Donk is a complete Jackass!
ppw3o6r
Great BritainPosts: 2,280MI6 Agent
Well guys,
Today the one gem at the Vectis James Bond auction was the Press Presentation Royal Premier sleeve for the Corgi 269 Lotus Esprit. This is the second time the sleeve was submitted to Vectis but back in February of this year it did not sell. I've been in touch with Vectis all year to try and purchase from the seller and was happy to pay full auction commission, VAT etc and pay the high end of their estimate price.
When it was listed for the Bond auction I put a grand on it & was prepared if necessary to also bid live, that is until I was advised that it was a wrong-un in construction and the specific material it was printed on. Now usually I trust my own judgement and that judgement was telling me it was the real rare as fook mccoy and surprise surprise it was. Problem was I let myself be guided on this and instead of securing it for Donk's Dungeon by bidding live I let my absentee bid run. Long story short, it was purchased by the person I trusted who simply outbid me at the auction in person who also knew I'd been trying to secure this pre-auction.
I'm really glad I did not take this particular avenue of advice regarding the Marcel Van Cleemput C269 factory cutaway demonstration model I recently secured or I probably wouldn't have that either?
He or she? really saw me coming on this one. Lesson learned. Job done... -{
Today the one gem at the Vectis James Bond auction was the Press Presentation Royal Premier sleeve for the Corgi 269 Lotus Esprit. This is the second time the sleeve was submitted to Vectis but back in February of this year it did not sell. I've been in touch with Vectis all year to try and purchase from the seller and was happy to pay full auction commission, VAT etc and pay the high end of their estimate price.
When it was listed for the Bond auction I put a grand on it & was prepared if necessary to also bid live, that is until I was advised that it was a wrong-un in construction and the specific material it was printed on. Now usually I trust my own judgement and that judgement was telling me it was the real rare as fook mccoy and surprise surprise it was. Problem was I let myself be guided on this and instead of securing it for Donk's Dungeon by bidding live I let my absentee bid run. Long story short, it was purchased by the person I trusted who simply outbid me at the auction in person who also knew I'd been trying to secure this pre-auction.
I'm really glad I did not take this particular avenue of advice regarding the Marcel Van Cleemput C269 factory cutaway demonstration model I recently secured or I probably wouldn't have that either?
He or she? really saw me coming on this one. Lesson learned. Job done... -{
Comments
Very interesting auction.
There was another gem in there - the TB Charity Brochure; went for £695 including BP or thereabouts.
Shame you couldn't get the piece you were after, but I like to believe everything happens for a reason so hopefully you will get it one day! -{
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
It's not much consolation but what goes around, comes around....they will get theirs...I hope you are there to witness it.
I have sent John an email, nicely as I understand loss, but feel his post above is actually nasty.
We had communicated and I had informed John that I also had an interest in this piece. My misgivings were that the lighter section at the bottom of the piece made it look like a poor photocopy to me. That was my opinion based on the image and I only shared my opinion as I explained that I was going in person to check it out. It turned out to be completely geniune but badly sun faded, I bid accordingly. I feel no guilt in putting in the effort to get a piece, had I sat next to John at the auction we may have bid live against each other , to the death so to speak.
I was also after a thunderball premiere brochure, I got outbid. I don't care by who as it went above my bid and so I am very happy about that situation.
er, moderation, please....................?
I knew John was bidding on this as he knew I was. Its a public auction selling to the highest bidder. no matter what two people discuss if they both want an item there will be a battle. Public nastiness over not winning is not really cricket and whipping up a pitchfork crowd on this forum is well.........................
I remember my best mate and I both fancying this one girl, we both did the I saw her first thing, that didn't work, then we tried seeing her on different days that did not work either. eventually we worked it out fine. If anyone wants to borrow my home video "Spitroast Sara" then let me know
JR hasn't a nasty atom in his entire body. Quite the opposite, he is one of the most altruistic people on the planet.
Moderation ? Why ?
From what I've read you gave John false information....albeit with the best intentions - probably...I take it that once you ascertained it was genuine you told John of this fact ?...if you did, then fine...I have no issues with a fair fight...perhaps you would have outbid him anyway, but I guess we will never know.
Wait till a certain somebody else hears of these shenannigans B-)
as to me driving two and a half hours this morning through fog and rain just to authenticate a piece for myself then why on earth I should share that information is ludicrous to me. I had no idea, at all who was bidding against me, whether it was live. I just bid my price. For a piece that we both started talking about as we both were looking for one.
The crazy thing about this is that John had assurance from Vectis that if it did turn out to be a fake they would sort it out for him and so there was not actually a problem...................
I don't want any of this to get nasty but I do feel that it should be accurate and the trouble is there are always two sides.
I have spent 20 years helping people with the every best information I can give. Some of that information may turn out later to be incorrect but at all times it was given in good faith..........................
"I swear to god I'll pistol whip the next guy who says 'shenanigans'..."
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
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www.cancerresearchuk.org
I did the same to a friend today, I won something and he said he needed one, I have done it with others. Trouble is here I emailed John when I got home and have had no reply, just this thread. I knew nothing of the 'epic search'.
Well done on the cutaway John.
Anyway this feels like I am fighting a battle. so time for me to shut up !
I can totally understand the lengths some of us go to in order to verify, view and bid on certain items. Hats off to anyone with that level if dedication.
But regardless of the situation, if you've unintentionally misinformed someone and then realise your error, surely the moral and right thing to do would be to correct that misinformation?
It's a little odd that you try to help donk out by warning him of the possibility the item was fake, yet fail to maintain this level of helpfulness by not telling him was in fact genuine.
I'm not wanting to take sides and hopefully you two won't fall out over this but I guess the most constructive thing we can all do is learn from this and move on.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
You never read his thread on this very forum? I'd believe that but for the fact you posted in it.
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/42298/corgi-269-lotus-esprit-sleeve/
this really is a lovely place with lovely people
actually we had already been talking about another set on Ebay at the time which is why I joked - but hey I guess by this post you think I'm not telling the truth.
Nice - really nice...........................
here is my email "I am looking at the Lotus as well but I did not like the previous auction image nor this one and the construction is odd on this sleeve , the shine does not look right, looks like a photocopy from about 12 years ago also an original could not fade like that the card should be completely different. My experience with these guys is they don't care so thats why I am going up to see for myself"
The other thing MG is that when I got there and was looking through th 500 lots I was not thinking about John, but was in my "what shall I bid on" world.
In the end the sleeve was slightly different to the one I had previously had, something that did not look right until I studied it, to do with the way it was taped together. Secondly the fading on the sleeve is severe and I had assumed , incorrectly, that most of it was camera flash or reflection and that is what I could not understand based on the picture on the internet.
Now after sharing these comments in a casual email I gave it no more thought, I'd forget my girlfriends birthday if it was not tattooed on my eyelids.
So yes I could have shared, I have quoted that why should I but the reality is that I never even thought about it. But as I went there for me I cannot feel that I have let anyone down, they of course may feel that but it is what it is....... If I had said I would do something and not done that is a completely different matter ,
It's easy to get heated and jump to conclusions guys. We're fond of donk sure, but lets not jump down voituer' throat just yet.
We've pretty much spelt out the concerns, why not give the guy a chance to explain things a little more clearly so we're a little more well informed.
I suspect this could be a case of jumping to conclusions; a dangerous game if assumptions.
Over to you voituer.
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Just my take, shoot me down if you must.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Am I jealous? You bloody bet!
Do I hold a grudge about it? Not in the slightest, he only did what I tried to do, just quicker than me. He got lucky, I didn't. C'est la vie.
Best £50 they ever spent no doubt.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Donk - I hope you manage to find the item you seek -{
Have to say ASP has hit the nail on the head here....
As a beneficiary of said altruism, I can admit I actually understand and agree with the title of this thread....
Only a true jackass would give valuable items to friends, often of only a couple of yrs, simply because he tgt they would bring more enjoyment in those hands...
But if quality be the true judgement of the individual, then I can think of no one who holds a candle to John.
While I know little of the episode, and care less for the item, if there ever was a situation crying out for the judgement of Solomon, it's this one.
I was not acting as an advisor to John, but stated in an email the reason why I was travelling a very long way to an auction, one that we both agreed was pretty underwhelming, we were both interested in the same item.
If the item had turned out to be fake then I would have brought this to the attention of Andy at Vectis.
I made it very clear that I was going to bid on the Lotus. I am not sure that anyone would
a: expect me not to bid on an item that I wanted
and
b: why anyone would expect me to drive 2 1/2 hrs at 5.30 in the morning not to bid on an item if it turned out to be correct.
Over many many years this has been a constant dilemna and I guess it sounds very noble to say one would stand aside and let another through. These are only objects and not a train seat or queue in a hospital. Had this been a more common item then either of us may have backed down. Should I have asked John not to bid?
I have had occasions when going to auctions and a conflict happens then an agreement was made on who would bid, it has happened that at times the other person has not won the item and also that it may have gone for less than I would have paid.
In that situation nobody wins and one person worse than the other as he gave up his right to bid
I went yesterday with 3k in my pocket should the item indeed be correct, I was informed there was a lot of interest and I only had my own interest at heart. I would have felt no ill if another bidder had won if my bidding exhausted prematurely.
I have read on a few occasions times when people have complained that items have been pulled from auctions early to be sold outside the system and these people take it personally. Lets not forget this was attempted with this item.
Does someone want something more than me, possibly. Would I step aside , well it depends on how much I care about the item not the person. If someone was involved in completely private negotiations and these were interjected by another buying trying to steal the deal then I do not agree with that. In a public auction the bidding is wide open and fair and square whether I know my bidding opponants or not.
I have been looking to replace that piece in my collection for 5 years and I certainly did not let John know of this as its my business and I expect nothing and would not expect anyone else giving up on what they wanted.
so, I wanted to make it perfectly clear, which the original post does not. My email to John was a reply to him as to why I was travelling to an auction with very few items of interest. If that reason was taken the wrong way or influenced anything I am sorry, it certainly was not the intention and it did not occur to me.
Finally the winning bidder would have secured it anyway in a fair bidding war @ 3k as my limit was 2k + fees. regrettably. As mentioned before Job done! & I certainly was!
I don't think it's anything to do with your dedication to collecting, the miles you drive or even the weather.
The fact is you found out the item was genuine, you failed to tell donk after telling him you thought it was a fake.
Had you contacted him and said 'mate it's genuine, I'm bidding on it too so good luck and may the best collector win' then I think all this would never have blown up.
You unintentionally misinformed donk and had the chance to correct that, you didn't and that's what's grated everyone's balls.
You would have won anyway it seems, so your lack of judgement seems to have gained you nothing and lost the help and knowledge of truly one of the genuine good guys.
It's all a bit sad really, but worse that you fail to miss the pivotal point.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
The reason why I think the post was nasty and can I again clarify something to everyone. I don't think John is nasty, just that post. It infers that I manipulated this situation to my benefit. Well, I can certainly see how that conclusion could be reached. In my defence I don't think I have ever purposely done anything to harm or cheat anybody. I should have kept my opinion to myself, I was openely sharing thoughts that were mine, my doubts, and I would rather have sat at home bidding than trailing all that way.
When I replied to you yesterday, post auction, I had no idea that this would be the reaction and if we had possibly talked this through who knows. I was unbelievably shocked at the post, to me it came out of the blue.
Had we been stood together at the auction looking at the piece I could have explained where it differed to the one I had previously owned - we did not get that chance. Had I said to you do not bid, its definatley a fake then again I could have sat at home and romped it.
You were not done by me on purpose John, that may seem like the result and like I have stated I am truly sorry about that.
there are many things we disagree with but I guess not this post, the only thing I can say is that between me sharing those thoughts and returning back from the auction I had no idea what John was thinking or of any impact that my opinion had. It did not occur to me for one second that we were doing anything more than bantering.
I do certainly get the picture but it was not intentional, there are many things that people do not do and if neither of us had won this piece would I still be blamed ....... well I cannot say but I hope you know what I mean.
I hope you and donk can work this out, I've not heard from him privately about this and I'm not gonna get myself deeper involved.
I guess honesty pays more than anything and hopefully we can all learn from this.
I can understand both sides of the story and hope you guys can come to a positive conclusion.
MG -{
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org