Well, Sir Miles, Liverpool were the first team to play in an FA Cup Final without a single English player in the starting XI, that was 1986, but that's not what I meant.
I was actually thinking of the absence of Academy players (and Scottish and Irish-scouted players) that Liverpool have had recently - particularly during the Rafa years. I should have specified. There were indeed English players during that time like Crouch, Warnock etc, but the only Academy players who've been consistent first team players until the last season or two were Gerrard and Carragher. We had little bits of others, but none ever really broke through. It was such a shame because Liverpool were always so connected to the local community and had a huge following north of the border and across the water because they always had such a high content of local lads etc, but Rafa seemed to turn away from those traditional recruiting grounds and instead shop in Spain etc. Apart from Stevie G and Carragher, the only consistent England players during Rafa's reign had been bought. That's why it's good to see the likes of Kelly and Flanagan doing well but it's still a long way from the days when Liverpool's academy and scouts were churning out great British and Irish talent regularly.
True, but some where there
As for the Rafa years...?...I fully take your point, although he did sign David Martin, David Amoo, Jermaine Pennant, Glen Johnson, Scott Carson, Peter Crouch, Jack Hobbs, Paul Anderson, Ryan Crowther and Robbie Fowler - of which 5 played for England...plus others played under him before being moved on. Not a glorious time for home grown talent though...of the current crop I believe only Flanagan is from Liverpool - I know it gives Kelly as being from the Liverpool region but I've been told he was born in Bolton - or raised there for a short time. So - we still have only two 'home grown' players in the team...and one of those will not be first choice next season !
I agree with 99% of everything The Domino Effect wrote...but Liverpool have always had a few English players and I'm not sure which 'years' you are referring too...?
I've watched quite a few Under 21 matches this last season - and most of the teams are packed with foreign talent...but there does seem to be more English players playing at Under 18 level...
welshboy78 please don't think I was arguing with you...it was merely a different opinion...I hope I didn't offend you.
Ha no offence taken mate!
Interesting debate.
Are the English players that bad though or is it the system? Looking at the Uruguay squad take out a few of the stars and they have a fair few rookies with a few caps and then of course people like Coates. They struggle dot qualify and in South America are seen as an average team the last few years who rely on Suarez.
Also I guess the qualifiers did not really help (or rather test) England.
I agree though the bloat of the Premier League and price tags of the domestic players are quite ridiculous. Its just too much money. For example - Lallana is getting quoted with a 30 million price tag, obviously a great young talent but for that price you would expect an established superstar.
the question is , not why did we loose ? but why did we expect to win ? until we can get rid of the bloated buffoons at the F,A, and get a team manager who has an ounce of charisma /style /class/ get up and go ect we will always be crap X-(
Maybe I am not quite the best to comment as I'm outside the UK but from the UK news channels and reading the papers etc I felt there was really not much expectation on this England side and then all of a sudden when the tournament started the pressure instantly ramped up in the media. Maybe I'm wrong but I felt the expectation kind of came out of nowhere this time
I do think Uruguay are a bit of a two-man team, in fact. They are solid, but unremarkable except for Cavani and Suarez. I think you'll see Italy put two men on the latter and keep a close eye on Cavani and that will be it for Uruguay. Italy haven't been great by any stretch, but I think they'll be good enough to stop Uruguay on Tuesday.
I do think Uruguay are a bit of a two-man team, in fact. They are solid, but unremarkable except for Cavani and Suarez. I think you'll see Italy put two men on the latter and keep a close eye on Cavani and that will be it for Uruguay. Italy haven't been great by any stretch, but I think they'll be good enough to stop Uruguay on Tuesday.
Cavani is soo overrated considering his price tag. Every time I watch him he misses sitters, wether its for PSG or Uruguay.
Italy V Uruguay will indeed be interesting, I would not want to call that one though imagine Uruguay will be confident and Italy maybe a bit shocked after today.
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Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
Are the English players that bad though or is it the system? Looking at the Uruguay squad take out a few of the stars and they have a fair few rookies with a few caps and then of course people like Coates. They struggle dot qualify and in South America are seen as an average team the last few years who rely on Suarez.
Also I guess the qualifiers did not really help (or rather test) England.
I agree though the bloat of the Premier League and price tags of the domestic players are quite ridiculous. Its just too much money. For example - Lallana is getting quoted with a 30 million price tag, obviously a great young talent but for that price you would expect an established superstar.
Wonder if the bubble will ever burst? It needs to
Ok...quick points....
Yes, on the whole the English players are that bad...certainly not enough good ones and tactically deficient...the Uruguay players are slightly better on the ball BUT they crunch into the tackle too ! Their captain should have been sent off...
Liverpool have offered £25m for Lallana - Southampton want £30m+ ...they owe Bournmouth 25% of any profit - couple that with the fact there is a premium on English players, he's also 26/27 and it looks like we can get better value for money with Shaqiri - sound familiar ?
Bubble will not burst soon - Sky and now BT are pumping FAR too much money in...the worst thing is that most of this money leaves the game in players and agents pockets...it needs to filter down the game...
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
Maybe I am not quite the best to comment as I'm outside the UK but from the UK news channels and reading the papers etc I felt there was really not much expectation on this England side and then all of a sudden when the tournament started the pressure instantly ramped up in the media. Maybe I'm wrong but I felt the expectation kind of came out of nowhere this time
Hmmm....for a change reality kicked in with the press and results proved we are behind lots of countries - even though we are world ranked 10th !
Then....
Sturridge, Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Barkley et al came to the fore and suddenly it looked like the 'Golden Generation Part 2' !
Add Wilshire and Stones...possibly Flanagan too...and the press started to ramp up the pressure - again !
The world rankings are now and have always been such a joke...like Switzerland being the FIFA seeded team in their group! FIFA rankings are completely and totally worthless.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
The world rankings are now and have always been such a joke...like Switzerland being the FIFA seeded team in their group! FIFA rankings are completely and totally worthless.
So true...I understand they need to have a system in place to calculate this but the current one is not fit for purpose.
USA v Portugal tonight , even the yanks have more points than us and they don't even play the bloody game
(selection committee to employ the new chairman of the FA )
oh heres a likely candidate for the job,
whats his qualifications ?
oh he used to run the BBC ,
hmmm sounds like the right man for the job then,
USA v Portugal tonight , even the yanks have more points than us and they don't even play the bloody game
(selection committee to employ the new chairman of the FA )
oh heres a likely candidate for the job,
whats his qualifications ?
oh he used to run the BBC ,
hmmm sounds like the right man for the job then,
Greg Dyke is better than the last few Chairmen though - but that IS being damned with faint praise !
The darn lot of them need clearing away - it is just an 'old boys' club and the game has moved on....still, it's not as bent as FIFA !
Tough last-minute equaliser for the U.S., but Portugal still looked like the defeated team when they left the pitch seconds later. They've got their work against them. They not only have to beat Ghana (do-able, but not definite) and hope that Germany beat the U.S. (likely, but not guaranteed), but have to overcome a goal difference that currently stands at 5. Now, that is a big ask. The U.S. could lose 3-0 to the Bondtoys XI and Portugal could beat Ghana 1-0 and Portugal would still be out.
Holland and France remain the only two teams who've really impressed me so far. Brazil slithered past Croatia and were held by Mexico, while Germany didn't have it easy against Ghana. Chile are good, but like Uruguay and Argentina, not good enough to win it all...at least not yet.
I'd be very happy to shee Holland win it all, yesh I would!
Comments
True, but some where there
As for the Rafa years...?...I fully take your point, although he did sign David Martin, David Amoo, Jermaine Pennant, Glen Johnson, Scott Carson, Peter Crouch, Jack Hobbs, Paul Anderson, Ryan Crowther and Robbie Fowler - of which 5 played for England...plus others played under him before being moved on. Not a glorious time for home grown talent though...of the current crop I believe only Flanagan is from Liverpool - I know it gives Kelly as being from the Liverpool region but I've been told he was born in Bolton - or raised there for a short time. So - we still have only two 'home grown' players in the team...and one of those will not be first choice next season !
Ha no offence taken mate!
Interesting debate.
Are the English players that bad though or is it the system? Looking at the Uruguay squad take out a few of the stars and they have a fair few rookies with a few caps and then of course people like Coates. They struggle dot qualify and in South America are seen as an average team the last few years who rely on Suarez.
Also I guess the qualifiers did not really help (or rather test) England.
I agree though the bloat of the Premier League and price tags of the domestic players are quite ridiculous. Its just too much money. For example - Lallana is getting quoted with a 30 million price tag, obviously a great young talent but for that price you would expect an established superstar.
Wonder if the bubble will ever burst? It needs to
Maybe I am not quite the best to comment as I'm outside the UK but from the UK news channels and reading the papers etc I felt there was really not much expectation on this England side and then all of a sudden when the tournament started the pressure instantly ramped up in the media. Maybe I'm wrong but I felt the expectation kind of came out of nowhere this time
Cavani is soo overrated considering his price tag. Every time I watch him he misses sitters, wether its for PSG or Uruguay.
Italy V Uruguay will indeed be interesting, I would not want to call that one though imagine Uruguay will be confident and Italy maybe a bit shocked after today.
Ok...quick points....
Yes, on the whole the English players are that bad...certainly not enough good ones and tactically deficient...the Uruguay players are slightly better on the ball BUT they crunch into the tackle too ! Their captain should have been sent off...
Liverpool have offered £25m for Lallana - Southampton want £30m+ ...they owe Bournmouth 25% of any profit - couple that with the fact there is a premium on English players, he's also 26/27 and it looks like we can get better value for money with Shaqiri - sound familiar ?
Bubble will not burst soon - Sky and now BT are pumping FAR too much money in...the worst thing is that most of this money leaves the game in players and agents pockets...it needs to filter down the game...
Hmmm....for a change reality kicked in with the press and results proved we are behind lots of countries - even though we are world ranked 10th !
Then....
Sturridge, Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Barkley et al came to the fore and suddenly it looked like the 'Golden Generation Part 2' !
Add Wilshire and Stones...possibly Flanagan too...and the press started to ramp up the pressure - again !
So true...I understand they need to have a system in place to calculate this but the current one is not fit for purpose.
he says "this LALLANA, who does he play for? " Southampton ,comes the reply
oh now im really scared, and people wonder why we loose , 8-)
(selection committee to employ the new chairman of the FA )
oh heres a likely candidate for the job,
whats his qualifications ?
oh he used to run the BBC ,
hmmm sounds like the right man for the job then,
Greg Dyke is better than the last few Chairmen though - but that IS being damned with faint praise !
The darn lot of them need clearing away - it is just an 'old boys' club and the game has moved on....still, it's not as bent as FIFA !
Of course !
Where's the old Columbo repeats when I need them.
Our Prime Minister can find the time to play football as well as
Run the country.
Still think will go through second place
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Who were outclassed by the mighty Ghana
Let's see how your boys handle the almighty Costa Rica tonight
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It does indeed - shows I know my football
I think we will hammer Costa Rica tonight - probably put ten past them....unfortunately we play them Tuesday
Yes Tuesday night, might be a different story.
http://home.bt.com/news/showbiznews/uri-gellers-world-cup-snub-hurt-england-11363913755940
Spoon-bending psychic Uri Geller says he could have improved England's World Cup fortunes if Roy Hodgson had invited him to Brazil. 8-)
I'd be very happy to shee Holland win it all, yesh I would!