I was at this auction and I'd like to give my views on the situation at hand.
I have spoken with Nick many times and I find him a great person and collector. It was also great to finally meet him! I have spoken with John over email and I too find him a great person and collector.
Therefore, my views are based on how I see it and NOT in any way meant to cause offence to anyone involved.
I think the flack Nick has received is a little unfair.
At the auction, I knew Nick was after toys; he knew I was after posters. He let me know a few items that he was going to bid on which included a couple of posters. And I have to say, I admire him for doing that because he is right - in auctions, you have to put aside any differences, any friendship etc if you really want an item. There was no point in me stating what I was interested in as everybody knew in any case!
It's already been mentioned that if a friend or a person you know is looking at a particular item, you may wish to step aside and let them have it so-to-speak. Fantastic and very noble. This happened to me at this very auction. My mate who sold his poster collection last year at Profiles deliberately did not bid on certain items as he knew I wanted them for my personal collection. That was HIS prerogative. I did not bid on items he was interested in and that was MY prerogative. This is an understanding we have and anyone else in the same scenario can say the same, yet I know other friends of mine were bidding against me and that was fine! I both won and lost items.
But conversely, if you really want an item why should you tell anyone?
There were two items in that auction I specifically wanted over all others and only I knew which ones they were.
I fully understand where Nick is coming from regarding the point that he gave John no thought when he was at the auction. When you are actually in the room, sometimes you meet with friends, talk to collectors, consignors, auctioneers and inspect the lots you are after for yourself. You can easily get caught up in auction fever, the event and forget about outside distractions or conversations you had about it.
Nick gave John his thoughts on a piece and decided he would drive up to the auction to see it in person. I do believe he simply forgot about John when his own opinions were proven to be wrong. I also believe Nick did not mean any malice towards him.
If I was John, yes, I would feel annoyed.
Amongst other things, I would be thinking "Why the hell didn't he call me!?".
It would do my nut in!
However, I would know Nick did not do it intentionally and I would regret not bidding on it because I know if it was proven to be fake, Vectis would refund the monies. I would also regret not making the trip to Vectis at some point between February and Friday past to inspect it myself and not calling Nick at the auction as if he had said the piece was still wrong after inspecting it, then bought it himself knowing it was real, I would have a bona fide reason to be more than upset.
Best wishes,
Adam Carter-Jones Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
In defence of donk, who I've met a couple of times;
I have a mate, my best mate from school actually who's a bit tapped and for some reason he wants a Luger from WWII. I dunno why but he's always wanted one since we were at school over 15 years ago. He's also into mooching around antique places, especially ones that feature military or war memorabilia.
On my travels through life I frequent all kinds of places and look up all odds n sod all over. Whenever I'm in a shop that sells war stuff, or searching online for something gunny, I just take two secs to enquire if they've got a Luger. I was searching for a p99 on gunstar the other day, so popped in Luger into the search while I was there. Another mate of mine said he'd been in a shop where they had a sten gun hanging from the ceiling, so I text him back to ask if they'd got a Luger for my other mate. You get the picture, I keep an eye out in case there's a bargain Luger going out there.
Now whenever I see my Luger hunting mate, he never asks me about if I've found one, but if I happen to have seen one somewhere, I'll certainly tell him. It's just one of those things that after years of looking neither him, me, or anyone else needs reminding that he'd like a Luger. Also bear in mind that as my mate serves in the RAF, I seldom get to see him on a regular basis, it's usually months between meeting up for a pint, in fact at the moment he's on holiday counting penguins and sheep in some desolate rocky outcrop nicknamed Las Maldivas to them argies, but otherwise known as their proper title, The Falkland Islands.
Now, coming back to the topic in hand, the thing that occurs to me is that if I can remember to look out for a Luger (and people who know me certainly know how good all 8bits of my memory are) for my mate without any reminders or hints from him, how come nick didn't remember to tell donk that the item in question was genuine and not a fake as he'd previously told him, especially as the pair had communicated less than 24hrs prior to nick looking at said item in the flesh as it were?
How's this for a curve ball, I think, after looking over the facts, that nick knew john was after this corgi since March time, knew donk was serious collecting competition, possibly unintentionally misinformed donk as to the authenticity of the corgi but on realising his assumptions about this were incorrect, he chose not to inform him of the fact.
I just don't buy it that you can be stood looking at something in an auction house and completely forget about the other fella who you spoke to about this very item not more than 24hrs before.
Guys,
This post was never supposed to be a witch hunt or the reporting of an individual (it still isn't) but the reporting of a "Bond Experience" and a crappy one at that!
From collectible posts on this very forum or those who know me?, it is known that Donk has been actively trying to obtain two rare Corgi models. The C269 Factory Demonstrator and C269 Press Screening TSWLM Royal Premiere giveaway model to complete my C269 rarities collection & this active quest has been ongoing since 1996 when I first saw the 3 items in The James Bond Diecasts of Corgi by Dave Worrall. With the sleeve my preference was for an unsigned one as most of the signed examples may have been dodgy?. There was no interest in the Vectis sleeve of February 2013 & pretty much the same for October 2013. Personally I was going for it because it was unsigned plain & simple and from the few images I had of a genuine sleeve to me it looked right & these beliefs I shared. If I had not received the pm which "placed doubt" as to the authenticity of the piece the evening before the auction in particular "it looked like a photocopy from 12 years previous" I would have gone for it big style, if you can call 2k big style? well with a 200 quid opening bid I certainly do.
My reply to the pm was pretty much can you let me know if it's genuine or reproduction? and I honestly thought I would get an update before the 10.30am deadline to be able to double my absentee bid if necessary.....stupid I grant you upon reflection but as the title of the post suggested "Donk is a complete Jackass!" & that is ALL it suggested.
Guys,
This post was never supposed to be a witch hunt or the reporting of an individual (it still isn't) but the reporting of a "Bond Experience" and a crappy one at that!
From collectible posts on this very forum or those who know me?, it is known that Donk has been actively trying to obtain two rare Corgi models. The C269 Factory Demonstrator and C269 Press Screening TSWLM Royal Premiere giveaway model to complete my C269 rarities collection & this active quest has been ongoing since 1996 when I first saw the 3 items in The James Bond Diecasts of Corgi by Dave Worrall. With the sleeve my preference was for an unsigned one as most of the signed examples may have been dodgy?. There was no interest in the Vectis sleeve of February 2013 & pretty much the same for October 2013. Personally I was going for it because it was unsigned plain & simple and from the few images I had of a genuine sleeve to me it looked right & these beliefs I shared. If I had not received the pm which "placed doubt" as to the authenticity of the piece the evening before the auction in particular "it looked like a photocopy from 12 years previous" I would have gone for it big style, if you can call 2k big style? well with a 200 quid opening bid I certainly do.
My reply to the pm was pretty much can you let me know if it's genuine or reproduction? and I honestly thought I would get an update before the 10.30am deadline to be able to double my absentee bid if necessary.....stupid I grant you upon reflection but as the title of the post suggested "Donk is a complete Jackass!" & that is ALL it suggested.
This is indeed an unfortunate incident. I think both "Donk" and "Nick" contribute greatly to this forum and would hate for either of them to stop coming here. However, I do feel that "Nick" did take advantage of the situation to ensure lack of completion from "Donk". To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Owning it is better than claiming that's not what happened. That is, if you want my continued respect.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I see where you're coming from MG and John, for sure.
I don't know Nick like I know my brother, but the reason I am inclined to disbelieve he acted in a deplorable manner is because one of my friends, another poster collector, is prone to the odd lapse of memory (in collecting and life!) and it drives me crazy! I'm sure the good folk here have friends and/or family with similar ailments.
For instance, there have been a couple of times when I have spoken with the friend in question on the morning of an auction and when he's got there completely forgot to bid on the item I REALLY wanted. And it's nothing against him, as I know he didn't buy the item I was after; he's just a forgetful git at times. Needless to say, if I do REALLY want an item, I make sure the lad knows about it as I drum it into him the night before and call him before the auction starts.
I think John is a superb collector - I don't believe anybody has a bad word to say about him, apart from himself, you JACKASS you )
I mean, I was a jackass myself at this auction as I did not bid on a particular item I believe went too cheap; I knew I could have sold it for a profit and reinvested that profit into an item I needed for my personal collection.
Live and let live!
I am SURE you will get one of these piece some day, John, and remember everything happens for a reason, so it could work out for the best should a mint example come across your path.
This happened with me in regards to a non-Bond poster.
I had been looking for a near mint to mint example for seven years...then I found it for just $100 - bargain and completed that small collection!
Best wishes,
Adam Carter-Jones Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
Well, from my perspective, everybody makes mistakes. There is not one of us on here who has not been tempted by the devil and done the wrong thing. But, in my view, trying to make excuses for bad behavior, or a momentary lapse in judgement is even worse. To put it rather bluntly, men man up and little boys don't.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Nick has been a very kind person to me in our dealings. Nick and John have amazing collections and keep amazing history on our man OO7 and share with it others most kindly.
I call for mercy overall from everyone! I've been accused of things I didn't do and decided, DG, not to "man up" for something I didn't do! But people gossip and I'm sure there are people here who think I'm a nutter or a loser. Whatcha gonna do...
What I'd recommend Donk and Nick do is consider how much both of their top bids would have been (if by private PMs or whatever). I missed some things I wanted from Vectis then thought, "Yes, I could have gotten that for 30 pounds, but then someone surely would have bid 35" and perhaps Nick would like to resell his win to Donk to keep the peace.
Don't get me wrong, I think Nick is a valuable asset to AJB. From my vantage point, he's an expert in this area. I also undersatand the desire to obtain something that has long been out of reach. I can also understand how that can skew ones judgement. I don't think Nick is a bad guy, after all, he manned up by outing himself. Nevertheless, I think most of us can agree that it was crappy the way things went down. I mean if you tell a competitor you think an item is crap and then later find out it is not without divulging the information and then bid on said item and win, you've just stacked the deck in your favor. If you claim it isn't so, you've got your head in the sand.
For Nick to give the item to Donk, perhaps at cost, would be a very tough thing to do. But it would also be very manly and oh so "cricket".
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
...and perhaps Nick would like to resell his win to Donk to keep the peace.
That's a possibility as I believe Nick said somewhere in this thread he already has one? If so, win win situation for everyone involved given what has happened?
Best wishes,
Adam Carter-Jones Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
Don't get me wrong, I think Nick is a valuable asset to AJB. From my vantage point, he's an expert in this area. I also undersatand the desire to obtain something that has long been out of reach. I can also understand how that can skew ones judgement. I don't think Nick is a bad guy, after all, he manned up by outing himself. Nevertheless, I think most of us can agree that it was crappy the way things went down. I mean if you tell a competitor you think an item is crap and then later find out it is not without divulging the information and then bid on said item and win, you've just stacked the deck in your favor. If you claim it isn't so, you've got your head in the sand.
For Nick to give the item to Donk, perhaps at cost, would be a very tough thing to do. But it would also be very manly and oh so "cricket".
DG
Yes, of course. I certainly understand both perspectives:
*I can imagine what Donk is feeling right now. Believe me, I really can.
*I can imagine telling a collecting pal, "I'm not sure. The wraps on this book look weird and I'm going to figure it out in person tomorrow" and then getting distracted by some of the 600 other auction lots while lusting over my gem and maybe not having someone's email on my phone or whatever. It was gentlemanly of Nick to say he won the item--I know I've been scared to tell some people I've won items because of anger and jealousy--and I still give tours of my collection all the time despite horror stories from friends of collectibles that magically leave their premises on their own!
Comments
I was at this auction and I'd like to give my views on the situation at hand.
I have spoken with Nick many times and I find him a great person and collector. It was also great to finally meet him! I have spoken with John over email and I too find him a great person and collector.
Therefore, my views are based on how I see it and NOT in any way meant to cause offence to anyone involved.
I think the flack Nick has received is a little unfair.
At the auction, I knew Nick was after toys; he knew I was after posters. He let me know a few items that he was going to bid on which included a couple of posters. And I have to say, I admire him for doing that because he is right - in auctions, you have to put aside any differences, any friendship etc if you really want an item. There was no point in me stating what I was interested in as everybody knew in any case!
It's already been mentioned that if a friend or a person you know is looking at a particular item, you may wish to step aside and let them have it so-to-speak. Fantastic and very noble. This happened to me at this very auction. My mate who sold his poster collection last year at Profiles deliberately did not bid on certain items as he knew I wanted them for my personal collection. That was HIS prerogative. I did not bid on items he was interested in and that was MY prerogative. This is an understanding we have and anyone else in the same scenario can say the same, yet I know other friends of mine were bidding against me and that was fine! I both won and lost items.
But conversely, if you really want an item why should you tell anyone?
There were two items in that auction I specifically wanted over all others and only I knew which ones they were.
I fully understand where Nick is coming from regarding the point that he gave John no thought when he was at the auction. When you are actually in the room, sometimes you meet with friends, talk to collectors, consignors, auctioneers and inspect the lots you are after for yourself. You can easily get caught up in auction fever, the event and forget about outside distractions or conversations you had about it.
Nick gave John his thoughts on a piece and decided he would drive up to the auction to see it in person. I do believe he simply forgot about John when his own opinions were proven to be wrong. I also believe Nick did not mean any malice towards him.
If I was John, yes, I would feel annoyed.
Amongst other things, I would be thinking "Why the hell didn't he call me!?".
It would do my nut in!
However, I would know Nick did not do it intentionally and I would regret not bidding on it because I know if it was proven to be fake, Vectis would refund the monies. I would also regret not making the trip to Vectis at some point between February and Friday past to inspect it myself and not calling Nick at the auction as if he had said the piece was still wrong after inspecting it, then bought it himself knowing it was real, I would have a bona fide reason to be more than upset.
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
In defence of donk, who I've met a couple of times;
I have a mate, my best mate from school actually who's a bit tapped and for some reason he wants a Luger from WWII. I dunno why but he's always wanted one since we were at school over 15 years ago. He's also into mooching around antique places, especially ones that feature military or war memorabilia.
On my travels through life I frequent all kinds of places and look up all odds n sod all over. Whenever I'm in a shop that sells war stuff, or searching online for something gunny, I just take two secs to enquire if they've got a Luger. I was searching for a p99 on gunstar the other day, so popped in Luger into the search while I was there. Another mate of mine said he'd been in a shop where they had a sten gun hanging from the ceiling, so I text him back to ask if they'd got a Luger for my other mate. You get the picture, I keep an eye out in case there's a bargain Luger going out there.
Now whenever I see my Luger hunting mate, he never asks me about if I've found one, but if I happen to have seen one somewhere, I'll certainly tell him. It's just one of those things that after years of looking neither him, me, or anyone else needs reminding that he'd like a Luger. Also bear in mind that as my mate serves in the RAF, I seldom get to see him on a regular basis, it's usually months between meeting up for a pint, in fact at the moment he's on holiday counting penguins and sheep in some desolate rocky outcrop nicknamed Las Maldivas to them argies, but otherwise known as their proper title, The Falkland Islands.
Now, coming back to the topic in hand, the thing that occurs to me is that if I can remember to look out for a Luger (and people who know me certainly know how good all 8bits of my memory are) for my mate without any reminders or hints from him, how come nick didn't remember to tell donk that the item in question was genuine and not a fake as he'd previously told him, especially as the pair had communicated less than 24hrs prior to nick looking at said item in the flesh as it were?
How's this for a curve ball, I think, after looking over the facts, that nick knew john was after this corgi since March time, knew donk was serious collecting competition, possibly unintentionally misinformed donk as to the authenticity of the corgi but on realising his assumptions about this were incorrect, he chose not to inform him of the fact.
I just don't buy it that you can be stood looking at something in an auction house and completely forget about the other fella who you spoke to about this very item not more than 24hrs before.
That's just my take on it.
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
This post was never supposed to be a witch hunt or the reporting of an individual (it still isn't) but the reporting of a "Bond Experience" and a crappy one at that!
From collectible posts on this very forum or those who know me?, it is known that Donk has been actively trying to obtain two rare Corgi models. The C269 Factory Demonstrator and C269 Press Screening TSWLM Royal Premiere giveaway model to complete my C269 rarities collection & this active quest has been ongoing since 1996 when I first saw the 3 items in The James Bond Diecasts of Corgi by Dave Worrall. With the sleeve my preference was for an unsigned one as most of the signed examples may have been dodgy?. There was no interest in the Vectis sleeve of February 2013 & pretty much the same for October 2013. Personally I was going for it because it was unsigned plain & simple and from the few images I had of a genuine sleeve to me it looked right & these beliefs I shared. If I had not received the pm which "placed doubt" as to the authenticity of the piece the evening before the auction in particular "it looked like a photocopy from 12 years previous" I would have gone for it big style, if you can call 2k big style? well with a 200 quid opening bid I certainly do.
My reply to the pm was pretty much can you let me know if it's genuine or reproduction? and I honestly thought I would get an update before the 10.30am deadline to be able to double my absentee bid if necessary.....stupid I grant you upon reflection but as the title of the post suggested "Donk is a complete Jackass!" & that is ALL it suggested.
Donk, you're a jackass.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I don't know Nick like I know my brother, but the reason I am inclined to disbelieve he acted in a deplorable manner is because one of my friends, another poster collector, is prone to the odd lapse of memory (in collecting and life!) and it drives me crazy! I'm sure the good folk here have friends and/or family with similar ailments.
For instance, there have been a couple of times when I have spoken with the friend in question on the morning of an auction and when he's got there completely forgot to bid on the item I REALLY wanted. And it's nothing against him, as I know he didn't buy the item I was after; he's just a forgetful git at times. Needless to say, if I do REALLY want an item, I make sure the lad knows about it as I drum it into him the night before and call him before the auction starts.
I think John is a superb collector - I don't believe anybody has a bad word to say about him, apart from himself, you JACKASS you
I mean, I was a jackass myself at this auction as I did not bid on a particular item I believe went too cheap; I knew I could have sold it for a profit and reinvested that profit into an item I needed for my personal collection.
Live and let live!
I am SURE you will get one of these piece some day, John, and remember everything happens for a reason, so it could work out for the best should a mint example come across your path.
This happened with me in regards to a non-Bond poster.
I had been looking for a near mint to mint example for seven years...then I found it for just $100 - bargain and completed that small collection!
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I call for mercy overall from everyone! I've been accused of things I didn't do and decided, DG, not to "man up" for something I didn't do! But people gossip and I'm sure there are people here who think I'm a nutter or a loser. Whatcha gonna do...
What I'd recommend Donk and Nick do is consider how much both of their top bids would have been (if by private PMs or whatever). I missed some things I wanted from Vectis then thought, "Yes, I could have gotten that for 30 pounds, but then someone surely would have bid 35" and perhaps Nick would like to resell his win to Donk to keep the peace.
My $0.02.
For Nick to give the item to Donk, perhaps at cost, would be a very tough thing to do. But it would also be very manly and oh so "cricket".
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
That's a possibility as I believe Nick said somewhere in this thread he already has one? If so, win win situation for everyone involved given what has happened?
Adam Carter-Jones
Bondposters.com - FREE James Bond Poster Reference site
Yes, of course. I certainly understand both perspectives:
*I can imagine what Donk is feeling right now. Believe me, I really can.
*I can imagine telling a collecting pal, "I'm not sure. The wraps on this book look weird and I'm going to figure it out in person tomorrow" and then getting distracted by some of the 600 other auction lots while lusting over my gem and maybe not having someone's email on my phone or whatever. It was gentlemanly of Nick to say he won the item--I know I've been scared to tell some people I've won items because of anger and jealousy--and I still give tours of my collection all the time despite horror stories from friends of collectibles that magically leave their premises on their own!