Make sure to cross-check all these dodgy infos from him (Asp9mm) with google 8-)
He's even dumb enough to lose his watch in a shower in the middle of nowhere and later buy a Bremont
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
You bought a Belmont? You're an idiot. I did buy something to go with my HS01 though. I got a near mint 5512 from the same guy. he's a real knife collecting nut, and his whim for collecting watches has faded
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
It's amazing how much those myths have taken hold and suddenly become 'fact'. But if you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Fullers originally were put on curved swords. Now why would a curved sword, which is primarily a slashing weapon need that? Sure they can be used for stabbing too, but the fuller starts well past the point where it would be useful. So it's pretty obvious that it was to lighten and strengthen long blades. The same for knives too as a fuller does prevent lateral bending and twisting of the blade.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I think the main reason they are reported as being **** is because they are trying to use them as utility knives too. As a bayonet, they work. It's rare you'll find a bayonet that is good for use as a utility/military knife too.
Try telling that to my old instructor & see where he would place his boot! Also try using the 'G' word instead of 'rifle' or 'weapon' would initiate a similar response. Have you ever handled an SLR bayonet? Just wondering how much weight would be saved?
You're absolutely correct!
The only place where Asp9mm has handled anything looking like weapon was in his endless hours of playing WoW in his kid's room in his mommy's house
And his arse is so huge that your instructor will hardly miss it
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Wasn't referring to any other thread, I dunno what ya on about there.
The very little I know about old asp is enough to tell me when it comes to this kinda subject he usually knows what he's talking about, in fact I've never seen him proven wrong.
I've heard the old 'the fuller is there to let the blood out/air in' before and also have been told by enough serving and past members of HM forces to know it's a load of bollocks.
I think the weight saving idea is mainly concerning blades that'd actually benefit from it, ie the longer blades of swords. Not all blades have fullers, the most famous example being the fairburn Sykes.
Design aspect or weight saving, take your pick. Either way it's not to let blood out or air in.
The reason I said about blue touch paper being lit was because asp is regarded as gospel on these matters on Ajb, how dare you question his knowledge! <---- tongue in cheek comment.
I'm just waiting for someone to throw the old 'a Gurkha must draw blood before putting his kukri away' bollocks now....
Also if you see one you will notice it has a channel milled into it along its length. This is to allow the flow of blood to escape.
That's an old myth perpetuated for generations and totally untrue, as is the suction thing. The 'fuller' or groove is actually there to make the blade lighter but without forfeiting strength. Pulling the knife out makes the blood flow pretty well. Slashing causes blood flow. A stab doesn't need blood to flow as you are sticking the vital organs, and you certainly can't get a knife stuck in flesh by suction, and a groove wouldn't help if it did as flesh conforms.
Try telling that to my old instructor & see where he would place his boot! Also try using the 'G' word instead of 'rifle' or 'weapon' would initiate a similar response. Have you ever handled an SLR bayonet? Just wondering how much weight would be saved?
Just because they are instructors, doesn't mean they know anything about design or history. In fact it's probably down to green army instructors that the myth was perpetuated. I fell for the same BS and passed it on myself until I found out the truth. Gun, weapon, pistol, rifle, long, short. Doesn't matter now. We aren't there anymore, this is a Bond forum afterall, and most people don't know or care about correct nomenclature. Although, if I read another novel where the magazine is called a clip, I swear I'll go nuts.
Yes, I have handled bayonets and come to that swords, knives, longs, shorts etc of all descriptions. The most successful stabbing weapon design, the FS knife had no fuller, but a deeper spine than any other knife. Didn't need a fuller, that's because knives don't get stuck due to suction, and you don't need a body to bleed out when you stab a vital organ. That's just physics and plain common sense. Bleeding internally is bleeding. A knife if it has a saw back or parallel blade shape can get snagged in bone and dense muscle though.
Since 2004 I've designed knives and worked with custom makers and other companies and organisations in this field. I also collect antique arms, especially swords and historically interesting blades. Everyone who knows the history of blades and has a deep interest in the field knows that the blood groove and suction story is a myth, just like the Ghurka kukri having the 'cho' there so the user can draw blood by nicking his own thumb if it is drawn without shedding anyone else's blood.
The weight issue is negligible surely? I can understand if it stiffened the blade or something.
Not on a sword where weight and balance are important. On Japanese swords and even our own cruciform types, the fuller was put in to finely balance the blade. On a knife it is mostly there to strengthen and increase rigidity as a full flat or sabre grind can bend and flex when entering dense material.
Gents not wanting to upset anyone but according to the instructional Manual for the L85A2 Rifle and its accessories states that
"The recesses along the blade are blood channels to reduce any suction effect and enable a clean withdrawal from the body."
As for weight saving its possible but not likely as the rifle it attaches to weighs enough any way.
I always thought M was a randomly assigned initial, i had no idea it stood for.....
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
Gents not wanting to upset anyone but according to the instructional Manual for the L85A2 Rifle and its accessories states that
"The recesses along the blade are blood channels to reduce any suction effect and enable a clean withdrawal from the body."
As for weight saving its possible but not likely as the rifle it attaches to weighs enough any way.
It says that in many manuals and books. But it's just wrong. If suction was really an issue, the fuller would go right to the end of the blade. The design is bad in this way too as the right angles in the fuller could actually cause the muscle to grip onto that if stabbing into dense muscle tissue and it contracts. But it's on a great stonking rifle that has multiple parts for a firm grip, so it won't get stuck even if you stab a tree with it. The swedge also adds to this. It's not a bad weapon, but like the original spec SA80, it was designed by committee to be a jack of all trades, and not really by the end user.
Weight saving is more for swords than knives. Although many makers of knives use this method to lighten and balance their blades. It's usually down to laziness though, as a good knife maker would do this when designing the blade, not afterwards. they are mostly there for show on lower end blades.
ASP I agree that the in service Bayonet could be improved but unfortunately it isn't likely to happen. But regardless soilders are taught what it says in black and white, whether or not the person who wrote that material actually knew what he was on about I can't say.
Minigeff it's 11.199 lbs for the Rifle with magazine and SUSAT fitted and sorry no my copy of the manual is in paper format, but I'm sure it's out there on the Web some where.
I always thought M was a randomly assigned initial, i had no idea it stood for.....
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
It's just a sales point that was probably pushed by the designers. Like the Buckmaster 184 and 185 that was sold to SEALs for a very short period. It had lots of design features like 'blood fuller' 'anchor points' and 'saw back' that were all absolutely useless outside the design team board room.
It's just a sales point that was probably pushed by the designers. Like the Buckmaster 184 and 185 that was sold to SEALs for a very short period. It had lots of design features like 'blood fuller' 'anchor points' and 'saw back' that were all absolutely useless outside the design team board room.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I'm more a L9A1 man
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Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
It's just a sales point that was probably pushed by the designers. Like the Buckmaster 184 and 185 that was sold to SEALs for a very short period. It had lots of design features like 'blood fuller' 'anchor points' and 'saw back' that were all absolutely useless outside the design team board room.
Not quite!
I don't know about the Buckmasterwhatsit, but since the dawn of bayonets there have been models with saw back. They were especially popular during "The Great War" among the central powers.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Comments
He's even dumb enough to lose his watch in a shower in the middle of nowhere and later buy a Bremont
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It's amazing how much those myths have taken hold and suddenly become 'fact'. But if you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Fullers originally were put on curved swords. Now why would a curved sword, which is primarily a slashing weapon need that? Sure they can be used for stabbing too, but the fuller starts well past the point where it would be useful. So it's pretty obvious that it was to lighten and strengthen long blades. The same for knives too as a fuller does prevent lateral bending and twisting of the blade.
I'd like an L85A2 bayonet but I'm told by many that they're ****.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
You're absolutely correct!
The only place where Asp9mm has handled anything looking like weapon was in his endless hours of playing WoW in his kid's room in his mommy's house
And his arse is so huge that your instructor will hardly miss it
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The very little I know about old asp is enough to tell me when it comes to this kinda subject he usually knows what he's talking about, in fact I've never seen him proven wrong.
I've heard the old 'the fuller is there to let the blood out/air in' before and also have been told by enough serving and past members of HM forces to know it's a load of bollocks.
I think the weight saving idea is mainly concerning blades that'd actually benefit from it, ie the longer blades of swords. Not all blades have fullers, the most famous example being the fairburn Sykes.
Design aspect or weight saving, take your pick. Either way it's not to let blood out or air in.
The reason I said about blue touch paper being lit was because asp is regarded as gospel on these matters on Ajb, how dare you question his knowledge! <---- tongue in cheek comment.
I'm just waiting for someone to throw the old 'a Gurkha must draw blood before putting his kukri away' bollocks now....
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Makes me wonder is we can find a proper term for that for the AJB glossary?? ?:)
Maybe Higgins sanity versus Asp9mm stupidity?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Who's the bitch and who's the butch though?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Just because they are instructors, doesn't mean they know anything about design or history. In fact it's probably down to green army instructors that the myth was perpetuated. I fell for the same BS and passed it on myself until I found out the truth. Gun, weapon, pistol, rifle, long, short. Doesn't matter now. We aren't there anymore, this is a Bond forum afterall, and most people don't know or care about correct nomenclature. Although, if I read another novel where the magazine is called a clip, I swear I'll go nuts.
Yes, I have handled bayonets and come to that swords, knives, longs, shorts etc of all descriptions. The most successful stabbing weapon design, the FS knife had no fuller, but a deeper spine than any other knife. Didn't need a fuller, that's because knives don't get stuck due to suction, and you don't need a body to bleed out when you stab a vital organ. That's just physics and plain common sense. Bleeding internally is bleeding. A knife if it has a saw back or parallel blade shape can get snagged in bone and dense muscle though.
Since 2004 I've designed knives and worked with custom makers and other companies and organisations in this field. I also collect antique arms, especially swords and historically interesting blades. Everyone who knows the history of blades and has a deep interest in the field knows that the blood groove and suction story is a myth, just like the Ghurka kukri having the 'cho' there so the user can draw blood by nicking his own thumb if it is drawn without shedding anyone else's blood.
Asp, pm coming your way....
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Not on a sword where weight and balance are important. On Japanese swords and even our own cruciform types, the fuller was put in to finely balance the blade. On a knife it is mostly there to strengthen and increase rigidity as a full flat or sabre grind can bend and flex when entering dense material.
"The recesses along the blade are blood channels to reduce any suction effect and enable a clean withdrawal from the body."
As for weight saving its possible but not likely as the rifle it attaches to weighs enough any way.
It says that in many manuals and books. But it's just wrong. If suction was really an issue, the fuller would go right to the end of the blade. The design is bad in this way too as the right angles in the fuller could actually cause the muscle to grip onto that if stabbing into dense muscle tissue and it contracts. But it's on a great stonking rifle that has multiple parts for a firm grip, so it won't get stuck even if you stab a tree with it. The swedge also adds to this. It's not a bad weapon, but like the original spec SA80, it was designed by committee to be a jack of all trades, and not really by the end user.
Weight saving is more for swords than knives. Although many makers of knives use this method to lighten and balance their blades. It's usually down to laziness though, as a good knife maker would do this when designing the blade, not afterwards. they are mostly there for show on lower end blades.
Got a shot of that manual?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Someone mentioning any kind of weapon and Asp9mm goes totally
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Minigeff it's 11.199 lbs for the Rifle with magazine and SUSAT fitted and sorry no my copy of the manual is in paper format, but I'm sure it's out there on the Web some where.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That's quite funny coming from a pudding brain like yourself.
I'm not mentioning it
Que?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm quite fond of the Sig 229 myself, although I have carried the Browning before.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ZEDNkZ2L4
Mentioning what?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Not quite!
I don't know about the Buckmasterwhatsit, but since the dawn of bayonets there have been models with saw back. They were especially popular during "The Great War" among the central powers.
-Mr Arlington Beech