Does DC's Bond believe in God?

MrZareba

I tried to find a similar topic before but without success. One day this question popped up in my mind - in "Casino Royale" he says to Vesper "I do hate when religion comes between us" after she says she's Roman-Catholic. In "Skyfall", after seeing Kincade for the first time, he says "Good God, you're still alive?". Both are of course used not literally here - the first one is a joke, the second one is a common expression even among Atheists but I was just wondering. What do you think?

Thunderpussy

I remember a Thread asking this question before and think My view hasn't changed.
I assume Bond to be Church of England, but not an active member. Like many of us
It's there for, Weddings, Funerals and christenings.
Both examples you point out are IMHO simply Jokes in the script, The first a bit of
"Sexy" banter with Vesper, the second a bit of "Leg pulling" of an old friend.

Asp9mm

Bond's and atheist. It's quite obvious.

Thunderpussy

"What, he believes all that Ath stuff ?" ( Smith and Jones ) )

Alec 006

Thunderpussy wrote:

"What, he believes all that Ath stuff ?" ( Smith and Jones ) )

Aah good old Smith and Jones )

Strangeways

Asp9mm wrote:

Bond's and atheist. It's quite obvious.

I would tend to agree here.
Hmmmmmm, never thought I would see us debating religion on this site!
Just hope this isn't a can of worms.

Thunderpussy

-{ Keep Bond away from religion and politics.

Charmed & Dangerous

I can't recall offhand but I assume Bond and Tracey get married in a church in OHMSS - certainly they are dressed for church. And in Skyfall we see the Bond family chapel. So Bond at least pays lip service to religion and was brought up that way.

Thunderpussy

There is a deleted scene from LTK with Bond playing a tambourine
Out side The Bluewater shopping centre & handing out leaflets. )

Barbel

...but Higgins persuaded them to delete it, since it was Dalton's best scene.

Thunderpussy

) ) )

Charmed & Dangerous

) )
Dalton looks good in orange too )

Thunderpussy

When was he at Guantanamo ? )

AlphaOmegaSin

I think Religion should be kept out of the Bond Series, but that's my Opinion though -{

chrisisall

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

I think Religion should be kept out of the Bond Series, but that's my Opinion though -{

Yes, religion should be avoided religiously.

Thunderpussy

Agreed, my belief system is to avoid belief systems !

chrisisall

Thunderpussy wrote:

Agreed, my belief system is to avoid belief systems !

I don't have a system myself; I have a way.

"I have a way? Is that better than a plan?"- Malcolm Reynolds

AlphaOmegaSin

Where there's a Will, there's a Way )

Thunderpussy

You might have a Whey, but if you have any Curds as well
Keep an eye out for spiders !

AlphaOmegaSin

What about fat Women? )

Thunderpussy

) nothing wrong with BBW {[]
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ApNp4L1H3vs

superado

Regarding the religious views of the James Bond character, Raymond Benson in his JB Bedside Companion highlights this interesting aspect of Bond as hinted by his thoughts and comments throughout the books. In short, Bond believes in right and wrong, Good vs. Evil and his role to uphold good with a sense and worldview of greater forces at work in the progression of history. It is said that what 96% or so of all humans have in common is a belief in something greater at work in what we consider the material, so that one would actually need to make a conscious effort to become an Atheist.

What does this have to do with movie Bond, you ask? In the movies I don't think that it's mere revenge or some motivation of professional loyalty that drives Bond, but it's this deeper sense of mission and purpose. Otherwise, Bond would exhibit an obvious nihilistic attitude and behavior in the way he is portrayed (I think Connery's Bond comes closest to being nihilistic, though he does have the sense of mission and believes evil men must be stopped). This is speaking strictly in terms of character development! Admiration for Bond's "cool factor" had been established from the beginning, but the producers have also purposely written a reasonable amount of depth into the character so we can sympathize with him and I think this began to be more obvious with Tracy's death, then we see some softening of Bond during RM's later movies in which he's sage-like at times. Then with TD going forward to the present with DC, emotional, introspective Bond is in full swing. Does this mean that Bond is religious? Not necessarily so, or at least he's not actively religious but I believe that there's a level of spirituality in his consciousness, at least in how the scriptwriters have depicted him to be. Again, what I'm saying is strictly about character development, which is purposefully done in good scripts.

With DC, I think his character development is the most interesting in this regard; you see him as very soulful and without his armor, his emotions are on his sleeves. But when he's hurt and betrayed, he puts up a front of indifference (like when he unceremoniously lugged Rene's body into the dumpster) though his soulfulness has not fully died and is actually resolved by the end of QoS. Unlike all the other arguments that DC is Fleming's Bond that I think do not fly, these are the aspects of DC's portrayal, his vulnernabilities, self-doubt and introspection, that remind me of some facets of the Bond character in Fleming's books.

Number24

I used to believe in nihilism ......

Blackleiter

superado wrote:

Regarding the religious views of the James Bond character, Raymond Benson in his JB Bedside Companion highlights this interesting aspect of Bond as hinted by his thoughts and comments throughout the books. In short, Bond believes in right and wrong, Good vs. Evil and his role to uphold good with a sense and worldview of greater forces at work in the progression of history. It is said that what 96% or so of all humans have in common is a belief in something greater at work in what we consider the material, so that one would actually need to make a conscious effort to become an Atheist.

What does this have to do with movie Bond, you ask? In the movies I don't think that it's mere revenge or some motivation of professional loyalty that drives Bond, but it's this deeper sense of mission and purpose. Otherwise, Bond would exhibit an obvious nihilistic attitude and behavior in the way he is portrayed (I think Connery's Bond comes closest to being nihilistic, though he does have the sense of mission and believes evil men must be stopped). This is speaking strictly in terms of character development! Admiration for Bond's "cool factor" had been established from the beginning, but the producers have also purposely written a reasonable amount of depth into the character so we can sympathize with him and I think this began to be more obvious with Tracy's death, then we see some softening of Bond during RM's later movies in which he's sage-like at times. Then with TD going forward to the present with DC, emotional, introspective Bond is in full swing. Does this mean that Bond is religious? Not necessarily so, or at least he's not actively religious but I believe that there's a level of spirituality in his consciousness, at least in how the scriptwriters have depicted him to be. Again, what I'm saying is strictly about character development, which is purposefully done in good scripts.

With DC, I think his character development is the most interesting in this regard; you see him as very soulful and without his armor, his emotions are on his sleeves. But when he's hurt and betrayed, he puts up a front of indifference (like when he unceremoniously lugged Rene's body into the dumpster) though his soulfulness has not fully died and is actually resolved by the end of QoS. Unlike all the other arguments that DC is Fleming's Bond that I think do not fly, these are the aspects of DC's portrayal, his vulnernabilities, self-doubt and introspection, that remind me of some facets of the Bond character in Fleming's books.

Nice analysis! -{

superado

Thanks, BL!

superado

Number24 wrote:

I used to believe in nihilism ......

Don't quit, it might deserve a 2nd chance! )

Gassy Man

I suppose it depends on the religion. Some, for instance, don't seem to see a conflict between the tenets of love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, beat your swords into plow shares, etc., and sleeping around, killing people for a living, and taking pleasure in the dispatching of enemies. I suspect Bond may have some latent religious identity that is more the product of his culture than any significant personal investment, but I'd have an easier time seeing him as agnostic.

broadshoulder

in the 12 books the religion isn't mentioned.

How do you do the job he does and remains religious?

At heart he's an atheist. But wouldn't have time for proffessional atheists (ie Dawkins).He'd be equally scathing.

He goes through life happily without god.

always shaken

Im sure if Bond had gone to Eton ,and said he wasn't a Christian, didn't believe in the all powerful white middle class god ,
he would have been flogged every day until he did .And also as a serving naval officer ,it would have been God ,Queen (King) country and all that . Is there any mention of Bond celebrating Christmas ? if so theres your answer

superado

Gassy Man wrote:

I suppose it depends on the religion. Some, for instance, don't seem to see a conflict between the tenets of love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, beat your swords into plow shares, etc., and sleeping around, killing people for a living, and taking pleasure in the dispatching of enemies. I suspect Bond may have some latent religious identity that is more the product of his culture than any significant personal investment, but I'd have an easier time seeing him as agnostic.

I think that makes a lot of sense. As a product of his upbringing, he must have some inkling or awareness that he tucks away in his mind of something out there, maybe even very vague notions of the Judeo-Christian god despite his actively post-modern mode of thinking.

broadshoulder wrote:

in the 12 books the religion isn't mentioned.

How do you do the job he does and remains religious?

At heart he's an atheist. But wouldn't have time for proffessional atheists (ie Dawkins).He'd be equally scathing.

He goes through life happily without god.

By that logic all soldiers past and present, including Crusaders in the Middle Age, are/were atheists!

As Gassy Man mentioned, closer reading of the books show that Bond was more of an agnostic vs. that on an atheist as reflected in his philosophies and the fact that he does give deference to the Judeo-Christian beliefs of his (and Mathis’) Western culture, whereas an atheist would denounce all of that outright. In CR, ch. 20, “The Nature of Evil,” Bond enters the philosophic and religious realm to rationalize on the ethics of killing to the point of considering the higher purpose Le Chiffre serves in the world. In fairness, Bond mentions God and the Devil more in philosophical terms when exploring the interplay of Good and Evil for the purposes of achieving an equilibrium, which would be contrary to a concept of a random universe. Then in GF, ch. 16, Bond muses how it would be like in heaven when past and present finally get to meet, hardly the thought process an aheist would have.

Going back to movie Bond, I was just thinking how the SF filmmakers so obviously used religious themes (Christological imagry has been done since they began making movies, typically to affect viewers' cultural psyche). The beginning sequence when he was shot and was drawn from the depths alluded to resurrection, a theme used before in YOLT, both the novel and movie. Then of course, the showdown between Silva with Bond and M takes place in a chapel…very religious, lending a very epic feel of the movie's climax (whether or Bond himself was religious).

Thunderpussy

" God didn't make Rambo ........... I did !". )