Was the PTS of Diamonds are Forever 'Bonds Revenge' ?

AlphaOmegaSin

Think about it, the PTS to DAF never really had a clear Objective for Bond being there, so this makes me think that the whole Sequence is Bonds Revenge Mission on Blofeld after the Death of Tracy. His Aggressiveness towards those he is Interrogating for Information for Example.

Barbel

That is certainly implied, though never clearly stated.

Thunderpussy

I agree Bond is Hunting for Blofeld and ( Thinks ) He's killed him.

hehadlotsofguts

Good topic AlphaOmegaSin. Just fired up the dvd now and i also think that this is Bond on his revenge mission. It's not only misleading to Bond that he THINKS he's killed Blofeld,but it's also misleading to the audience as well. It's a great twist in the film that Bond has killed a double and not Blofeld himself.

ZorinIndustries

Yes I've always figured this to be the case! Just a bit of continuity in the series and changing of actors (again!) -{

AlphaOmegaSin

Only Cements my Theory with M saying that Blofeld is finished.

Jimmy Bond

I seriously doubt it. DAF was implicitly written to exclude any possible references to OHMSS and as such, there's no character change in Bond himself, and Connery more-or-less portrays him as a lighter version of his YOLT self. The pre-title credits sequence itself lack menace and grit, and it feels more like a sequel/epilogue to YOLT, of all films than OHMSS, which suffered critically and commercially at the time.

Now, I'd personally have loved a Connery-starring revenge sequel (and even more than that, a Connery-starring OHMSS), but the DAF opening is not that. Sadly so.

superado

I don’t agree that plot elements from OHMSS were implicitly kept out of DAF, though EON did want to disassociate the new movie from OHMSS. Based on the positive audience reception with the rescreening of TB and YOLT, EON concluded that people wanted “classic Bond” and surmised that accordingly, DAF needed to have a lighter tone. Though not perfect up to that point, there was still that ever-present thread of continuity that must be accounted for, with the biggest, most recent plot event showing us Bond getting married

At the beginning of DAF (which people will logically perceive to pick up from where the last movie ended), why was Bond looking for Blofeld? Were the events of OHMSS “erased” with its start essentially rebooted in DAF, with Bond undertaking a mission that was or similar to Operation Bedlam? If we are to look at those things implied as you suggested, Bond undertook an unsanctioned search and kill mission at his own expense. This of course is implied by Bond’s response to Sir Donald Munger, who asked, “You have been on holiday, I understand. Relaxing, I hope?” with Bond replying, “Oh, hardly relaxing, but most satisfying.” Could there be a mission more satisfying than a revenge mission? So, yes, based on what we know on screen and behind the scenes, it is more likely that Bond was on a private, unofficial mission to kill Blofeld for revenge.

Gassy Man

I don't know how anyone couldn't see that this was Bond out for revenge against Blofeld. He goes through three different people to find Blofeld, who is busy changing his appearance and making duplicates. I never understood why Quantum of Solace was touted as the first direct sequel in the Bond series -- not only was there continuity in this regard between films like Dr. No and From Russia with Love, but this sequence made a direct connection to the previous film with Bond's seeming personal mission to get Blofeld.

L Jones

Gassy Man wrote:

I don't know how anyone couldn't see that this was Bond out for revenge against Blofeld. He goes through three different people to find Blofeld, who is busy changing his appearance and making duplicates. I never understood why Quantum of Solace was touted as the first direct sequel in the Bond series -- not only was there continuity in this regard between films like Dr. No and From Russia with Love, but this sequence made a direct connection to the previous film with Bond's seeming personal mission to get Blofeld.

I may like "DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER" for its humor (it is rather funny at times), I'm still a little disgusted that its PTS is supposed to be viewed as a sequel to "OHMSS". This was Broccoli and Saltzman's idea of a sequel? They never even bothered to mention Tracy's name.

Thank God for "QUANTUM OF SOLACE", who handled Bond's reaction to Vesper's death a lot better.

Gassy Man

Well, the fact that he went directly against Blofeld again is really what makes it more of a sequel, so I don't know that only the first 10 minutes or so count.

I didn't think Quantum of Solace was all that much more of a sequel to Casino Royale . . . there are a few introspective moments, of course, but a lot of Bond's dealing with the death of Vesper is given lip service in comparison to his going after Greene and Quantum. We see more of Craig Mitchell's personal life than we ever do of Vesper's, for instance, and there are no flashback sequences or any sense of presence by Vesper except for the occasional dialogue. This was another reason I was disappointed with the film.

Miken Ayers

It doesn't directly reference OHMSS or contradict it either. I think that PTS was made to keep everybody happy at the time DAF was made. However FYEO and LTK do make it clear the events of OHMSS did happen. This also shoots that code name theory people love in the nuts too.

Colonel Shatner

Here's my pet theory why Connery Bond was stalking Blofeld in DAF's PTS.

Not all of Bond's grief leads to Tracy (Vesper and Aki, perhaps also Ali Kerim Bey and Quarrel) and he already had plenty of reasons why to terminate Blofeld aside from Tracy (and he was still an active head of the most dangerous, corrupt, and wealthy subversive criminal movement in the world).

Thunderpussy

A very intetesting slant on the pts, Col Shatner.

lueth2048

I have always felt that the beginning of Diamonds Are Forever was a continuation of You Only Twice.

DieAnotherDay

lueth2048 wrote:

I have always felt that the beginning of Diamonds Are Forever was a continuation of You Only Twice.

So do I. I don't feel it was DAF that made a mess of the continuity in all honesty, I feel it was OHMSS. For a start Blefeld doesn't recognise Bond when they first meet - It can be loosely argued that this is because we have a new face as Bond but I don't buy this - secondly as great as OHMSS is it feels very udsurd: There is no cool gadgets like before, we have the story him getting married that they knew would need to have a sequel. When the reception of OHMSS was lacklustre at the time I felt the producers/director felt the way to go was back to the roots of Bond with a stand alone action flick dealing off with Blofeld after the events of OHMSS and wiping the bad taste of OHMSS out of people's mouths by not mentioning any of the events in it and killing off "Blofeld" in the PTS. They probably wanted rid of the previous storyline ASAP so they could just get on with making a classic Bond again.

AlphaOmegaSin

DieAnotherDay wrote:

lueth2048 wrote:

I have always felt that the beginning of Diamonds Are Forever was a continuation of You Only Twice.

So do I. I don't feel it was DAF that made a mess of the continuity in all honesty, I feel it was OHMSS. For a start Blefeld doesn't recognise Bond when they first meet - It can be loosely argued that this is because we have a new face as Bond but I don't buy this - secondly as great as OHMSS is it feels very udsurd: There is no cool gadgets like before, we have the story him getting married that they knew would need to have a sequel. When the reception of OHMSS was lacklustre at the time I felt the producers/director felt the way to go was back to the roots of Bond with a stand alone action flick dealing off with Blofeld after the events of OHMSS and wiping the bad taste of OHMSS out of people's mouths by not mentioning any of the events in it and killing off "Blofeld" in the PTS. They probably wanted rid of the previous storyline ASAP so they could just get on with making a classic Bond again.

That's what you get for Filming the Books out of Order I suppose

DieAnotherDay

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

DieAnotherDay wrote:

lueth2048 wrote:

I have always felt that the beginning of Diamonds Are Forever was a continuation of You Only Twice.

So do I. I don't feel it was DAF that made a mess of the continuity in all honesty, I feel it was OHMSS. For a start Blefeld doesn't recognise Bond when they first meet - It can be loosely argued that this is because we have a new face as Bond but I don't buy this - secondly as great as OHMSS is it feels very udsurd: There is no cool gadgets like before, we have the story him getting married that they knew would need to have a sequel. When the reception of OHMSS was lacklustre at the time I felt the producers/director felt the way to go was back to the roots of Bond with a stand alone action flick dealing off with Blofeld after the events of OHMSS and wiping the bad taste of OHMSS out of people's mouths by not mentioning any of the events in it and killing off "Blofeld" in the PTS. They probably wanted rid of the previous storyline ASAP so they could just get on with making a classic Bond again.

That's what you get for Filming the Books out of Order I suppose

-{ Very True

Miken Ayers

Blofeld did recognize Bond in OHMSS. His later line about it taking more than some props to disguise James Bond made that apparent. I think Bond was supposed to have had on the glasses when meeting Blofeld, and that's why those were used as an example to call him out. It appears to me that was an oversight on the set.

Firemass

Upon watching DAF last night I noticed Lazenby's Aston Martin DBS clearly visible in Q's workshop. This small detail would definitely link DAF to OHMSS.

(Unless I misidentified the car)

Virgil37

Gunbarrel. Fight. We don't see Connery, only his hands and hear his voice (transition from Lazenby). He's more aggresive than ever, bulldozing his way to Bloefeld in a mere couple of minutes, and the line is repeated several times "Where is Bloefeld?" "Where is Ernst Stavros Bloefeld???", so that audiences have no doubt in their minds who Bond is searching for. Everybody knows Bloefeld killed Bond's wife, no point in saying it. Finds him, and apparently kills him.

DAF PTS is definitely "Bond's revenge". And a good way of saying "Bond is back" after OHMSS. That PTS probably helped the franchise more than we realise now.

Thunderpussy

I always got the feeling that they wanted to get the pts over as quickly
as possible. So they could be done with OHMSS. Then move on with
The tried and trusted formula, of jokes and action, with little in the
Way of emotion or depth to any of the characters.

Virgil37

Thunderpussy wrote:

I always got the feeling that they wanted to get the pts over as quickly
as possible. So they could be done with OHMSS. Then move on with
The tried and trusted formula, of jokes and action, with little in the
Way of emotion or depth to any of the characters.

Yep, there was definitely an emotional void left there that had to be filled up ASAP.

AlphaOmegaSin

I agree with you TP

Dutchfinger

It's a shame that it is never actually confirmed that the PTS was Bond's revenge for the death of his wife. I always felt Diamonds are Forever had a great potential in general to be a great revenge story. It could be that Bond was send out for the diamond smuggling thing, much like the original story. But made it seem like he didnt want to do such a job, he would rather chase blofeld. Then blofeld turns out to be the villian, much like in the movie. But they should have made a big revenge scene, and not throw in as much camp! (he should have actually killed irma bunt as well if you want to be picky) They could have atleast mentioned Tracy....

Some people say it could be seen as a direct sequel to YOLT, since it also starts out in Japan, as if OHMSS never happened. I do think its great they give a nodd to her in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK.

Virgil37

Dutchfinger wrote:

Some people say it could be seen as a direct sequel to YOLT, since it also starts out in Japan, as if OHMSS never happened. I do think its great they give a nodd to her in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK.

True, I never noticed the YOLT link! starts in Japan!