Bond's film ethnicity/national identity

Gassy Man

Pardon me if this has been answered before, but I didn't see anything specific when I did a search.

What is Bond's film ethnicity/national identity? We know that Fleming eventually suggested Bond was half Scots and half Swiss, but until the Craig era, I don't recall any onscreen confirmation (and even then, the Craig films reimagine). The only references I've seen on film are that Bond is British or English.

Now, one's ethnic identity does not have to be the same as one's national identity, but I don't recall any onscreen confirmation that Bond was anything but English except that he has been played by actors of different ethnic/national backgrounds. But in similar fashion, Asian actors of different ethnic backgrounds routinely play characters who are different (a person of Japanese ancestry playing a North Korean, for instance, as is the case of Harold Sakata), so I don't know that that alone speaks to the character. Could any caucasian actor therefore play Bond so long as he "looks and sounds" the part, regardless of ethnicity/national identity?

Barbel

James Bond is British.

This includes English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish (geographically- don't get into the politics), plus many small islands (eg Isle Of Man).

Ian Fleming specifically defined Bond as having a Scots father and a Swiss mother. The films have been vague on this point until Skyfall.

The problem is that too many people do not realise that the words "English" and "British" are not synonyms. Since most people in the British Isles speak English, it is too often assumed that we are all English- just like James Bond isn't.

The film series more often follows Fleming than contradicts him (eg, Bond claims to have gone to Cambridge in YOLT and TSWLM), usually in minor details. If anyone can suggest a better source than Ian Fleming for details about James Bond, please go ahead.

chrisisall

Bond is a UK-only role (That Aussie fellah being the mistake that taught them the lesson). :v

Thunderpussy

Barbel wrote :

James Bond is British.

This includes English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish (geographically- don't get into the politics), plus many small islands (eg Isle Of Man).

Ian Fleming specifically defined Bond as having a Scots father and a Swiss mother. The films have been vague on this point until Skyfall.

The problem is that too many people do not realise that the words "English" and "British" are not synonyms. Since most people in the British Isles speak English, it is too often assumed that we are all English- just like James Bond isn't.

The film series more often follows Fleming than contradicts him (eg, Bond claims to have gone to Cambridge in YOLT and TSWLM), usually in minor details. If anyone can suggest a better source than Ian Fleming for details about James Bond, please go ahead.

+1 {[]

Gassy Man

Is Bond ever identified specifically as English, though, onscreen? I know he's frequently described as a British agent. I would say that in the U.S., the distinction between the two terms is lost on most people.

Still, if Asians can be portrayed by any number of varying ethnicities or nationalities, couldn't any white person essentially play Bond so long as he looks and sounds the part?

Gassy Man

Let me amend that and say the actor does not even have to be white, though that is what we have seen so far.

Barbel

Bond claims to be English in AVTAK when playing a part. Melina assumes him to be English in FYEO, and he doesn't contradict her (understandably- both for onscreen reasons and off). There may be other examples.

BUT an English accent is still not necessary for an actor to play Bond, whether he be Burt Reynolds or not. Brosnan and Lazenby don't sound English, and most famously neither does Connery.

Gassy Man

Ah, very good. I should also say I should have typed "British" in my original post rather than "English."

Barbel

Thank you.

Gassy Man

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Virgil37

Barbel wrote:

BUT an English accent is still not necessary for an actor to play Bond, whether he be Burt Reynolds or not

An american accent would be out of place for Bond.

Barbel

Naturally. Bond is British.

chrisisall

Barbel wrote:

Naturally. Bond is British.

A stiff-arse one? ?:)

welshboy78

One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

"For England James"
'For England Alec"

I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British

chrisisall

welshboy78 wrote:

One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

"For England James"
'For England Alec"

I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British

I thought it was "No, For ME." ?:)

Barbel

chrisisall wrote:

welshboy78 wrote:

One thing which bugged me was in Goldeneye

"For England James"
'For England Alec"

I think EON did indeed forget for a while that Bond was NOT English but British

I thought it was "No, For ME." ?:)

It's both- the former during the PTS, the latter at the climax.

Thunderpussy

I think for most non British ( unlucky people ) interchange
British for English. Also I think England sounds better than
Britain. " For Britain, James" or in Spy " so does Britain" ?
England sounds better to me. )

AlphaOmegaSin

In a Nutshell, Bond is British -{

Thunderpussy

I also think he's a great role model for the UK as ( apart from Lazenby)
He's been played by all of the four home nations
English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh. -{

chrisisall

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

In a Nutshell, Bond is British -{

You are British? I speak British. Who is your floor?

AlphaOmegaSin

) )

Thunderpussy

I hate it when people abuse our language and don't speak
It good like I does ! Or post thing like what I has wrote . )
( Morecambe and Wise -{ )

DEFIANT 74205

Gassy Man wrote:

What is Bond's film ethnicity/national identity? We know that Fleming eventually suggested Bond was half Scots and half Swiss, but until the Craig era, I don't recall any onscreen confirmation (and even then, the Craig films reimagine). The only references I've seen on film are that Bond is British or English.

Ethnicity? Anglo-Saxon white Caucasian. This is never in doubt.

As far as his nationality is concerned, Bond is British. We do know that he had a Scottish father and a Swiss mother, and that he was educated at Eton, or at least, was, until he was expelled.

Gassy Man wrote:

Now, one's ethnic identity does not have to be the same as one's national identity, but I don't recall any onscreen confirmation that Bond was anything but English except that he has been played by actors of different ethnic/national backgrounds.

Not sure about different ethnic backgrounds - I think you'll find that all of the actors to play Bond have been of white Anglo-Saxon descent. But I'll grant that the actors have had different nationalities. However, all but two of those were British - Brosnan, being Irish, and Lazenby, an Australian.

Gassy Man wrote:

Could any caucasian actor therefore play Bond so long as he "looks and sounds" the part, regardless of ethnicity/national identity?

Theoretically, yes. But I just cannot see any American actor that would be able to play the role of Bond. James Bond is a British institution, and I do think that EON should support the British arts industry by employing predominantly British actors to star in Bond films, and British artists to sing the theme song. I can settle for a non-British actor playing Bond if there was no British actor at the time that make the cut.

However, given the number of British actors' names that have been floating about as a successor to Craig, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.

Gassy Man wrote:

Still, if Asians can be portrayed by any number of varying ethnicities or nationalities, couldn't any white person essentially play Bond so long as he looks and sounds the part?

They can, but as indicated above, I firmly believe that preference should be given to British actors.

Gassy Man wrote:

Let me amend that and say the actor does not even have to be white, though that is what we have seen so far.

No, no, no. A thousand times no! This is not negotiable, as far as I'm concerned!

superado

Nowadays, you have actors with different backgrounds playing Americans, like many of the cast members of the Walking Dead (I count at least 3 Brits and 1 New Zealander) and 1 American actor playing a Brit comes to mind at this moment, Wes Bentley in Four Feathers. Ooops, I forgot about Robert Downey, Jr. playing Sherlock Holmes, which shows that audience acceptance can go both ways across the Atlantic.

But with Bond, it seems it is an entirely different situation, a different phenomenon althogether in terms of audience perception and scale of pop culture notoriety. It could be argued that stretching casting limits to include a Commonwealth actor, Lazenby, might have gone against him in terms of public acceptance. For similar reasons, it is unwritten but IMO unnegotiable in the public mindset that Bond must be a heterosexual, caucasian British man and I dare the producers (if they would listen to me) to cast anyone else outside of this criteria (remember the rumor about casting ER's Goran Visnjic?)

osris

I could accept an American actor playing bond if he could do a plausible English or anglicised Scottish accent (like Connery did in his first three Bond films). I say “English” as there is no such thing as a British accent.

Peppermill

I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

Number24

I think people in and outside Britain expect the actor to be British. Most good actors with a good war for languages can speak British English, but that's not really the point. Brosnan is British - Ireland us one of the British Isles.

bond2002

Peppermill wrote:

I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

Daltons accent slips a few times in license to kill

Barbel

osris wrote:

I could accept an American actor playing bond if he could do a plausible English or anglicised Scottish accent (like Connery did in his first three Bond films). I say “English” as there is no such thing as a British accent.

No, you say "English" because you are mistaken. See post 2, above. Britain has many accents, not just one, so to that extent you're correct in saying that there is no such thing as "a" British accent but not all of them are suitable for playing James Bond- some of those accents are English, some Scottish, etc.

Barbel

Peppermill wrote:

I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

The innumerable amount of different English accents come from within England, not Britain. See post 2 above.

I speak with a mild Scottish accent, and I'm a stiff-arse Brit.

osris

Peppermill wrote:

I would think that there is no such thing as an Enlish accent given that the language itself is Enlish and that there is an innumerable amount of different Elnglish accents; both within Britain as abroad. It is like saying that I speak Dutch with a Dutch accent.

Mancunian is an English accent but maybe not appropriate for Bond.

Correct, I should have said English Received Pronunciation.