A word I'd use for A VIEW TO A KILL is lacklustre. It feels as though everyone's going through the motions. Take the two fights - the one between Bond, Tibbett & Zorin's two thugs & the latter one in Stacey's mansion. They must stand as two of the worst choreographed & edited in the series. There's no sense of joy in delivering the goods on the film-makers parts & for this viewer at least they're indicative of the film as a whole. And the less said about the fire truck chase the better.
You have neatly summarized some of the reasons this is at the bottom of my list of all Bond films.
yeah, but if they'd replaced Moore with Dalton, Glen would still have been in the lead :v
I don't understand how someone could possibly assume that with Dalton there would be no "California girls" or how Walken could have played better. IMO the Moore-Walkenn controversy is well done (Moore was always good with his nemesisses) and Dalton with Mayday would have looked even sillier
Also the fire truck chase would have been the same - ever seen that cellocase chase in TLD? That was for the laughs as well and not for thrill.
Next I am hearing is that Dalton would have turned water into wine 8-)
And now to you Blackleiter
You are almost there, Toys, except that Dalton would actually have turned water into a vodka martini, shaken not stirred! And his quiche would have turned out better, too! )
One can only speculate, so I'll do just that!
A main problem with AVTAK was the age of Roger Moore (plus Patrick McNee and Lois Maxwell who would probably have been recast if Dalton was Bond)
It's likely the tone of Dalton's AVTAK would have been a lot like TLD, especially since that was also directed by John Glen and written by Maibaum and Wilson. The worst faults of the movie was the overuse of stuntmen (that would certainly had been bettered by Dalton) and the silliness (my guess this would have gotten somewhat better with Dalton). I asume the title song would still be from Duran Duran. Nice, since the song was one of the strengths of the movie. Tanya Roberts would most likely had been kept, one can only hope with fever "Oh, James!"
Bottom line: My guess is that Dalton's version would have been better and fresher, but nowhere near a classsic.
PPK 7.65mmSaratoga Springs NY USAPosts: 1,256MI6 Agent
edited March 2014
@ ASP Yes, I have always felt that A View To a Kill needed better writing and in some cases(Cough Stacy Stutton Cough) different actors for some of the parts.
@Firemass Sorry if misunderstood the question. I would say that as long as the writers changed a few things around like the sight gags, and omitted the fire truck chase, and with Dalton as the lead I am sure that I would have enjoyed the film more.
Where would the film rank for you if Dalton had played bond in it?
I'm sure Dalton would be highly praised for doing the exact same things that Roger is criticized for: Wearing a leather jacket, cooking quiche, opting not to sleep with Stacy, hopping in bed with Mayday, and driving a crappy Ford LTD.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
I think a substitution of actor would have made very little difference: the problem is in the glib, shallow, uninvolving script. For sure, Moore looks far too old to play Bond, but with a better script he could probably have done a decent job. In particular, I liked him playing opposite Patrick Macnee, and a whole film about two ageing agents having a bit of fun together could have been quite touching.
That Scene was ruined when it was repeated later on when Mayday strangled Bonds Contact (forgot his Name) in the same Manner, with the same Camera Angle with the same Music 8-)
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
It would have been a better film because as in TLD, they would have made a better script because they were dealing with a new Bond (and one that wanted to keep it serious).
Would they have replaced the prinicpals (Q, M, Moneypenny) with new actors?
Hard to say. Were they under contract for that film? If so, it would have cost a lot to break those contracts. I suspect it was another reason they kept Moore despite his obvious age.
Retreading the GF plot was obviously due to EON having dug themselves into a rut for having Moore so long. The series had lost it's edge and despite the attempt at several clever set pieces as the Eiffel Tower, it was all starting to pall, and one of the worst sins in a Bond film is to have a fight scene that lacks any tension or danger.
As with TLD, AVTAK with Dalton probably would have still had some scenes and bad limp puns left over from Moore, but it would have been a better film with a better plot.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
Hold on, wasn't TLD originally written for Moore, so the script being better is a moot point.
I think we have begun to miss the point of the original question. Would AVTAK have been better with Dalton as Bond, NOT would AVTAK have been better had it had a different script and entirely different cast. We all know the answer to that.
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Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,939Chief of Staff
Hold on, wasn't TLD originally written for Moore, so the script being better is a moot point.
As far as I can remember, no it wasn't....I'm sure it was written in a similar style as the Moore Bond films...but NOT for Moore - they all knew it was time to move on...the script was 'amended' for Dalton...
YNWA 97
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
Hold on, wasn't TLD originally written for Moore, so the script being better is a moot point.
As far as I can remember, no it wasn't....I'm sure it was written in a similar style as the Moore Bond films...but NOT for Moore - they all knew it was time to move on...the script was 'amended' for Dalton...
Yes, I remember now. It was amended. Cheers old bean.
No, the AVTAK film would not have been better with Dalton if nothing it in was changed. A weak script is a weak script. An actor can only do so much - I've seen some of the finest actors in film who traded their integrity for cash (or just to work in a plum location). The films still sank anyway.
No, the AVTAK film would not have been better with Dalton if nothing it in was changed. A weak script is a weak script. An actor can only do so much - I've seen some of the finest actors in film who traded their integrity for cash (or just to work in a plum location). The films still sank anyway.
AVTAK still might not have been a good Bond film because of the weak script, as you metioned, but I think it would have been "better". For example, the action scenes certainly would been improved by having an actor who looked like he could actually run or throw a punch or a kick without so many glimpses of obvious stunt doubles.
You may see a bit less of the stuntmen in direct fights.
However a large part of the stunt work has been done by Julienne and his team and the French are always crap in hiding their stunt people.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, the AVTAK film would not have been better with Dalton if nothing it in was changed. A weak script is a weak script. An actor can only do so much - I've seen some of the finest actors in film who traded their integrity for cash (or just to work in a plum location). The films still sank anyway.
AVTAK still might not have been a good Bond film because of the weak script, as you metioned, but I think it would have been "better". For example, the action scenes certainly would been improved by having an actor who looked like he could actually run or throw a punch or a kick without so many glimpses of obvious stunt doubles.
Granted, maybe the action scenes would have been staged better, but those would not have improved the film enough for me. DAF had a terrific fight scene in the elevator, but I though it was the only highlight of the film.
They should of stuck with the original Version of the Script they had. It included the Main Villain being a Motorcycle Assassin, just like in the short Story 'From a View to a Kill' included in For Your Eyes Only. I have even heard that another early Version of the Script included Zorin trying to deflect the Course of Halley's Comet and crash it into Earth!
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Comments
You have neatly summarized some of the reasons this is at the bottom of my list of all Bond films.
You are almost there, Toys, except that Dalton would actually have turned water into a vodka martini, shaken not stirred! And his quiche would have turned out better, too!
A main problem with AVTAK was the age of Roger Moore (plus Patrick McNee and Lois Maxwell who would probably have been recast if Dalton was Bond)
It's likely the tone of Dalton's AVTAK would have been a lot like TLD, especially since that was also directed by John Glen and written by Maibaum and Wilson. The worst faults of the movie was the overuse of stuntmen (that would certainly had been bettered by Dalton) and the silliness (my guess this would have gotten somewhat better with Dalton). I asume the title song would still be from Duran Duran. Nice, since the song was one of the strengths of the movie. Tanya Roberts would most likely had been kept, one can only hope with fever "Oh, James!"
Bottom line: My guess is that Dalton's version would have been better and fresher, but nowhere near a classsic.
@Firemass Sorry if misunderstood the question. I would say that as long as the writers changed a few things around like the sight gags, and omitted the fire truck chase, and with Dalton as the lead I am sure that I would have enjoyed the film more.
He really would of had misty eyes.
I'm sure Dalton would be highly praised for doing the exact same things that Roger is criticized for: Wearing a leather jacket, cooking quiche, opting not to sleep with Stacy, hopping in bed with Mayday, and driving a crappy Ford LTD.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
No worries mate. I also misread the essay question as Jarvio was clearly addressing the AVTAK haters.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Would they have replaced the prinicpals (Q, M, Moneypenny) with new actors?
Hard to say. Were they under contract for that film? If so, it would have cost a lot to break those contracts. I suspect it was another reason they kept Moore despite his obvious age.
Retreading the GF plot was obviously due to EON having dug themselves into a rut for having Moore so long. The series had lost it's edge and despite the attempt at several clever set pieces as the Eiffel Tower, it was all starting to pall, and one of the worst sins in a Bond film is to have a fight scene that lacks any tension or danger.
As with TLD, AVTAK with Dalton probably would have still had some scenes and bad limp puns left over from Moore, but it would have been a better film with a better plot.
I think we have begun to miss the point of the original question. Would AVTAK have been better with Dalton as Bond, NOT would AVTAK have been better had it had a different script and entirely different cast. We all know the answer to that.
As far as I can remember, no it wasn't....I'm sure it was written in a similar style as the Moore Bond films...but NOT for Moore - they all knew it was time to move on...the script was 'amended' for Dalton...
Yes, I remember now. It was amended. Cheers old bean.
Broccoli even asked him to continue but Moore said no.
So I assume safely that the script has been pretty much solely done for Dalton.
Glad to see Asp9mm being wrong again! It's like the good old times
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
AVTAK still might not have been a good Bond film because of the weak script, as you metioned, but I think it would have been "better". For example, the action scenes certainly would been improved by having an actor who looked like he could actually run or throw a punch or a kick without so many glimpses of obvious stunt doubles.
However a large part of the stunt work has been done by Julienne and his team and the French are always crap in hiding their stunt people.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Granted, maybe the action scenes would have been staged better, but those would not have improved the film enough for me. DAF had a terrific fight scene in the elevator, but I though it was the only highlight of the film.