Thunderball, because of the underwater scenes. The battle speeds up the pace of the film. The scenes where Largo is shifting the bombs is really slow and unnecessary. The pacing is all over the place.
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"
There was a bit of " drag" in Thunderball, at the start. )
must admit Thunderball was way way down on my list ,but did like NSNA though 8-)
but having been to a few of the locations in Nassau ,the straw market ,Bay street ect ,
I now watch it in a different light,its a bit like seeing your home town on the TV ,its familiar to you bit hard to put into words 8-)
Thunderball is -- for me at least -- the very worst Bond film of the '60s. The pace is agonizing, the characters are ancillary... the whole thing is the cinematic equivalent of a wealthy snob flashing his Rolex collection. All style and no substance. And I never want to watch it again.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
the very worst Bond film of the '60s. The pace is agonizing, the characters are ancillary... the whole thing is the cinematic equivalent of a wealthy snob flashing his Rolex collection. All style and no substance. And I never want to watch it again.
Wait- you mean GF, right? Or YOLT possibly?
;%
Because TB only really suffers from speeded-up rear projection in the finale, and some slow & unnecessary exposition during the Vulcan-securing sequence, as far as I can make out... 8-)
I like TB because it's on an epic scale, it's on a par with all the big 60s
War films. -{
It could be said that TB was one of the FIRST blockbuster films. Back in those days, movies played longer in theatres & word of mouth counted for a LOT. Big box office back then usually DID mean pretty high quality IMO. -{
I like TB because it's on an epic scale, it's on a par with all the big 60s
War films. -{
I agree very much with that, TP. In fact the ending when all the divers are parachuted in by the US Government always reminds me of classic British gunboat diplomacy. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
the very worst Bond film of the '60s. The pace is agonizing, the characters are ancillary... the whole thing is the cinematic equivalent of a wealthy snob flashing his Rolex collection. All style and no substance. And I never want to watch it again.
Wait- you mean GF, right? Or YOLT possibly?
;%
Because TB only really suffers from speeded-up rear projection in the finale, and some slow & unnecessary exposition during the Vulcan-securing sequence, as far as I can make out... 8-)
You Only Live Twice might be the "worse" film on a somewhat objective basis, but I admire the level of ambition and the scale of the ninja assault on Blofeld's volcano. Also you can see Lewis Gilbert's stamp on the visuals, which are some of the best in the Sean Connery era. But Thunderball, for my money, doesn't even feel like a Terence Young film, let alone his previous two Bond entries, with its kitschy cross-cuts and Connery basically meandering through every scene like a Long Island vacationer (as opposed to, say, Goldfinger, where he spends most of the movie in imminent danger). Thunderball is also jam-packed with characters who serve little to no purpose (every CIA extra including Felix Leiter) some even written specifically for the movie (Fiona Volpe), Adolfo Celi is boring as Largo, Claudine Auger is given nothing to do... I could go on.
I know I'm rather vehement about my distaste for Thunderball, but I feel that I need to be, considering that the movie's own financial success and critical approval run contrary to my own observations. You Only Live Twice doesn't really hold up & everyone seems to know it, but I just can't bring myself to say anything nice about Thunderball.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I know I'm rather vehement about my distaste for Thunderball, but I feel that I need to be, considering that the movie's own financial success and critical approval run contrary to my own observations.
Fair enough to say.
I think Batman & Robin is a fine comedy in the 60's TV mode, so we all have our individual points of view that go against the grain, eh?
I know I'm rather vehement about my distaste for Thunderball, but I feel that I need to be, considering that the movie's own financial success and critical approval run contrary to my own observations.
Fair enough to say.
I think Batman & Robin is a fine comedy in the 60's TV mode, so we all have our individual points of view that go against the grain, eh?
True that! -{
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I think it holds up quite well as a very entertaining, although OTT, Bond film.
I agree with you there. For me, the major faults of YOLT would have to be Donald Pleasence as Blofeld (often worshipped as a classic villain... I personally think he's a grossly overrated caricature of the Blofeld that Fleming envisioned), the pacing kind of slows to a crawl near the middle & the less said about James Bond being turned into a Japanese fisherman, the better. Otherwise there is a lot going for it; Lewis Gilbert has tremendous visual style, the volcano climax is thrilling... you can see the level of ambition laid bare. Thunderball might have been a Bond film on a massive scale, but somehow YOLT feels bigger.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
What exactly did roald dahl hate about the Concept of Fleming's Novel?
I can't remember what Dahl hated about the novel specifically (bored with it, I guess?) but he was under instructions to write the YOLT screenplay within a set "three girl" formula. To his credit, though, I think he came up with the volcano lair. I'll need to read a little bit more about the circumstances to refresh my memory.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I think it holds up quite well as a very entertaining, although OTT, Bond film.
I agree with you there. For me, the major faults of YOLT would have to be Donald Pleasence as Blofeld (often worshipped as a classic villain... I personally think he's a grossly overrated caricature of the Blofeld that Fleming envisioned), the pacing kind of slows to a crawl near the middle & the less said about James Bond being turned into a Japanese fisherman, the better. Otherwise there is a lot going for it; Lewis Gilbert has tremendous visual style, the volcano climax is thrilling... you can see the level of ambition laid bare. Thunderball might have been a Bond film on a massive scale, but somehow YOLT feels bigger.
As much as I love YOLT, I agree it has its weaknesses. Particularly Pleasance as Blofeld and the "Japanese Bond", as you pointed out.
There's only one Bond film from the 60s that's not in my top 10 - You Only Live Twice. I didn't think it was a bad film, mind you, but such was the quality of Bond films from the 60s that I thought You Only Live Twice was the weakest of them all. I still rate it higher than a lot of other Bond films, though.
Hard to choose between OHMSS and TB due to the tedious pacing.
FRWL is also a bit of a drag. I've tried really hard to like FRWL, but I finally just gave up. It's too friggin slow! )
I agree that Thunderball was a bit slow, to an extent - particularly the underwater sequences. But I fail to see how On Her Majesty's Secret Service or From Russia With Love to be "a bit of a drag". Sure, it may not be as fast paced as more modern Bond films such as Quantum of Solace and Casino Royale, but to me, it is at the right pace when compared with the pace of the Fleming novels.
I just cant enjoy TB which is a shame as everyone else seems to like it.
For me the problem is that when you get to the end you don't really feel like anything has been accomplished because the plot and any sense of danger are so downplayed in favour of almost creating a "Bondish" Bond which has all the generic series stereotypes (basically trying to copy Goldfinger). I like the opening fight and the Spectre briefing scenes and I also quite like Largo because he's a villain in the Savalas Blofeld mould in that he mucks in and gets some action. But while some scenes seem to take forever like the overlong Health Spa sequence and the tedious underwater scenes, some sections seem a bit rushed such as especially the middle section and the end fight. It just feels incompetently done. Nothing can take away from Connery's performance and while I think he is (slightly) less enthusiastic in YOLT, that film is much more of an enjoyable film.
I just cant enjoy TB which is a shame as everyone else seems to like it.
For me the problem is that when you get to the end you don't really feel like anything has been accomplished because the plot and any sense of danger are so downplayed in favour of almost creating a "Bondish" Bond which has all the generic series stereotypes (basically trying to copy Goldfinger). I like the opening fight and the Spectre briefing scenes and I also quite like Largo because he's a villain in the Savalas Blofeld mould in that he mucks in and gets some action. But while some scenes seem to take forever like the overlong Health Spa sequence and the tedious underwater scenes, some sections seem a bit rushed such as especially the middle section and the end fight. It just feels incompetently done. Nothing can take away from Connery's performance and while I think he is (slightly) less enthusiastic in YOLT, that film is much more of an enjoyable film.
All of this. I'm fairly pragmatic when it comes to laying blame for "bad" Bond movies, but in the case of Thunderball I can't help but point fingers at Kevin McClory. He showed way too much faith in the Thunderball formula, which has expensive warships and airplanes taking centre stage, and would continue to do so the same thing in Never Say Never Again; bringing jetpacks and missile-launching motorbikes into the action just for the sake of it. How else does one explain such humdrum work from otherwise capable directors like Terence Young & Irvin Kershner?
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Nonsense. TB was a cool flick. It was just a big film to do in a short time, And Kershner isn't that great of a director anyway. Have you seen his other films (like Robocop 2)? Yeah, A Fine Madness ( also with Connery) was great, but the actual direction is merely competent.
Nonsense. TB was a cool flick. It was just a big film to do in a short time, And Kershner isn't that great of a director anyway. Have you seen his other films (like Robocop 2)? Yeah, A Fine Madness ( also with Connery) was great, but the actual direction is merely competent.
Not a "great" director per se, but he can do good stuff given the right material (Empire Strikes Back & Fine Madness). But I mean, he's no Terence Young.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
My main problem with TB is Largo. He's just not that good a villain. Behind the eye patch, there ain't much there
For my money Klaus Maria Brandauer is the superior Largo; he has pathos & a sufficient backstory. He's much closer to the Largo that Fleming envisioned, who was described as rather young and attractive, whereas Adolfo Celi basically embodied the "Bond villain" archetype parodied countless times. Meanwhile Brandauer has that awesome scene where he decimates her studio with a fire axe. Love it.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Comments
FRWL is also a bit of a drag. I've tried really hard to like FRWL, but I finally just gave up. It's too friggin slow!
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
must admit Thunderball was way way down on my list ,but did like NSNA though 8-)
but having been to a few of the locations in Nassau ,the straw market ,Bay street ect ,
I now watch it in a different light,its a bit like seeing your home town on the TV ,its familiar to you bit hard to put into words 8-)
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
;%
Because TB only really suffers from speeded-up rear projection in the finale, and some slow & unnecessary exposition during the Vulcan-securing sequence, as far as I can make out... 8-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
War films. -{
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I agree very much with that, TP. In fact the ending when all the divers are parachuted in by the US Government always reminds me of classic British gunboat diplomacy. -{
You Only Live Twice might be the "worse" film on a somewhat objective basis, but I admire the level of ambition and the scale of the ninja assault on Blofeld's volcano. Also you can see Lewis Gilbert's stamp on the visuals, which are some of the best in the Sean Connery era. But Thunderball, for my money, doesn't even feel like a Terence Young film, let alone his previous two Bond entries, with its kitschy cross-cuts and Connery basically meandering through every scene like a Long Island vacationer (as opposed to, say, Goldfinger, where he spends most of the movie in imminent danger). Thunderball is also jam-packed with characters who serve little to no purpose (every CIA extra including Felix Leiter) some even written specifically for the movie (Fiona Volpe), Adolfo Celi is boring as Largo, Claudine Auger is given nothing to do... I could go on.
I know I'm rather vehement about my distaste for Thunderball, but I feel that I need to be, considering that the movie's own financial success and critical approval run contrary to my own observations. You Only Live Twice doesn't really hold up & everyone seems to know it, but I just can't bring myself to say anything nice about Thunderball.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I think Batman & Robin is a fine comedy in the 60's TV mode, so we all have our individual points of view that go against the grain, eh?
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
True that! -{
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I think it holds up quite well as a very entertaining, although OTT, Bond film.
I agree with you there. For me, the major faults of YOLT would have to be Donald Pleasence as Blofeld (often worshipped as a classic villain... I personally think he's a grossly overrated caricature of the Blofeld that Fleming envisioned), the pacing kind of slows to a crawl near the middle & the less said about James Bond being turned into a Japanese fisherman, the better. Otherwise there is a lot going for it; Lewis Gilbert has tremendous visual style, the volcano climax is thrilling... you can see the level of ambition laid bare. Thunderball might have been a Bond film on a massive scale, but somehow YOLT feels bigger.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
I can't remember what Dahl hated about the novel specifically (bored with it, I guess?) but he was under instructions to write the YOLT screenplay within a set "three girl" formula. To his credit, though, I think he came up with the volcano lair. I'll need to read a little bit more about the circumstances to refresh my memory.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
As much as I love YOLT, I agree it has its weaknesses. Particularly Pleasance as Blofeld and the "Japanese Bond", as you pointed out.
I agree that Thunderball was a bit slow, to an extent - particularly the underwater sequences. But I fail to see how On Her Majesty's Secret Service or From Russia With Love to be "a bit of a drag". Sure, it may not be as fast paced as more modern Bond films such as Quantum of Solace and Casino Royale, but to me, it is at the right pace when compared with the pace of the Fleming novels.
For me the problem is that when you get to the end you don't really feel like anything has been accomplished because the plot and any sense of danger are so downplayed in favour of almost creating a "Bondish" Bond which has all the generic series stereotypes (basically trying to copy Goldfinger). I like the opening fight and the Spectre briefing scenes and I also quite like Largo because he's a villain in the Savalas Blofeld mould in that he mucks in and gets some action. But while some scenes seem to take forever like the overlong Health Spa sequence and the tedious underwater scenes, some sections seem a bit rushed such as especially the middle section and the end fight. It just feels incompetently done. Nothing can take away from Connery's performance and while I think he is (slightly) less enthusiastic in YOLT, that film is much more of an enjoyable film.
All of this. I'm fairly pragmatic when it comes to laying blame for "bad" Bond movies, but in the case of Thunderball I can't help but point fingers at Kevin McClory. He showed way too much faith in the Thunderball formula, which has expensive warships and airplanes taking centre stage, and would continue to do so the same thing in Never Say Never Again; bringing jetpacks and missile-launching motorbikes into the action just for the sake of it. How else does one explain such humdrum work from otherwise capable directors like Terence Young & Irvin Kershner?
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Not a "great" director per se, but he can do good stuff given the right material (Empire Strikes Back & Fine Madness). But I mean, he's no Terence Young.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
Many villains do.
" Roman nose" as described by Fleming.
For my money Klaus Maria Brandauer is the superior Largo; he has pathos & a sufficient backstory. He's much closer to the Largo that Fleming envisioned, who was described as rather young and attractive, whereas Adolfo Celi basically embodied the "Bond villain" archetype parodied countless times. Meanwhile Brandauer has that awesome scene where he decimates her studio with a fire axe. Love it.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger