In the novels, Bond wears a Rolex in LALD (when he swims to the Secatur) which pre-dates the novel Goldfinger and also Fleming's ownership of the Rolex 1016 Explorer.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
In the novels, Bond wears a Rolex in LALD (when he swims to the Secatur) which pre-dates the novel Goldfinger and also Fleming's ownership of the Rolex 1016 Explorer.
DG
So that's how we know, I'd already forgotten that. Well then, LALD was published 1954, were Rolex Subs fitted with manual wind or automatic calibers back then?
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
In the novels, Bond wears a Rolex in LALD (when he swims to the Secatur) which pre-dates the novel Goldfinger and also Fleming's ownership of the Rolex 1016 Explorer.
DG
So that's how we know, I'd already forgotten that. Well then, LALD was published 1954, were Rolex Subs fitted with manual wind or automatic calibers back then?
The Submariner in its various forms went into production in 1953 and was first exhibited in 1954. They had automatic movements namely the A260 and the A296 if memory serves. However, we don't know for certain which Rolex model Fleming had in mind for Bond. All is merely conjecture including the "Discoverd" article. Moreover, unless we can raise Fleming from the dead it will remain that way.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
The Submariner in its various forms went into production in 1953 and was first exhibited in 1954. They had automatic movements namely the A260 and the A296 if memory serves. However, we don't know for certain which Rolex model Fleming had in mind for Bond. All is merely conjecture including the "Discoverd" article. Moreover, unless we can raise Fleming from the dead it will remain that way.
DG
So, if we are fairly certain, that IF did mean that Bond wears a Subbie Rolex, that means he also meant to imply that said watch is a finicky piece of kit and can and will break under not so difficult circumstances. Remember, he writes that when Bond wakes up at the campsite his watch has stopped. This has no meaning to the plot, it is just mentioned. If we believe that Fleming did not mean to bash Rolex, then Bonds watch is obviously of a manual winding caliber.
What models were there that can tick all the right boxes? (caliber, water tight, phosphorous numerals, stretchy band etc)
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
What models were there that can tick all the right boxes? (caliber, water tght, phosphorous numerals, stretchy band etc)
Loads had those specs, from the Speedking to the Datejust etc. Literally loads.
I do have a copy of some correspondence from a fan who wrote to Fleming about Bond's choice of watch, and Fleming replied to him dismissing the notion that a Rolex would weigh down Bond's combat arm due to the weight. The reply from Fleming was quite flippant and gave the impression that he hadn't given much thought into what Bond should wear, except that it should have an expanding bracelet and be quite light.
Loads had those specs, from the Speedking to the Datejust etc. Literally loads.
I do have a copy of some correspondence from a fan who wrote to Fleming about Bond's choice of watch, and Fleming replied to him dismissing the notion that a Rolex would weigh down Bond's combat arm due to the weight. The reply from Fleming was quite flippant and gave the impression that he hadn't given much thought into what Bond should wear, except that it should have an expanding bracelet and be quite light.
Light would also sooner be manually wound instead of an automatic, right?
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
The Submariner in its various forms went into production in 1953 and was first exhibited in 1954. They had automatic movements namely the A260 and the A296 if memory serves. However, we don't know for certain which Rolex model Fleming had in mind for Bond. All is merely conjecture including the "Discoverd" article. Moreover, unless we can raise Fleming from the dead it will remain that way.
DG
So, if we are fairly certain, that IF did mean that Bond wears a Subbie Rolex, that means he also meant to imply that said watch is a finicky piece of kit and can and will break under not so difficult circumstances. Remember, he writes that when Bond wakes up at the campsite his watch has stopped. This has no meaning to the plot, it is just mentioned. If we believe that Fleming did not mean to bash Rolex, then Bonds watch is obviously of a manual winding caliber.
What models were there that can tick all the right boxes? (caliber, water tight, phosphorous numerals, stretchy band etc)
That's a big "if". I am not fairly certain that Fleming meant the Submariner. It could be any Rolex that fit his description. I see it that way in my mind's eye, but they're novels and you can see it any way you like because Fleming never specified which Rolex. Also, the Rolex appears in Fleming's second book, LALD, and only re-appears again in his eleventh book, OHMSS. I suppose you can infer that Bond wore a Rolex from LALD on, but it is not written that way. I have owned and handled quite a few Rolex watches over the years and have never found them to be finicky. On the contrary, they are very tough and can take a fair amount of abuse. They were designed that way. That being said, like a car any watch can break, even a Rolex. After all, it's a piece of machinery.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
That's a big "if". I am not fairly certain that Fleming meant the Submariner. It could be any Rolex that fit his description. I see it that way in my mind's eye, but they're novels and you can see it any way you like because Fleming never specified which Rolex. Also, the Rolex appears in Fleming's second book, LALD, and only re-appears again in his eleventh book, OHMSS. I suppose you can infer that Bond wore a Rolex from LALD on, but it is not written that way. I have owned and handled quite a few Rolex watches over the years and have never found them to be finicky. On the contrary, they are very tough and can take a fair amount of abuse. They were designed that way. That being said, like a car any watch can break, even a Rolex. After all, it's a piece of machinery.
DG
Wouldn't it then be more reasonable to just assume that what Ian meant, was exactly what the wrote: Bonds watch just stopped, not broke. Also if what ASP9mm wrote about the weight is accurate, it is quite safe to say that the Rolex Fleming had in mind was of a manual winding caliber, and that would rule out Subbie.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
That's a big "if". I am not fairly certain that Fleming meant the Submariner. It could be any Rolex that fit his description. I see it that way in my mind's eye, but they're novels and you can see it any way you like because Fleming never specified which Rolex. Also, the Rolex appears in Fleming's second book, LALD, and only re-appears again in his eleventh book, OHMSS. I suppose you can infer that Bond wore a Rolex from LALD on, but it is not written that way. I have owned and handled quite a few Rolex watches over the years and have never found them to be finicky. On the contrary, they are very tough and can take a fair amount of abuse. They were designed that way. That being said, like a car any watch can break, even a Rolex. After all, it's a piece of machinery.
DG
Wouldn't it then be more reasonable to just assume that what Ian meant, was exactly what the wrote: Bonds watch just stopped, not broke. Also if what ASP9mm wrote about the weight is accurate, it is quite safe to say that the Rolex Fleming had in mind was of a manual winding caliber, and that would rule out Subbie.
Why would a watch just stop if it's not broken? Something would have to be wrong with the movement. I don't see why a light watch would preclude an automatic. Lastly, I never said Fleming meant a Submariner. Fleming specified a Rolex Oyster Perpetual with big phosphorous numerals on an epanding metal band. I see it as the Submariner in the theater of my mind, and so did Broccoli and Saltzmen, but you can see it any way you like.
DG
Edit: I own several manual watches and the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day. That way it does not wind down and keep inaccurate time.
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I have been a NASA fanboy all my life and this has been on my wrist for 25 years, hence the dings.
And a very appropriate day to wear and show it too! The 45th anniversary of 4/14/70, the day that the Speedmaster was used by the astronauts to time the engine burn on the returning and stricken Apollo 13. It had to be 14 seconds exactly to get them back on course for a successful re-entry....a truly wonderful watch with an unrivaled place in history...wear it in good health.
Why would a watch just stop if it's not broken? Something would have to be wrong with the movement. I don't see why a light watch would preclude an automatic. Lastly, I never said Fleming meant a Submariner. Fleming specified a Rolex Oyster Perpetual with big phosphorous numerals on an epanding metal band. I see it as the Submariner in the theater of my mind, and so did Broccoli and Saltzmen, but you can see it any way you like.
DG
Edit: I own several manual watches and the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day. That way it does not wind down and keep inaccurate time.
As you yourself stated "...the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day." I'd say that if Bonds watch isn't broken then he just forgot to wind it because of the excitement of the adventure. I am aware of the way mechanical watches work as I have in my collection several 50's and 60's era automatic and manual wind watches from such manufacturers as Atlantic, Omega Eterna and Zenith. In all these manufacturers collections, if you combine watertight case with automatic movement, you have a thicker and heavier watch than if the specs were otherwise same but movement were of a manual winding type. This is necessitated by the room the winding rotor and its mechanism requires inside the casing.
As I do not collect "Rollies" and have no interest in them, my knowledge about 50's era Rolex watches is next to nothing, and that is why I have asked all these questions about the possible calibre that Bonds watch might have. Known facts are: luminous dial, watertight, expanding band, Rolex, Oyster case, Perpetual movement ....... WAIT A MOMENT!!! Isn't Perpetual movement, by a definition an automatic movement, ASP9mm help us out here!
Also, I went back to check the OHMSS chapter 15 and it says "heavy Rolex Oyster Perpetual".... So not a light watch, why would IF state something along the lines, if he writes something to the contrary. That wily old devil! ) ) )
Ahh crap, back to the square 1.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Why would a watch just stop if it's not broken? Something would have to be wrong with the movement. I don't see why a light watch would preclude an automatic. Lastly, I never said Fleming meant a Submariner. Fleming specified a Rolex Oyster Perpetual with big phosphorous numerals on an epanding metal band. I see it as the Submariner in the theater of my mind, and so did Broccoli and Saltzmen, but you can see it any way you like.
DG
Edit: I own several manual watches and the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day. That way it does not wind down and keep inaccurate time.
As you yourself stated "...the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day." I'd say that if Bonds watch isn't broken then he just forgot to wind it because of the excitement of the adventure. I am aware of the way mechanical watches work as I have in my collection several 50's and 60's era automatic and manual wind watches from such manufacturers as Atlantic, Omega Eterna and Zenith. In all these manufacturers collections, if you combine watertight case with automatic movement, you have a thicker and heavier watch than if the specs were otherwise same but movement were of a manual winding type. This is necessitated by the room the winding rotor and its mechanism requires inside the casing.
As I do not collect "Rollies" and have no interest in them, my knowledge about 50's era Rolex watches is next to nothing, and that is why I have asked all these questions about the possible calibre that Bonds watch might have. Known facts are: luminous dial, watertight, expanding band, Rolex, Oyster case, Perpetual movement ....... WAIT A MOMENT!!! Isn't Perpetual movement, by a definition an automatic movement, ASP9mm help us out here!
Also, I went back to check the OHMSS chapter 15 and it says "heavy Rolex Oyster Perpetual".... So not a light watch, why would IF state something along the lines, if he writes something to the contrary. That wily old devil! ) ) )
Ahh crap, back to the square 1.
Bond forget to wind his watch? Never!! Yes, "Oyster Perpetual" is the Rolex trade name for waterproof automatic.
Trying to tie Fleming down about certain details can be a frustating and futile experience. I'll admit it can also be fun, but writing is an art form. So a certain turn phrase that sounds good but is inaccurate may work better for a story. A perfect example of this is when Fleming, while working for Reuters and reporting on six British engineers being tried for espionage in Moscow wrote: "When the big hands of Moscow's 300 electric clocks reach the hour of six". When another reporter asked Fleming how do you know there are 300 electric clocks in Moscow, Fleming answered, and I'm paraphrasing here, "how do you know there aren't?"
The use of "300 electric clocks" by Fleming was merely a device to draw you into the story. There was no accuracy to it. In the same way, I think triying to determine the exact Rolex, or any other watch that Bond may have worn in the novels is an exercise in futility. What we do know is that for Bond's first incarnation in the cinema, the producers chose a Rolex Submariner.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Bond forget to wind his watch? Never!! ) Yes, "Oyster Perpetual" is the Rolex trade name for waterproof automatic.
Trying to tie Fleming down about certain details can be a frustating and futile experience. I'll admit it can also be fun, but writing is an art form. So a certain turn phrase that sounds good but is inaccurate may work better for a story. A perfect example of this is when Fleming, while working for Reuters and reporting on six British engineers being tried for espionage in Moscow wrote: "When the big hands of Moscow's 300 electric clocks reach the hour of six". When another reporter asked Fleming how do you know there are 300 electric clocks in Moscow, Fleming answered, and I'm paraphrasing here, "how do you know there aren't?"
The use of "300 electric clocks" by Fleming was merely a device to draw you into the story. There was no accuracy to it. In the same way, I think triying to determine the exact Rolex, or any other watch that Bond may have worn in the novels is an exercise in futility. What we do know is that for Bond's first incarnation in the cinema, the producers chose a Rolex Submariner.
DG
HAH! Nice story! {[]
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
Let's not forget that Bond's watch stopped in Dr No after being dunked in the mangroves. That doesn't point to any Oyster Perpetual at all, and certainly not a Sub or Explorer, but a non water resistant watch. It's a headache trying to second guess Fleming, best to just go with the flow.
Let's not forget that Bond's watch stopped in Dr No after being dunked in the mangroves. That doesn't point to any Oyster Perpetual at all, and certainly not a Sub or Explorer, but a non water resistant watch. It's a headache trying to second guess Fleming, best to just go with the flow.
Yup! That is exactly the reason why I started to ask questions in the first place! That pesky stoppage! |)
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Let's not forget that Bond's watch stopped in Dr No after being dunked in the mangroves. That doesn't point to any Oyster Perpetual at all, and certainly not a Sub or Explorer, but a non water resistant watch. It's a headache trying to second guess Fleming, best to just go with the flow.
Yup! That is exactly the reason why I started to ask questions in the first place! That pesky stoppage! |)
While I reiterate that you can't nail Fleming down on this type of stuff, Rolex watches do fail from time to time due to gasket failure and other issues. I've personally had a vintage Rolex become flooded due to gasket failure. Gaskets in the crown tube area and the case back have to be replaced from time to time during service. If not, your Rolex can become flooded and will be costly to repair.
DG
So, what sharp little eyes you've got...wait till you get to my teeth.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Comments
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
So that's how we know, I'd already forgotten that. Well then, LALD was published 1954, were Rolex Subs fitted with manual wind or automatic calibers back then?
-Mr Arlington Beech
The Submariner in its various forms went into production in 1953 and was first exhibited in 1954. They had automatic movements namely the A260 and the A296 if memory serves. However, we don't know for certain which Rolex model Fleming had in mind for Bond. All is merely conjecture including the "Discoverd" article. Moreover, unless we can raise Fleming from the dead it will remain that way.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
So, if we are fairly certain, that IF did mean that Bond wears a Subbie Rolex, that means he also meant to imply that said watch is a finicky piece of kit and can and will break under not so difficult circumstances. Remember, he writes that when Bond wakes up at the campsite his watch has stopped. This has no meaning to the plot, it is just mentioned. If we believe that Fleming did not mean to bash Rolex, then Bonds watch is obviously of a manual winding caliber.
What models were there that can tick all the right boxes? (caliber, water tight, phosphorous numerals, stretchy band etc)
-Mr Arlington Beech
Loads had those specs, from the Speedking to the Datejust etc. Literally loads.
I do have a copy of some correspondence from a fan who wrote to Fleming about Bond's choice of watch, and Fleming replied to him dismissing the notion that a Rolex would weigh down Bond's combat arm due to the weight. The reply from Fleming was quite flippant and gave the impression that he hadn't given much thought into what Bond should wear, except that it should have an expanding bracelet and be quite light.
Light would also sooner be manually wound instead of an automatic, right?
-Mr Arlington Beech
That's a big "if". I am not fairly certain that Fleming meant the Submariner. It could be any Rolex that fit his description. I see it that way in my mind's eye, but they're novels and you can see it any way you like because Fleming never specified which Rolex. Also, the Rolex appears in Fleming's second book, LALD, and only re-appears again in his eleventh book, OHMSS. I suppose you can infer that Bond wore a Rolex from LALD on, but it is not written that way. I have owned and handled quite a few Rolex watches over the years and have never found them to be finicky. On the contrary, they are very tough and can take a fair amount of abuse. They were designed that way. That being said, like a car any watch can break, even a Rolex. After all, it's a piece of machinery.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I have been a NASA fanboy all my life and this has been on my wrist for 25 years, hence the dings.
Wouldn't it then be more reasonable to just assume that what Ian meant, was exactly what the wrote: Bonds watch just stopped, not broke. Also if what ASP9mm wrote about the weight is accurate, it is quite safe to say that the Rolex Fleming had in mind was of a manual winding caliber, and that would rule out Subbie.
-Mr Arlington Beech
Why would a watch just stop if it's not broken? Something would have to be wrong with the movement. I don't see why a light watch would preclude an automatic. Lastly, I never said Fleming meant a Submariner. Fleming specified a Rolex Oyster Perpetual with big phosphorous numerals on an epanding metal band. I see it as the Submariner in the theater of my mind, and so did Broccoli and Saltzmen, but you can see it any way you like.
DG
Edit: I own several manual watches and the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day. That way it does not wind down and keep inaccurate time.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
As you yourself stated "...the trick to keeping accurate time with them is to wind it once a day at the same time every day." I'd say that if Bonds watch isn't broken then he just forgot to wind it because of the excitement of the adventure. I am aware of the way mechanical watches work as I have in my collection several 50's and 60's era automatic and manual wind watches from such manufacturers as Atlantic, Omega Eterna and Zenith. In all these manufacturers collections, if you combine watertight case with automatic movement, you have a thicker and heavier watch than if the specs were otherwise same but movement were of a manual winding type. This is necessitated by the room the winding rotor and its mechanism requires inside the casing.
As I do not collect "Rollies" and have no interest in them, my knowledge about 50's era Rolex watches is next to nothing, and that is why I have asked all these questions about the possible calibre that Bonds watch might have. Known facts are: luminous dial, watertight, expanding band, Rolex, Oyster case, Perpetual movement ....... WAIT A MOMENT!!! Isn't Perpetual movement, by a definition an automatic movement, ASP9mm help us out here!
Also, I went back to check the OHMSS chapter 15 and it says "heavy Rolex Oyster Perpetual".... So not a light watch, why would IF state something along the lines, if he writes something to the contrary. That wily old devil!
Ahh crap, back to the square 1.
-Mr Arlington Beech
Beautifull
-Mr Arlington Beech
I am not a fan or Rolex but every time you post a pic it makes them look good and me want one. -{
Bond forget to wind his watch? Never!! Yes, "Oyster Perpetual" is the Rolex trade name for waterproof automatic.
Trying to tie Fleming down about certain details can be a frustating and futile experience. I'll admit it can also be fun, but writing is an art form. So a certain turn phrase that sounds good but is inaccurate may work better for a story. A perfect example of this is when Fleming, while working for Reuters and reporting on six British engineers being tried for espionage in Moscow wrote: "When the big hands of Moscow's 300 electric clocks reach the hour of six". When another reporter asked Fleming how do you know there are 300 electric clocks in Moscow, Fleming answered, and I'm paraphrasing here, "how do you know there aren't?"
The use of "300 electric clocks" by Fleming was merely a device to draw you into the story. There was no accuracy to it. In the same way, I think triying to determine the exact Rolex, or any other watch that Bond may have worn in the novels is an exercise in futility. What we do know is that for Bond's first incarnation in the cinema, the producers chose a Rolex Submariner.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
Thanks! {[]
I've found that try as I might, I always seem to come back to my Rolex watches, or find other versions/variations that I want!
HAH! Nice story! {[]
-Mr Arlington Beech
Yup! That is exactly the reason why I started to ask questions in the first place! That pesky stoppage!
-Mr Arlington Beech
While I reiterate that you can't nail Fleming down on this type of stuff, Rolex watches do fail from time to time due to gasket failure and other issues. I've personally had a vintage Rolex become flooded due to gasket failure. Gaskets in the crown tube area and the case back have to be replaced from time to time during service. If not, your Rolex can become flooded and will be costly to repair.
DG
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Richard Grenier after George Orwell, Washington Times 1993.
I have a couple more payments to make on my SM300 and then I am really considering that Air King.
Please forgive the artistic inaccuracies!!