That's really nice; I've not heard of that before. It made me think of the Smiths too but I might even prefer it. And they actually seem to let people buy it, which is an advantage! 😁
I know it's ancient news to many, but new to me thanks to imranbecks, and I thought others might not know it: the Skyfall Planet Ocean had a version especially made in titanium for the film. Pretty special indeed. And look how much it made at auction! 😁
Rather than making a new thread I'll just post in here instead: But on the subject of the Gruen used in Connery's tenure, how do we actually know it's the exact model that's being posted on various blogs and websites?
All info I've found can be summed up to "after years of research it can be determined to be the Gruen caliber 510" and then with the watch listed in the picture below. With that said, if I'm allowed to be a bit critical: There are several variants of the 510, also I'm somewhat sceptical to how we got to that conclusion in the first place? As there is no clear view of the watch at all other than the rough shape of the case and color of the metal/dial.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,533MI6 Agent
edited October 2022
This has been discussed many times. With UHD now available for Connerys films it’s very doubtful it’s a Gruen. More likely a Smiths. Gruen was just a brand a member here picked out of the air and ran with it like a loon on numerous magazine articles that gained prominence. There is no evidence at all. And as it’s an obscure US brand not available over here, and Smiths being very prevalent within U.K. society at the time, odds are it was a Smiths deluxe. The odds of it being a Gruen are lower than Connery wearing bright yellow Y-fronts with brown piping during his entire Bond tenure. The exact make and model we will never know though. Watch that is, not Y-fronts.
Finally an awnser that makes sense. I assumed one of two things: Either there was some behind the scenes photos where we can clearly see the watch, or what you just mentioned.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,533MI6 Agent
Sadly there are no behind the scenes photos. There are some clearer images. But you can’t make out any dial detail at all. Loads of us have spent years, and I mean over a decade now, in getting to the bottom of the story. But the long and short of it, is that a Gruen being used makes absolutely no sense. It was chosen by an eager amateur American watch enthusiast years ago, he had never heard of Smiths and had/has no idea of the watch market within the U.K. Its like a Russian watch fan watching it and saying it was a Vostok.
It's almost sad considering the second hand market. I've watched the Gruen somewhat regularly and the majority of them are listed as "James Bond 510 watch" (even though this apply to several different models, if you are to judge from c24/ebay) and from what I can tell, the 510 seen in the picture have gone from €250-€500, to borderline Seamaster 300 Quartz money.
Sure it's a nice watch, but I can't see anything other than the "Bond-Branding" as the reason for the rapid increse in price, and to know it is all based on bad assumption?
I might be wrong but he seems to be wearing a similar watch in the famous tailoring shots, not sure if it's the same one or if it's even possible to tell. It's not impossible that it may be a watch from overseas as he had worked on a Disney film in the US by that point, but as mentioned above, it's all just guesswork and better to go with what's more likely.
Not really the best thread for it probably, but I was just reading about Joe Caroff, the man who designed the 007 logo, and apparently for his 100th birthday last year Eon sent him a watch engraved '007', and I would imagine it's the one he's wearing here as it's rather recognisable!
(He designed the West Side Story logo too of course)
I’ve yet to see a side by side photo of a Gruen next to a still or photo of Connery wearing the watch that actually demonstrates they are visibly similar.
I don't know how many use the and have received Kristian's email regarding the NATO copyright issue. Sounds crazy and must be so frustrating.. for these small businesses😤
As you may have noticed, Shopify suspended our store this week due to an alleged trademark infringement. So it turns out that some 'clever' chap has managed to trademark the word 'NATO' for watch and watchstrap related products. So a NATO strap in the USA can't be called a NATO Strap unless you have permission to use the name from the trademark owner. I know, right?
The guy who owns the trademark is Ron E Sabo through his company International Watchman Inc and he has successfully defended his trademark for the last 20 years from lots of watchstrap makers and sellers in the USA and he has sued them and won.
Good or bad and whether you agree with it or not, its pretty clear that we cannot trade in the USA unless we pay this guy.
Also because the word NATO is in our domain name even though we are a UK company and the trademark is for the USA only, if we continue to trade under the name NATOSTRAPSTORE he can attempt to sue us and Shopify could close us down.
So today we very sadly have to say goodbye to our U.S customers as we can no longer sell in the USA unless we pay Ron. E Sabo of Brunswick, Ohio money.
Further to that we have had to change the name of the store and the domain to NOTOSTRAPSTORE.
So we can continue to sell NATO straps in the UK and worldwide but not in the USA.
Thanks for bearing with us during this very stressful time
Jeez why would anyone buy watch straps from this clown. 5 minutes of googling finds he has a criminal record for being a sex offender. The International Watchman website looks like its stuck in 1993 and his Facebook "shop" looks half assed. This guy deserves to go out of business with this ludicrous stunt.
I decided that I don't like the idea of the gold watch worn by Connery to remain anonyms, hence I've invested in some online archival research. Surprisingly, there are a lot of high-quality photos of Connery from behind the scenes of the early Bond era, however most of the time he is wearing the 6538 Sub, no watch or frustratingly enough, his left wrist is juuuuust shy of being out of frame.
Although I have one picture of what I strongly believe to be the mystery watch. It is really hard to tell what it is, but it provides some guidelines.
Based on the theory of it being Seans personal watch I dugged a bit deeper and found some photos taken in 1968 where we can see him wearing a watch with a somewhat similar appearance.
But when comparing it to the BTS and screen grabs from Dr.No I have my doubt as it looks like the lugs are different along with the hands (again, really hard to tell).
I'm still digging, but we can barley make out some basic shapes of the hands at least.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,533MI6 Agent
edited October 2022
It was the first image in your post that made me think it was Smiths. The end of the lug looks slightly bulbous which was a feature of some Deluxe models. My Grandfather had one given to him for 20 years service in 1964.
Hopefully, before I turn my toes up, some behind the scenes still that’s been hidden away in some crew members drawer somewhere, will finally see the light of day. And it will have a magnificent close up of the watch.
I might have found a good picture of the watch that is seen on Sean's wrist in the famous "tailor" photo, based on it having the same type of strap (some sort of loop strap, perlon perhaps?)
Now the colourized photo is allegedly taken in 1962. Filming of Dr.No took place from Jan 16 to March 15 the same year, so it would be in the same time frame. However this is where I take issue and a bit hesitant to claim it to be the same watch.
Now, if I understand correctly, the tailor photo is taken before filming of Dr.No, and the picture linked above is likely taken during of post filming. But in the film it "looks" like it's on a more traditional leather strap?
That would mean the watch is on strap one (let's call it a perlon for now out if simplicity, even though it's not confirmed) before filming, then during the production of Dr.No it's on a leather strap, and after production it's back on the "perlon" strap? Assuming the photo is taken after filming, if it's during production then that would be even more concerning.
My point is that it feels unlikely for the watch to switch between straps in-between photos, this is my main issue with the theory of it being the same watch.
However, it does seem to fit the same profile as the watch from the BTS stills from Dr.No. So, if we could find some pictures that shows the very distinguished strap from the tailor photo connected to Sean's wrist during filming of Dr.No (or subsequent films such as FRWL etc) then I think we can make a good claim to the two watches being one and the same. Thus also mean that we have a good photo of the face of the mystery watch.
Comments
@The Red Kind I actually bought it back in January, but haven't really started wearing it (a lot) until recently.
Instagram: 007flavoured
That's really nice; I've not heard of that before. It made me think of the Smiths too but I might even prefer it. And they actually seem to let people buy it, which is an advantage! 😁
As it’s Wednesday…
An interesting and informed Podcast debating ‘the best Bond watch’.
Well worth viewing and with a very interesting discussion on the cost of Omega’s tie-in.
https://youtu.be/LtVpCA8LTCo
Interesting how little attention is paid to the Submariners in that video. Pretty cool that the TLD Heuer gets quite a bit love though.
I know it's ancient news to many, but new to me thanks to imranbecks, and I thought others might not know it: the Skyfall Planet Ocean had a version especially made in titanium for the film. Pretty special indeed. And look how much it made at auction! 😁
I wonder if that's partly why Mr Craig may have specced the NTTD in titanium.
Yes some forum members have made the Titanium version using 2 diff PO models
Oh wow that's very cool.
arrived on Wednesday, so hope that this is on-topic
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Does it come in green? :)
Interesting 😎
Of course!!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Looks blue to me 😊
i changed the strap on my Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military…
Amazing how just changing a strap can change the whole personality of a watch.
Rather than making a new thread I'll just post in here instead: But on the subject of the Gruen used in Connery's tenure, how do we actually know it's the exact model that's being posted on various blogs and websites?
All info I've found can be summed up to "after years of research it can be determined to be the Gruen caliber 510" and then with the watch listed in the picture below. With that said, if I'm allowed to be a bit critical: There are several variants of the 510, also I'm somewhat sceptical to how we got to that conclusion in the first place? As there is no clear view of the watch at all other than the rough shape of the case and color of the metal/dial.
This has been discussed many times. With UHD now available for Connerys films it’s very doubtful it’s a Gruen. More likely a Smiths. Gruen was just a brand a member here picked out of the air and ran with it like a loon on numerous magazine articles that gained prominence. There is no evidence at all. And as it’s an obscure US brand not available over here, and Smiths being very prevalent within U.K. society at the time, odds are it was a Smiths deluxe. The odds of it being a Gruen are lower than Connery wearing bright yellow Y-fronts with brown piping during his entire Bond tenure. The exact make and model we will never know though. Watch that is, not Y-fronts.
Finally an awnser that makes sense. I assumed one of two things: Either there was some behind the scenes photos where we can clearly see the watch, or what you just mentioned.
Sadly there are no behind the scenes photos. There are some clearer images. But you can’t make out any dial detail at all. Loads of us have spent years, and I mean over a decade now, in getting to the bottom of the story. But the long and short of it, is that a Gruen being used makes absolutely no sense. It was chosen by an eager amateur American watch enthusiast years ago, he had never heard of Smiths and had/has no idea of the watch market within the U.K. Its like a Russian watch fan watching it and saying it was a Vostok.
It's almost sad considering the second hand market. I've watched the Gruen somewhat regularly and the majority of them are listed as "James Bond 510 watch" (even though this apply to several different models, if you are to judge from c24/ebay) and from what I can tell, the 510 seen in the picture have gone from €250-€500, to borderline Seamaster 300 Quartz money.
Sure it's a nice watch, but I can't see anything other than the "Bond-Branding" as the reason for the rapid increse in price, and to know it is all based on bad assumption?
Not only this, but the style of watch is nothing unusual, so it could be just about any widely available European make.
I have always advocated the idea that it was a Zenith, and this has nothing to do with the fact that I own one. 😜 This is not mine, but similar.
-Mr Arlington Beech
I might be wrong but he seems to be wearing a similar watch in the famous tailoring shots, not sure if it's the same one or if it's even possible to tell. It's not impossible that it may be a watch from overseas as he had worked on a Disney film in the US by that point, but as mentioned above, it's all just guesswork and better to go with what's more likely.
Not really the best thread for it probably, but I was just reading about Joe Caroff, the man who designed the 007 logo, and apparently for his 100th birthday last year Eon sent him a watch engraved '007', and I would imagine it's the one he's wearing here as it's rather recognisable!
(He designed the West Side Story logo too of course)
I’ve yet to see a side by side photo of a Gruen next to a still or photo of Connery wearing the watch that actually demonstrates they are visibly similar.
I don't know how many use the and have received Kristian's email regarding the NATO copyright issue. Sounds crazy and must be so frustrating.. for these small businesses😤
Not sure how the big boys get round it? Eg OMEGA; https://www.omegawatches.com/en-gb/?search=nato
Dear customer,
First the good news:
Our store is back and open again.
As you may have noticed, Shopify suspended our store this week due to an alleged trademark infringement. So it turns out that some 'clever' chap has managed to trademark the word 'NATO' for watch and watchstrap related products. So a NATO strap in the USA can't be called a NATO Strap unless you have permission to use the name from the trademark owner. I know, right?
The guy who owns the trademark is Ron E Sabo through his company International Watchman Inc and he has successfully defended his trademark for the last 20 years from lots of watchstrap makers and sellers in the USA and he has sued them and won.
Good or bad and whether you agree with it or not, its pretty clear that we cannot trade in the USA unless we pay this guy.
Also because the word NATO is in our domain name even though we are a UK company and the trademark is for the USA only, if we continue to trade under the name NATOSTRAPSTORE he can attempt to sue us and Shopify could close us down.
So today we very sadly have to say goodbye to our U.S customers as we can no longer sell in the USA unless we pay Ron. E Sabo of Brunswick, Ohio money.
Further to that we have had to change the name of the store and the domain to NOTOSTRAPSTORE.
So we can continue to sell NATO straps in the UK and worldwide but not in the USA.
Thanks for bearing with us during this very stressful time
Kristian
NOTOSTRAPSTORE.COM
Jeez why would anyone buy watch straps from this clown. 5 minutes of googling finds he has a criminal record for being a sex offender. The International Watchman website looks like its stuck in 1993 and his Facebook "shop" looks half assed. This guy deserves to go out of business with this ludicrous stunt.
I decided that I don't like the idea of the gold watch worn by Connery to remain anonyms, hence I've invested in some online archival research. Surprisingly, there are a lot of high-quality photos of Connery from behind the scenes of the early Bond era, however most of the time he is wearing the 6538 Sub, no watch or frustratingly enough, his left wrist is juuuuust shy of being out of frame.
Although I have one picture of what I strongly believe to be the mystery watch. It is really hard to tell what it is, but it provides some guidelines.
Based on the theory of it being Seans personal watch I dugged a bit deeper and found some photos taken in 1968 where we can see him wearing a watch with a somewhat similar appearance.
But when comparing it to the BTS and screen grabs from Dr.No I have my doubt as it looks like the lugs are different along with the hands (again, really hard to tell).
I'm still digging, but we can barley make out some basic shapes of the hands at least.
It was the first image in your post that made me think it was Smiths. The end of the lug looks slightly bulbous which was a feature of some Deluxe models. My Grandfather had one given to him for 20 years service in 1964.
Hopefully, before I turn my toes up, some behind the scenes still that’s been hidden away in some crew members drawer somewhere, will finally see the light of day. And it will have a magnificent close up of the watch.
Another contender could be the Smiths Deluxe, which funny enough bare a striking reassembles to the Gruen 510
I might have found a good picture of the watch that is seen on Sean's wrist in the famous "tailor" photo, based on it having the same type of strap (some sort of loop strap, perlon perhaps?)
Now the colourized photo is allegedly taken in 1962. Filming of Dr.No took place from Jan 16 to March 15 the same year, so it would be in the same time frame. However this is where I take issue and a bit hesitant to claim it to be the same watch.
Now, if I understand correctly, the tailor photo is taken before filming of Dr.No, and the picture linked above is likely taken during of post filming. But in the film it "looks" like it's on a more traditional leather strap?
That would mean the watch is on strap one (let's call it a perlon for now out if simplicity, even though it's not confirmed) before filming, then during the production of Dr.No it's on a leather strap, and after production it's back on the "perlon" strap? Assuming the photo is taken after filming, if it's during production then that would be even more concerning.
My point is that it feels unlikely for the watch to switch between straps in-between photos, this is my main issue with the theory of it being the same watch.
However, it does seem to fit the same profile as the watch from the BTS stills from Dr.No. So, if we could find some pictures that shows the very distinguished strap from the tailor photo connected to Sean's wrist during filming of Dr.No (or subsequent films such as FRWL etc) then I think we can make a good claim to the two watches being one and the same. Thus also mean that we have a good photo of the face of the mystery watch.
Question is, should we continue the discussion in here, or make a dedicated thread of it's own?