner's work as an Eighties period thing. )
Like the movies, each set of books by different authors seems to seems to have wide but not universal appeal.

RWIG45

David Schofield wrote:

Depends how much time you have available, how much of a lit.Bond completest you want to be (there's a lot of continuation stuff out there and most of it is dreadful and an insult to Fleming - thanks for that, Glidrose/IFP; I know Uncle Ian's laughing at you being able to milk his cash cow after all this time, but do you have ANY self-respect?), and, of course, what sort of life you have outside Bond.

I'd read COLONEL SUN for sure, though, and Wood's SPY too. Wood's MOONRAKER is good too, though a we bit too OTT. Gardner's first couple - LICENCE RENEWED and FOR SPECIAL SERVICES - are also worth your time and work, crucially, as James Bond novels.

The rest is down to whether you've anything better to do.

I think that is a bit harsh. I agree with a lot of what you said but I think the Gardener books are better than you give them credit for. Same with Raymond Benson. I liked Faulk's DEVIL MAY CARE but there was something missing, SOLO was good, but same thing, there was a missing spark. I've never been able to finish CARTE BLANCHE, though I keep trying.

Another fun read in the John Pearson THE BIOGRAPHY OF JAMES BOND 007.

Randy

RWIG45

chrisisall wrote:

David Schofield wrote:

I'd read COLONEL SUN for sure, though, and Wood's SPY too. Wood's MOONRAKER is good too, though a we bit too OTT. Gardner's first couple - LICENCE RENEWED and FOR SPECIAL SERVICES - are also worth your time and work, crucially, as James Bond novels.

Yes, it depends on how much free time you have. If you've a lot, I'd say try everything. If it's limited, I can say personally that Colonel Sun & Wood's TSWLM are fascinating stuff.
My time is so limited that I haven't actually gotten to much of Gardner's work, though I have a few now sitting there, staring at me, begging me to read them...
I have read through the first few chapters of Gardner's first Bond and it reads like what it is: an excellent but very different writer's way of telling a Bond tale.
FWIW.

I read all the Gardner's on release through the 1980's and 1990's. The ones I don't like are BROKENCLAW & COLD. The rest having variable of enjoyment with my favorites being LICENSE RENEWED, FOR SPECIAL SERVICES, ICEBREAKER and NEVER SEND FLOWERS.

Randy

RWIG45

Muston wrote:

Bodie wrote:

For me the only continuation novel worth reading is Colonel Sun. It could have been written by Fleming.

Some of the early John Gardiner ones weren't bad but the later ones just seemed to merge into one and become instantly forgettable. Gardiner never seemed to get to grips with the character of Bond.

License Renewed read like the first draft of a bad film script. For Special Services was good but was let down by the 'daughters' sub plot. In Thunderball Fleming states that Blofeld has no interest in sex with either gender but in FSS he has a daughter. Also I can't honestly see Bond sleeping with Felix's daughter. Definitely a bit pervy, and at the end of the book Felix practically pimps her out to Bond. I know they are good friends but come on.

Ice Breaker suffers from to much 'is every character an enemy or ally'. Each person in the book seems to flit from being one to the other about 6 times before it is finally resolved.

Role of Honour was enjoyable enough fluff and introduced Tamil Rahani who had the potential to be a good enemy but this was totally wasted in the next novel.

Nobody Lives Forever was a good concept but badly written.

No Deals Mr. Bond was a bloody awful title, and the book wasn't much better.

After that I can't even remember the rest despite the fact I read them all.

Gardiner was quite good at coming up with Flemingesque names for the heroines - Header Dare, Stephanie Adore etc. but not much else.

Agree with the daughters sub plot in FSS. I also found Bond knobbing Felix's daughter as very creepy and Bond getting horny over Blofeld's daughter having one breast was also a bit much.

Personally I let myself down as I really wanted to complete my Bond quest by reading all of Gardner and Benson's. But ROLE OF HONOR really stank for me. Maybe I should try and have another go at Gardner but I'm in no hurry.

I read LICENSE RENEWED when I was 12 or 13 and went onward. I had read all of the Fleming Bond's but hadn't found COLONEL SON & THE BIOGRAPHY OF JAMES BOND until the late 1980's. If I had to say 10 years ago my favorite continuation author was Gardner. Now, it's Benson, with Gardner a close second and Asmis and Pearson tied for 3rd. Wth would go to S. Faulks, 5th to William Boyd.
I haven't finished Deaver as yet or read the Higson Young Bond titles or the Moneypenny Diaries.

Randy

RWIG45

hthomas wrote:

What is the general view towards the John Gardner novels? I am new to reading Bond books. I am just finishing TMWTGG and looking forward to Solo next week. Just curious as to see if the Gardner's are worth reading.

I liked them a lot but I seem to be in a minority on this subject.

Randy

chrisisall

RWIG45 wrote:

I liked them a lot but I seem to be in a minority on this subject.

Not a bit of it; Gardner's work is highly respected by many!

Peppermill

I have not read every Gardner novel however I am slowly collecting and reading them. Some I have read years ago around the time that I started getting into Bond (almost 18 years ago) and it is amazing how much I still remember.

IanT

I actually started my foray into literary Bond via Gardner's Licence Renewed. Still one of my favourite non Fleming stories. He lost his way a bit towards the end of the series though eg COLD

Gassy Man

I read a few of Gardner's books when I was 12 or so. I recall recognizing they weren't as well written as Fleming's and that they seemed plotted more like the films than the novels. Bond drove a Saab at some point and was more heavily armed in general than he was in the originals. That's about all I remember, except a few of the names and various plot elements.